German racism raising its ugly head again -- "PEGIDA"

[Astaroth]

The far-right in Germany is no longer a tiny minority group, easily identified by their skinhead-boots-unemployed look and their open and crude racism.

Instead, the far right is on the rise, this time masking its goals more cleverly, hiding behind what they claim are "normal citizens" and trying to find a way into the very fabric of society.

The AfD is a symptom of that, but "PEGIDA" (=Patriotische Europäer gegen die Islamisierung des Abendlandes = Patriotic Europeans Against Islamisation of the West) is an even worse example. In short, a group of thousands of open neo-Nazis, criminals, 1950s (or should I say 40's?) reactionaries and other idiots has been marching through Dresden, Saxony a few times now, always shouting about the evil immigrants, evil Islam and the evil "mainstream media".

The funniest part of this sad story? Dresden is probably the one big city in Germany with the least amount of both Muslims and immigrants. Also, there's a certain irony to East Germans complaining about immigrants when the GDR joined the FRG just 25 years ago and was welcomed with open arms, despite their relative poverty and how much money it cost.

Aside from that, it is not so surprising that this movement is gaining traction in Saxony (whereas all the copy-movements in other big cities are essentially just a few hundred people and/or are horribly outnumbered by the opposition), seeing that Saxony is already infamous for its relatively large amount of NPD and other far-right activities.

Link: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ristmas-carols

[Mangalore]

The annoying thing is that what they yell under the guise of "Someone finally has to dare say this!" is actually pretty mainstream in the sense that pretty much everyone in germany except those 5000 Salafist would subscribe to it. And as you say germany only has a refugee problem in the sense that for whatever reason we are incapable of handling them despite the influx neither being unexpected nor extremely big.

[Mementomoridc]

You two would love living in America.

[pajomife]

Was comfortable in the past when "normal" people could proclaim that only a couple of lunatics were racists.Now and even without any true economic crises,but seeing that exotic people have more rights than the locals,someone call it positive discrimination,they reveal their human nature,no matter all that social engineering.

[sumskilz]

Is this only racist because we're calling it racist or is there something I'm missing? I've never heard of this PEGIDA before today, but if the video in the OP's article and their manifesto according to Wikipedia are representative, then I don't get the allegation.

[Aymer de Valence]

Was this even a surprise to anyone, seriously?

[Astaroth]

Is this only racist because we're calling it racist or is there something I'm missing? I've never heard of this PEGIDA before today, but if the video in the OP's article and their manifesto according to Wikipedia are representative, then I don't get the allegation.

Neo-Nazism 2014 -- 101: when in direct contact with the press or releasing manifestos, try to downplay your racist views and wishes. The skinhead-boots-hooligans are not the problem, the "we are only concerned citizens from the heart of society"-type racists are.

If you are genuinely interested in the reactionary and Neo-Nazi background of Pegida, try to research the people who organise it, the role Neo-Nazis play, the things the participants say to the press or shout and their fascist behaviour towards the free press.

[Kraut]

Aside from that, it is not so surprising that this movement is gaining traction in Saxony (whereas all the copy-movements in other big cities are essentially just a few hundred people and/or are horribly outnumbered by the opposition), seeing that Saxony is already infamous for its relatively large amount of NPD and other far-right activities.

On the good News side, 12000 People have taken the street in Munich yesterday for a Demonstration against PEGIDA.
Fun Facts:
Dresden has about 5% foreigners living there. Munich has about 25% (no typo).
Oh, and the Bavarians are considered "conservative" and "right wing" generally

[sumskilz]

Neo-Nazism 2014 -- 101: when in direct contact with the press or releasing manifestos, try to downplay your racist views and wishes. The skinhead-boots-hooligans are not the problem, the "we are only concerned citizens from the heart of society"-type racists are.

Okay, what are their racists views and wishes, and how do you know them?

If you are genuinely interested in the reactionary and Neo-Nazi background of Pegida, try to research the people who organise it, the role Neo-Nazis play, the things the participants say to the press or shout and their fascist behaviour towards the free press.

I only got as far as the Wikipedia and the article linked in the article you posted, before I asked the question.

When I see statements like this...

Any expression of racial hatred from Germany is bound to be alarming, but every nation has its political fringe. That the rallies are well-dressed and called a “stroll” is neither here nor there. Comments made by participants might be arrestable offences in Britain, but the sentiments are familiar to fringe politics everywhere, and laws and arrests will never curb them.

I start to wonder, because no one is saying what the comments are, and I tend to find people being arrested over comments more disturbing than people openly speaking their mind.

[Påsan]

Obviously another part of the right-wing surge that is sweeping Europe.


Protesting immigration policies does not make you racist though. Protesting specific people being present in the country, kinda does.

[athanaric]

Is this only racist because we're calling it racist or is there something I'm missing? I've never heard of this PEGIDA before today, but if the video in the OP's article and their manifesto according to Wikipedia are representative, then I don't get the allegation.

It's because the OP is a fact-free rant, as was to be expected.

[Exarch]

the germans have a right to decide who gets into their country, full stop, and no amount of Holocaust shaming si going to change that.

[Mangalore]

Is this only racist because we're calling it racist or is there something I'm missing? I've never heard of this PEGIDA before today, but if the video in the OP's article and their manifesto according to Wikipedia are representative, then I don't get the allegation.

I wouldn't call them anything in particular but a confused mess. They essentially state truisms and imply everyone is conspiring to suppress a truth virtually everyone is sharing. I would consider that conspiracy theory level of BS more of a problem than any other factual problem and them getting hijacked by the NPD and affiliates who finally found a rhetoric that doesn't sound racist when its implication certainly is.

[Stavroforos]

Neo-Nazism 2014 -- 101: when in direct contact with the press or releasing manifestos, try to downplay your racist views and wishes. The skinhead-boots-hooligans are not the problem, the "we are only concerned citizens from the heart of society"-type racists are.

If you are genuinely interested in the reactionary and Neo-Nazi background of Pegida, try to research the people who organise it, the role Neo-Nazis play, the things the participants say to the press or shout and their fascist behaviour towards the free press.

Perhaps instead of starting a thread and about supposed racists and then telling people to do research when they ask you why they're racist, you should present that in your OP, since otherwise it just seems like a rant.

In any case, it can be easy to label anti-immigrant movements as racist, but that usually doesn't manage to express the whole truth. I do however believe that all anti-immigrant movements are bound to have some racist elements in them, even if they are not admitted to. The fact that there might be racism though doesn't discount the opinion, especially if it's shared by many.

[Exarch]

it's kinda funny actually; all this time white europeans wanted to prove how civilised they were and how tolerant they were but unfortunately they happened to live right next door to the middle east which was going through a massive baby boom and the equivalent of the 30 yrs' War.

[priam11]

Perhaps instead of starting a thread and about supposed racists and then telling people to do research when they ask you why they're racist, you should present that in your OP, since otherwise it just seems like a rant.

And Stav just hammered this over the left field fence.

[pajomife]

it's kinda funny actually; all this time white europeans wanted to prove how civilised they were and how tolerant they were but unfortunately they happened to live right next door to the middle east which was going through a massive baby boom and the equivalent of the 30 yrs' War.

I said it before,this is the end of Roman empire part II .They start to came without any noise,now that they are almost 10% of some Europeans countries population, they start to demand many privileges,and impose some of their religious laws.Sharia4UK is not a myth.
In few decades they will impose theirs laws and way of life,because they have much more determination than the average peaceful European,is that to many years without any war and any belief,besides having fun and material goods,transformed the average European in a nullity.

[IZob]

I said it before,this is the end of Roman empire part II .They start to came without any noise,now that they are almost 10% of some Europeans countries population, they start to demand many privileges,and impose some of their religious laws.Sharia4UK is not a myth.
In few decades they will impose theirs laws and way of life,because they have much more determination than the average peaceful European,is that to many years without any war and any belief,besides having fun and material goods,transformed the average European in a nullity.

I find that hard to believe when at the same time there are groups such as PEGIDA emerging.

Besides this wont last forever. ISIS will eventually be destroyed, the fear of radical Islam will diminish and middle eastern immigration will have hopefully slowed as people return to their country.

[Diocle]

Taking part to a manifestation against islamization in Europe, is not being Nazis, I didn't see any Nazi symbol, I didn't see any Nazi banner, I didn't see any Nazi Manifest, what I've seen is a large group of European citizens publically expressing their opinion of common sense and widely shared in any country of Europe. Those women and men in that place are not Nazis, they are just citizens with a little of brain still working into their heads!

Do you want true Nazis? Search for ISIS on Google, and you'lll find thousands of Islamo-Fascists and Nazis largely feeded by some well known Western country and by a criminal and idiotic European policy.

[Tiberios]

The AfD is a symptom of that, but "PEGIDA" (=Patriotische Europäer gegen die Islamisierung des Abendlandes = Patriotic Europeans Against Islamisation of the West) is an even worse example. In short, a group of thousands of open neo-Nazis, criminals, 1950s (or should I say 40's?) reactionaries and other idiots has been marching through Dresden, Saxony a few times now, always shouting about the evil immigrants, evil Islam and the evil "mainstream media".

This is exactly the kind of blanket statements that, IMO, further the rise of both so called far right parties and real far right parties. Instead of accepting that not everyone consider liberal immigration policies a good thing, they are simply demonised, or at the very least, belittled as being idiots or racists. Obviously xenophobic and even outright racist elements will always be part of such movements, but that does not mean that everyone are racists.

Sweden is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Despite decades of belittling and outright accusations of facism, nazism and racism - as recent as when the current Swedish prime Minister was forced to announce possible elections - an anti immigrant parti has become the third largest in Parliament and 45 % of Swedes want to limit the number of refugees being accepted into the country. Are we actually going to seriously claim that almost half the Swedish population have become Nazis, racists and idiots in a couple of decades?

I'm not defending either the PEGIDA, AfD or the Swedish Democrats, but I am opposed to such blanket statements about people holding perfectly legitimate political views. It simply does nothing to further any constructive discussion of the issue.