The Battle of four and something armies from very far away indeed.

[Prof]

And by doing that they added a plothole to add a scene that wasn't even in the book.

[conon394]

Actually more since uber ninja orcs have attacked both the Elves and Lake Town - you might think that both would be well unsurprised by their interest in now Dragon-less Lonely Mountain and thus not be surprised. Nor I think is there room for Thorin's greed, he has been followed by his old advisory for two movies - he rather needs help ASAP.

[Prof]

Well...they are not as uber ninja as gravity-defying Legolas.

[Condottiere 40K]

Elves are supposedly lighter than humans and dwarves heavier, comparatively.

It's when they walk on water, that they may have jumped the shark.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Despite my not wanting to go spend money on this my mom wanted to see it and out we went.
Yeah it wasn't god awful. It was okay I guess but very disappointing. I can't help but think that all three films needed better editing especially to piece these all together. I think the book itself provided much of the issue for a screen adaptation. Consider that the book was only ONE book and LoTR is THREE books. The Hobbit could just as easily been made as two books and it is this poor management of time that the films tend to feel so slow and boring sometimes with overstretched scenes. The book in itself was rather vague at times and not as descriptive in certain parts as opposed to the LoTR trilogy and it had a rather small straight forward story. This provides lots of nothing to the screen when stretched out for three films.

There was an overreliance of CGI which made quite a few scenes look pretty bad (like some early 2000's CGI scenes). While I was generally impressed with the dragon I think the dragon wasn't as impressive as in the second film. Fine I suppose since he was only in it for the very beginning, but why was he in this at all? He should have just died in the second movie. Also the second and third movies had a serious lack of Bilbo (albeit this one had a bot more than the second). The acting, pacing and amount of time spent on Bilbo didn't seem like enough. I myself was not bothered by Legolas and Tauriel but rather the general lack of direction with both these characters in this series. They could have stayed but what the heck was their purpose? Find a purpose for a character before you shove them in there! Since I am so incredibly racist I will have to frown upon Dwarf-Elf interracial couples for being utterly pointless. Seriously, no point other than because we felt like it (this wasn't even in the book either especially since Tauriel was made up by the movie).
Speaking of things made up by the movie the Sauron scene was a bit disappointing. Sauron in itself is fine, I won't that it wasn't in the book. This is where the book screws up. Gandalf goes off because there is something he needs to do with some Necromancer or some crap. It was cool to see Elrond, Galadriel, Radagast and Saruman but I recall the book mentioned two other wizards as well, where were they (also Lord Celeborn, the other elf from FoTR wasn't in this which is odd since this is a magical reunion)? PJ sought to correct this inconsistency in the book but I have to say it was not really what I expected. I wanted a larger magical battle to be perfectly honest.

Another inconsistency of the book were the many characters. Beorn does jack all in the book other than when he helped the Dwarves in the first movie and in the final battle at Erebor (he does more or less jack all in the film as well but I think his scenes are actually less in the films!). There were 14 dwarves which were basically clichéd Dwarf characters (cause Tolkien is racist). The only ones I recall were Kili and Fili, the old guy and obviously Thorin Oakenshield. The film allows me to remember an additional dwarf which was the tall one that used a hammer. None of the other Dwarves I ever cared about and the film does not fix this issue. Thorin Oakenshield however seems to be less badass as the films progress and this is mind boggling. But it is made worse by the film which branches the final battle off into smaller fights and only really gives us like a really zoomed out battle scene. I naturally expected just one giant battle where the Five armies could fight it out. Especially dumb was separating Thorin, Fili, Kili and Dwalin as this did not seem to help Thorin's decreasing badassery (it took him like forever just to beat Azog, where in a battle with tonnes of orcs coming at you this would be understandable and just add more to the visuals). As a whole I was totally disappointed with this last part. I did not like the way they handled Thorin at the end and for some reason he felt a lot more what I expected Thorin to be in the first movie rather than in this one (of the many LoTR characters Thorin has to be my favourite probably). Thorin lacks a lot of development for the type of character he is supposed to be and what we get is him acting really weird, I want to call it overacting but it also appeared like underacting (like the Smeagle thing but in this case it feels more like he did a little bit of drugs). The death scenes for a couple characters were also handled rather poorly. The way in which they died made they seem less of what they should have been. By cutting every little group into its own fight the deaths were not as impressive nor were the reactions to these deaths. Compare being thrown off a cliff by Azog in some random corner to an epic King Théoden death in a field of battle, that's literally the difference. Also the deaths didn't have good pacing or good reactions because ing no one was there to see them and they felt rushed so I could not feel. The first film at least let me feel something when the Dwarves were expelled from Erebor and Moria. The last two films made me feel nothing. Not even when Elves died or when the people of Dale were being slaughtered and this juxtaposition with say Sean Bean's death or the battle in Two Towers is not good at all.

The book also barely has Elrond and some guy called Bard who is a descendent of some king and randomly in the book he is suddenly elevated to protagonist status by having him kill the dragon and lead the people of Dale to Erebor where they fight the orcs. I am glad they expanded more on him in the films but he cut some time from other characters and this wouldn't be a problem except that he wasn't doing too much. Even in the final battle I would have preferred if they had him in one giant battle with everyone else rather than constantly cutting away to see what everyone is doing in random corners. These cutaways I think ruined what was supposed to be the epic battle but were also distracting as all hell. They suffered from Phantom Menace syndrome where the ending had four things going on at the same time (Legolas and Tauriel fight, 4 dwarves and a Hobbit fight, Dwarf army fights, Elf army fights, Men of Dale fight, Thorin fights Azog, unnecessary and disruptive comedy routine with the dumb Alfred guy). This was so annoying that I actually had to question the sanity of the editing people and whoever decided to shoot this entire battle as separate scenes in separate locations. But now that I recall I think Gandalf didn't do enough in the last battle either. I find most of the film somewhat forgettable actually.

Overall this film felt really rushed and not what an ending should be; it did not give the closure nor the satisfaction that Return of the King had. More importantly though it felt really rushed in some points and way too slow in some others. Although I might consider it better than Desolation of Smaug I cannot honestly say it was better than An Unexpected Journey or any of the other Lord of the Rings Films. The things it did right are equal to the things that could have been really good but were poorly executed.

[Wulfburk]

I've not seen any of the Hobbit films yet, despite loving the LOTR trilogy. From what I'm reading here, and read elsewhere, would it be accurate to say the Hobbit trilogy essentially suffered a case of 'Lucas' syndrome, ala the Star Wars prequels?

Almost, but thats just because the Star Wars prequels are all way better in relation to the original SW trilogy than the Hobbit trilogy compared to the LOTR trilogy.

All 3 hobbit films were crap and had almost nothing memorable. This last one was the worst IMO. The LAMEST orc/goblin in LOTR is miles ahead of any of these CGI orcs/goblins in the hobbit. And because it is all bad CGI the combat looks real poor, and too much decapitation that even ISIL would get annoyed.

[Derpy Hooves]

Almost, but thats just because the Star Wars prequels are all way better in relation to the original SW trilogy than the Hobbit trilogy compared to the LOTR trilogy.

All 3 hobbit films were crap and had almost nothing memorable. This last one was the worst IMO. The LAMEST orc/goblin in LOTR is miles ahead of any of these CGI orcs/goblins in the hobbit. And because it is all bad CGI the combat looks real poor, and too much decapitation that even ISIL would get annoyed.

​Are you saying that the Star Wars prequels were better than the original trilogy?

[pacifism]

I watched the Battle of Five Armies today. I wasn’t horribly disappointed because my expectations were so low they’re next to dinosaur bones (redlettermedia could make a great Hobbit trilogy review if the guys could spend the time learning the lore and beauty of Middle-Earth).

It would be pretty easy to write pages pointing out every serious deviation the Hobbit trilogy had compared to the book and all the plot holes, every butchered character and uncalled for additional content, but I’m going to ignore that – or just realize most of you are already fully aware of it.

The Hobbit trilogy has chronic George Lucas Syndrome. And it’s terminal. The only acting I could consistently relate to was done by Martin Freeman (Bilbo); I think he did a really good job in his role. Besides that, I had more emotional investment in just how exactly they ruined the characters more than the situations they were actually in onscreen. I couldn’t relate at all to Thranduil’s sudden decision that he was done fighting, Alfrid the Not-In-The-Book and his drag/blatant aversion to putting himself in any kind of risk, or Thorin’s painfully obvious mental health issues and his sudden recovery. Not in the way I could to relate to moral battles in The Lord of the Rings movies by Frodo and Gollum, or Legolas and Gimli’s growth from wary adversaries to friends.

Other than that, the Hobbit trilogy lacked the subtlety and attention to detail that the Lord of the Rings movies had. The Hobbit does have a lighter tone than The Lord of the Rings, but surreal humor like an elf surprised that he can bleed or a troll dumb enough to pretend he’s a battering ram can only get you so far. GussieFinkNottle expressed the overreliance on CGI, the 48 fps, and lack of plausibility really well, so I won’t go into that either.

Sometimes sticking to actual sets, simple yet clever special effects, good characters, and trying to stick to an already-popular story is much better than actors doing flips and computer-generated backgrounds and battles without extras included. Here’s a hint: The Lord of the Rings movies did the former and the Hobbit movies did the latter.

[Condottiere 40K]

It could be that the 48 fps is the most important aspect, as they start testing out new film-making techniques, financed by the franchise.

I tend to think that with the budget available, they might have taken a better effort with the scripts.

[Mhaedros]

Elves are supposedly lighter than humans and dwarves heavier, comparatively.

It's when they walk on water, that they may have jumped the shark.

That's very much an assumption and one that makes little to no sense. Why would an elf that's the same length and body-structure as a human weigh less than a human? And don't bring the whole "Legolas walking on snow" scenario into it, if Legolas weighed less than the other members of the Fellowship, he would have been snatched by the winds. Basically no elves would be able to become seamen without first attaching lead weights to their feet.

So gravity-defying Legolas makes no sense however you look at it, and it's just more proof of PJ's incompetence.

[gastovski]

So, can we agree that the Hobbit contains worse love story than Twilight?.

[Holger Danske]

That's very much an assumption and one that makes little to no sense. Why would an elf that's the same length and body-structure as a human weigh less than a human? And don't bring the whole "Legolas walking on snow" scenario into it, if Legolas weighed less than the other members of the Fellowship, he would have been snatched by the winds. Basically no elves would be able to become seamen without first attaching lead weights to their feet.

So gravity-defying Legolas makes no sense however you look at it, and it's just more proof of PJ's incompetence.

While I have yet to finish the first book I'm told it's stated that elves are light as feathers, and that you cannot hear them walking around (stuff like that) - so if it is lore then drop the scientific reasoning. Immortal elves aren't really scientific to begin with.

As for the Hobbit trilogy... Meh, I enjoyed LoTR a lot more. Despite Smaugs awesomeness...

@Gastovski
Every love story told (past and future) is better than Twillight, that is an undeniable fact.

[Derpy Hooves]

So, can we agree that the Hobbit contains worse love story than Twilight?.

No. But I will say this about the love story, it reminded me of the fanfic legolas by laura

I will say this. Both Star Wars and Hobbit prequel trilogies were at most half as good as their preceding trilogy, however Hobbit> Star Wars prequels.

[Mhaedros]

While I have yet to finish the first book I'm told it's stated that elves are light as feathers, and that you cannot hear them walking around (stuff like that) - so if it is lore then drop the scientific reasoning. Immortal elves aren't really scientific to begin with.

Unless you can find a quote that say's "elves are lighter than men" all of that is circumstancial (I certainly haven't found any such quotes although I've researched the matter a number of times). Anyone can train to be unheard while walking, and although Tolkien gives this trait to all or most elves and hobbits it doesn't prove elves weigh less than men and assuming they do is a silly thing to do.

[conon394]

While I have yet to finish the first book I'm told it's stated that elves are light as feathers, and that you cannot hear them walking around (stuff like that) - so if it is lore then drop the scientific reasoning. Immortal elves aren't really scientific to begin with.

Elves are quite tall in JJR's world and strong. They are not light it just there 'magic' if you will. Thus they do many things men can't but as JRRT decided it because their 'soul' masters their body more perfectly than that of mortal men and other similar creatures.

Funny thing the Trope of the Hidden Elf kingdom is one thing JRRT kind of inserted in typical fantasy lore via adapting the Seelie myths. And he actually considered how that can be. He is solid that Dwarves - not farmers - are dependent on human trade. So than he had to deal how so many elves could live in tiny hidden communities when they need to eat. And he came up with a good answer one that solves a huge actual problem in the reality of the 21st century- its not production so much as storage that causes lack of food. The Noldor bring grain from the Valar with them and can thus make out of the stalks containers that defy all rot or spoilage or pests. As anyone who has cleaned out a refrigerator can attest - huge bonus.

But in any case again elves are magic not physics. And I agree the snow walking and not being cold does provide the basis for PJ's Legalos surfing on stuff. But he pushes it a bit hard he being son of an Sindar Elf from the first age maybe or second generation and distanced from the Elves of the light, he is not a Noldor lord out of the east from the First Age. The kind of people Elrond wanted to send with the Fellowship rather than 2 more hobbits (and he was right in fact - Gandalf epic fail - or being more or less what Saruman said a user of tools to be thrown away)

[Condottiere 40K]

Meat shields are always useful, but the point was that they were there at crucial moments in the story, their seeming unimportance made them background noise that allowed them to be ignored, and yet their actions were almost predestined, and had an disproportionate effect on the overall outcome.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Thorin didn't even need to go crazy and then get cured. They could have just written it into his character that he was naturally distrustful and greedy. I thought the book kind of got that point across more than once. Shame the writing and acting couldn't have been better. Especially with the limited amount of development for any characters.

In the book they also don't really get this point across (although it was like 5 years since I last read it so I might be wrong), why did that elf king (Thranduil) make a claim to Erebor and the treasure? I get Bard cause his town is gone and the contract thing with Thorin but why Thranduil? He doesn't have a legitimate claim does he, he just wants to grab himself some gold right?

[The Despondent Mind]

Even if there was no Contract Bard IMO could have easily claimed half the treasure, and Thorin could go and himself with an axe.

[Mangalore]

Thorin didn't even need to go crazy and then get cured. They could have just written it into his character that he was naturally distrustful and greedy. I thought the book kind of got that point across more than once. Shame the writing and acting couldn't have been better. Especially with the limited amount of development for any characters.

In the book they also don't really get this point across (although it was like 5 years since I last read it so I might be wrong), why did that elf king (Thranduil) make a claim to Erebor and the treasure? I get Bard cause his town is gone and the contract thing with Thorin but why Thranduil? He doesn't have a legitimate claim does he, he just wants to grab himself some gold right?

In the book I think the elves are on the way to the mountain expecting the treasure to be up for grabs but then do help out the humans substantially and since they can't pay them back Bard makes an agreement on sharing the treasure. I think it's also made clear that also all the treasures of the city of Dale are among Smaugs treasure aka Laketown has a far clearer claim on it since it was stolen from them in the same manner the dwarven treasure was.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Be honest, in this film Thorin was totally just Dollar Store Aragorn but kinda buzzed and grumpy.
When really the setup in the first movie (and the book itself) made him out to be more than that.