[Preview] New Trait System: Realism, Immersity, Diversity and Lore-Accuracy come to Westeros TW

[Elbadruhel]

Don't get your hopes up too much, a masterpiece takes time.

This sounds like it's going to be fantastic Elbadruhel! Good work! Are there still going to be faith-related traits? Such as "Follower of the Seven", "Non-Believer", or "Worships Old Gods". Or has this function been replaced by culture?

Hi,

as u can read in my summary, we will have:

- Religion: I will represent all the religions of Westeros as a trait for the general. All the generals will follow 1 religion. And (as i will explain later in the "Loyalty" section), generals with different religion to his liege could become rebel. Sons will inherit the religion of their fathers. And EVERY RELIGION will give unique bonuses..

I will represent religion ingame with traits. Every general will have 2 religion traits:
- What religion does he follow.
- How much believer he is.

There will be 4 religions: Old Gods, Drowned God, The Seven and R´hllor.
And a general can have 3 different ranks of fanatism: Sceptic, Devout and Fanatic.

As i said in the summary, religion will afect loyalty. In the next way:

Faction Leader | General
Same Religion, Sceptic |||||||||||||||||||||| Sceptical +1 Follower 0 Fanatic -1
Same Religion, Devout ||||||||||||||||||| Sceptical 0 Follower 0 Fanatic 0
Same Religion, Fanatic |||||||||||||||||||||| Sceptical -1 Follower 0 Fanatic +1
Other Religion |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Sceptical -1 Follower -3 Fanatic -5

Religion will affect the Warrior career, in order to a general will have a access to a different bunch of traits depending on what gods he follow:

- The Seven. Knightood: There will be common folk way: Commoner, Hedge Knight and Famous Knight. And noblemen way: Squire, Knight and Famous Knight.
- The Old Gods. Northmen, Northren Warrior and Northren Champion.
- The Drowned God. Ironborn, Ironborn Captain and Iron Fleet Captain.
- Rhllor. Needs work.


In addition to this, they will be special traits related with the religion of the character and the special magic of the world for every religion. Greenseer, see in the flames... etc. But those ones need work.

So yes, i can say to you that i will include religion in game trought traits. Jajaja

Greetings!

[turkay98]

Huge= The Great Jon )

[Elbadruhel]

Yes xD.

As i said i will create a public list in order to all of you could write there the different traits you think a general should have.

For example. Nowadays:

Huge (level 6): Great Jon Umber, Little Jon Umber, Gregor Clegane (The Mountain), Osmund Kettleback, Archibald Yronwood, Lyle Crakehall...

Sturdy (level 5): Sandor Clegane (The Hound), Iron Emmet, Vardis Egen, Ben Bushy (Big Ben), Andrew Estermont, Osfryd Kettleback, Osney Kettleback, Stannis Baratheon, Jacelyn Bywater, Glendon Hewett, Yonh Royce, Aenys Frey, Halder (Stone Head), Victarion Greyjoy, Garlan Tyrell, Renly Baratheon, most Crakehalls...

[dingospo]

why osmund kettleback - huge(lev 6) ? in the books he can't compare with for example sandor clegane(he is level 6)....also victarion is def lev 6...and vardis egen is descriped like a short man

[Straight Up Jumpshot]

Elbadruhel, this sounds like it is going to be fantastic! Thank's very much for all the work you're putting into it.

Merry Christmas!

[Elbadruhel]

why osmund kettleback - huge(lev 6) ? in the books he can't compare with for example sandor clegane(he is level 6)....also victarion is def lev 6...and vardis egen is descriped like a short man

You are wrong, maybe the HBO has make u to confuse? I write that small list just to the post, so a lot of things could be wrong, but, about Osmund im sure, look at this:

Ser Osmund stands six feet six inches, most of it muscle.

About Jon Umber:

Jon Umber is a large man, nearly seven feet tall. He is heavily muscled and is a formidable warrior.

And his son:

Smalljon Umber is nearly as tall as his father and might become taller still. Like his father, he is strongly built.

And here is the Mountain:

Gregor is extremely tall (he is close to eight feet in height). He has "massive shoulders and arms thick as the trunk of small trees."

I have stablished my limits to set a character in one or other rank according to lore. For Huge Strength, he must be tall, more than 1.80 meters or 6 feet and strong.




As you can see, these characters match my requirements objetively.

About Vardis Egen, we know he is strong, heavily built. But as you say, not specially tall, thats the reason he will be just a level 5.

About Victarion, you could be right, he could be a level 6 because is tall and strong. But as i didnt have concrete data i set him at 5. The same happens with sandor and the fact he is smaller than his brother. But i could set bot Victarion and Sandor at level 6, yes.



Level 6. Huge. More than 1.80 or 6 feet. And strong.
Level 5. Sturdy. Sturdy, heavily built, really strong, but less than 1.80 or 6 feet.
Level 4. Strong. A common man, not weak, not small. Good warriors with a common body. Like hardly most warriors, Jaime Lannister.
Level 3. Weak. A common man just a bit weak, known for being not specially good fighting, maybe small. Like littlefinger.
Level 2. Gaunt. A man specially weak. He is known for being defeated easily. A joke of a man. Like Samwell Tarly.
Level 1. Dwarf. Nothing to say xD. Just Tyrion at the start.

[turkay98]

You are wrong, maybe the HBO has make u to confuse? I write that small list just to the post, so a lot of things could be wrong, but, about Osmund im sure, look at this:



About Jon Umber:



And his son:



And here is the Mountain:



I have stablished my limits to set a character in one or other rank according to lore. For Huge Strength, he must be tall, more than 1.80 meters or 6 feet and strong.




As you can see, these characters match my requirements objetively.

About Vardis Egen, we know he is strong, heavily built. But as you say, not specially tall, thats the reason he will be just a level 5.

About Victarion, you could be right, he could be a level 6 because is tall and strong. But as i didnt have concrete data i set him at 5. The same happens with sandor and the fact he is smaller than his brother. But i could set bot Victarion and Sandor at level 6, yes.



Level 6. Huge. More than 1.80 or 6 feet. And strong.
Level 5. Sturdy. Sturdy, heavily built, really strong, but less than 1.80 or 6 feet.
Level 4. Strong. A common man, not weak, not small. Good warriors with a common body. Like hardly most warriors, Jaime Lannister.
Level 3. Weak. A common man just a bit weak, known for being not specially good fighting, maybe small. Like littlefinger.
Level 2. Gaunt. A man specially weak. He is known for being defeated easily. A joke of a man. Like Samwell Tarly.
Level 1. Dwarf. Nothing to say xD. Just Tyrion at the start.

Level 4 : Robb Stark, Harrion Karstark, Theon Greyjoy, Jon Snow, Jaimie Lannister, Edmure Tully, Bryden Tully, Oberyn Martell. ( and that's all i know ) )

[Elbadruhel]

Updated with Commander Traits: Skills.

If you have any idea or suggestion or think somehting needs to be changed, tell it to me.

[Javl26]

Ebadruhel, Thanks for the good work you're doing.


I have a suggestion .In the level of force, dwarf should be above gaunt because Tyrion (dwarf) is much stronger than Robert Arryn(gaunt).

[Elbadruhel]

Hi jav126,

Thanks for the review. But Robert Arryn is not weaker than Tyrion. He is a small and poor guy. But he has... 7? He may grow up and become a strong man. Or a really weak man. But even a weak man can defeat a dwarf.

A Dwarf always will be the worst warrior posible. Impossible to ride (just with special mount, like Tyrion), bad at combat, easy to be knocked...

Tyrion is brave. REALLY brave. He fights to defend Catelyn, even when she arrested him without reason. Tyrion is a whoremonguer and a drunk, yes. But he is a good, brave and really smart.

If Tyrion is a INT 6, WILL 6, STR 1. For example. He will be one of the best admins and generals of Westeros (at the start he has 0 commander skill, like in lore, but he could improve if u set him as your main leader). About his warrior skill, he should be a level: 6+1-2=5. A 5 of 10 is not bad at all. So i think I will reduce Combat Skill for Dwarfs as far as i do for Dulls.

What do u think?

Robert Arryn is just a boy we cant know how he trully is.

[Javl26]

First of all, I used to Tyrion because there is no other dwarf known in the West.
Now imagine that Robert Arryn is an adult and gaunt, still weaker than a dwarf. The dwarves have "impaired" but that does not mean they can not defend or fight. Instead, Robert Arryn begins to convulse if you give him a slap (I think happened in the final chapter of Sansa in Storm of Swords).

[Javl26]

Also (I apologize again using the same character) Tyrion has demonstrated in the Battle of the Green Fork and in the Battle of the Blackwater, if not the best, he can fight with normal men.

[Elbadruhel]

Dont apologize

Tyrion has demostrated he can command pretty well and that he is brave and fear no battle. But he has demostrated too in the Green Fork and in the Battle of Blackwater, that a dwarf has nothing to do against normal men.

In green fork he was knocked at the start of the fight and he couldnt do anything. In the Blackwater he inspires his men and safe the city, but when he enters in melee fight, he would have dead if Podd dont safe him.

And about Robert, he is not only gaunt, but sick too. As u say, he has some kind of illness that makes him to convulse. Maybe ephilepsia. And i will add that to the game too. And you are right on that, a gaunt boy with sickness will be worse than a dwarf.

So in your case, you are right: Tyrion can kill Robert with a slap xD. But if Robert grows healthy and leave behind his childhood illness, he will be just gaunt so he could kill Tyrion.

Is right for u? Or have other discussion? ^^

Thx for your review.


PD: Tomorrow i will add the combat traits to the preview. Good nights to everybody!

[Javl26]

If not mistaken, Tyrion you speak of is the Game of Thrones Tyrion, because in the books captures a gentleman in the northern Green Fork and kills many men and capturing another Cabalero in Blackwater.
With respect to Robert Arryn, the trait is "gaunt", that we talked about scenario in which, though he grows, remains gaunt.

[Elbadruhel]

In the books, Robert Arryn is not just gaunt, but sickly. Lysa has a lot of problems with his descendence. She has a lot of aborts, all his sons are sick and die quickly. Robert manage to birth and survive, but he is sickly too. He has some kind of illness that makes him weak, convulse... But this kind of problems where REALLY common between the childs in midle ages.

And robets feeding doesnt helps him to grow strong and healthy, he is tied to his childhood. But this is his problem, he has childhood illness. Is very common that babys die soon for several problems, thats the reason why wildings dont give a name to his babys for some years. And when they are childs, they can be sick and die too. There is a lot of noble childs that died for a fever or any other disease in his childhood years.

But once they mature and become adults, they can become strong and healthy. Or may be not. But if them overcome their illnesses, their lifespan grows a lot.

[Iron Aquilifer]

Green fork - he captured a knight. You are referring (unacceptably [emoji14])to the tv show.
As to the BW - died thro treachery, not any fault of his skill.

Then notices Javl26 has already said that...

Good job Elb, and luckily I am too tired to give suggestions.

[turkay98]

Hi jav126,

Thanks for the review. But Robert Arryn is not weaker than Tyrion. He is a small and poor guy. But he has... 7? He may grow up and become a strong man. Or a really weak man. But even a weak man can defeat a dwarf.

A Dwarf always will be the worst warrior posible. Impossible to ride (just with special mount, like Tyrion), bad at combat, easy to be knocked...

Tyrion is brave. REALLY brave. He fights to defend Catelyn, even when she arrested him without reason. Tyrion is a whoremonguer and a drunk, yes. But he is a good, brave and really smart.

If Tyrion is a INT 6, WILL 6, STR 1. For example. He will be one of the best admins and generals of Westeros (at the start he has 0 commander skill, like in lore, but he could improve if u set him as your main leader). About his warrior skill, he should be a level: 6+1-2=5. A 5 of 10 is not bad at all. So i think I will reduce Combat Skill for Dwarfs as far as i do for Dulls.

What do u think?

Robert Arryn is just a boy we cant know how he trully is.

Not really, what about the Dwarfs from the Misty Mountains ? They are very good fighters but in the case of Tyrion The Imp he is the worst warrior i have ever seen )

Imo Tyrion is one of the most clevar character in the whole Westeros such a tiny man with a big brain xD

[HannibalExMachina]

are we really comparing dwarfism with dwarfs here?

[Elbadruhel]

Ooooo meeeen xD.

We have a big problem here. Real Dwarfs has NOTHING to do with LOTR dwarfs! XD

Tyrion is a dwarf, he has stubby legs, a jutting forehead, mismatched eyes of green and black,^[4] and a mixture of pale blond and black hair.

Dwarves are deformed, clumsy, slow and have a completely inappropriate size for battle, both for wielding weapons correctly or for defending himself from falling attacks of their enemies.

A dwarf cant even ride without a special saddle. Thats why they ride pigs and dogs on theater.
A dwarf is clumsy due to his "special" body. Thats why people laughts seeing them juggling and tumbling.

And about the ranks of the game, they are: huge, sturdy, strong, weak, gaunt and dwarf. And apart for real "strength" of every kind of body, they are set on that order too due to balance. Opposite pairs: Huge/Dwarf, Sturdy/Gaunt and Strong/Weak.

Greetings to all

[turkay98]

Ooooo meeeen xD.

We have a big problem here. Real Dwarfs has NOTHING to do with LOTR dwarfs! XD



Dwarves are deformed, clumsy, slow and have a completely inappropriate size for battle, both for wielding weapons correctly or for defending himself from falling attacks of their enemies.

A dwarf cant even ride without a special saddle. Thats why they ride pigs and dogs on theater.
A dwarf is clumsy due to his "special" body. Thats why people laughts seeing them juggling and tumbling.

And about the ranks of the game, they are: huge, sturdy, strong, weak, gaunt and dwarf. And apart for real "strength" of every kind of body, they are set on that order too due to balance. Opposite pairs: Huge/Dwarf, Sturdy/Gaunt and Strong/Weak.

Greetings to all

I think u are right ) anyways a Dwarf is dwarf (weaklings)