Wrath of Sparta Out Now!

[VINC.XXIII]

I repeat: Λ (LAMBDA) apeared AFTER pelloponisian war!

Some shields of Athenian Principalities.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

ENJOY

can you point something in english about these athenian principalities? It is something like Miltiades's chersonese "lordship"?

[AnthoniusII]

Umm; I was referring to a SPECIFIC Spartan shield on display in the Attalid Stoa. Moreover, I repeat when I say that the various soldier/horseman figurines of Spartan origin contain no Lambda symbols on their aspis shields.

Instead...I want to post the Battle of Marathon as painted in Poikile Stoa 30 years after Marathon battle with Athenian shield paterns that still used that time!

That encourvement proves many things (Ancient Greeks did not have artistic freedom in historical events).
You can also see how hoplites used their spears!
Attalid Stoa builded centuries later and its natural to have Spartan shields that were used just before it was builded!
EDIT:

can you point something in english about these athenian principalities? It is something like Miltiades's chersonese "lordship"?

I have much material in books and pictures but i need to much time to scan them and translate them.
Speaking of Miltiades we must not forget Athenian Kleirouchoi Hoplites.
Those Athenian Citizens were sent to Athens' vassals taking local lands (farms = kleiroi) as reward to keep those vassals "loyal" or simply reduse the expences of their upkeep for Mother land! I have not play this DLC (its too expensive ) and i hope that CA included Kleirouchoi Hoplites!

[Scythion]

I repeat: Λ (LAMBDA) apeared AFTER pelloponisian war!
Stoa of Attalos is a very reliable source of ATHENIAN (not all greeks) shield paterns.
In Athens there were 10 main Principalities and each one used a basic symbol with few varieties:

Like the Triselis of the principality of Alkmaionidon

The aristocrats of the principality used purple color on the shield rims and often 4 legs instead of 3!
For the record..The fractia of the Athenian Kings (yes Athens had two Kings even in Democracy but they were spiritual leaders then instead of political ones) used the Argeian Sun as their symbol same with the one you know for macedonian Kingdom!!!!!!!
In every city the Messegers and the Diplomats had a destigntive symbol on their shields.
I have a realy extensive line of shields but i am too lazy to scan them all now!!

Greek shields

The Spartans of the Pelloponisian War plus the Neodamodeis after the end of the war! Kings The shield shows a version of the Argeian (Dorian) Sun!!! The two(2) Bidyguards of each Spartan King used these shields. They were part of the 300 Ippeis unit that served as Royal Guard. Their name means horsemen but they were the best Hoplites in the Spartan Army. They were the 300 that escorted Leonidas to Thermopylae! The symbol refers to two Heroes . Archaic (Achaioi)/Native Spartans The native Spartans were Achaioi that had a Dorian Invasion for Theva ! Spartans remind us how Sweedish Vikings ruled Slavic people at first but after the years they merged). Spartoi Spartoi were the invadors from Theva and became the rulling class for quite some time!! The tribes (Achaioi, Dorians etc) that belonged to a certain unit had destigtive markins on their shield rims (in all cities this was common). Kyrikes of Sparta (diplomats and messegers) used this shield. All Kyrikes in Ancient Greece used shields with versions of Kyrikion (God Hermes symbol). Those with such shields were considered persons that could not be harmed and they did not take part in a phalanx! Spartoi and Archaic Spartans were part of the Mora of Sparta. The rest of the 7 Moras were! Mora of Amyclai or Mora ton Amyclon Mora Limnatidos Mora tis Skiritidos Mora tou Elous (swamp) right and Mora ton Gerothron in the left Mora tis Steniclarou (left) and Mora tis Pylou (Mora of Pylos) right The Leopard was the main Symbol of the Mycenean Rulling class in Pylos and remained as symbol to the Spartan Unit that was settled there! Neodamodeis Neodamodeis created after a major earthquake that killed 80% of the full citizen youth in Sparta! They were used mainly after the Pelloponisian war! Sofanos was an Athenian Hoplite that was considered as the most stable in the Phalanx (he was so stable that Athenians used to say that he may used anger to hold his ground). Athenian Epivatae/pezonautae (Marines) adopted his shield marking as their own in the Pelloponisian War! Athenian Kyrikes used this shield patern (with few varietions) Athenian Kings..shields. Some shields of Athenian Principalities.

ENJOY

Nice. When will you release A mod?

[paradamed]

Are those cool animations from the trailer actually in the game?

[AnthoniusII]

Nice. When will you release A mod?

My friend the most complete mod ever made for that era called Hegemonia City States and it is in RTW mod section!

My friend Jarlaxe created a result beyond the level of this DLC!
I am afraid that:
1ST: I have no Rome II modding skils.
2nd: Rome II modding tools CAN NOT provide the "enviroment" of reaching the scale of the mod i mentioned!
CA made sure that in the FUTURE no real overhaul mod will ever be possible by not completing the modding tools!
If you realy want a real essence of the Pelloponisian war play that mod and ignore this DLC atleast untill CA will release the proper modding tools!

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

1ST: I have no Rome II modding skils.

its easy......

2nd: Rome II modding tools CAN NOT provide the "enviroment" of reaching the scale of the mod i mentioned!
CA made sure that in the FUTURE no real overhaul mod will ever be possible by not completing the modding tools!
If you realy want a real essence of the Pelloponisian war play that mod and ignore this DLC atleast untill CA will release the proper modding tools!

stop talking about something you don't know about......

[AnonMilwaukean]

WoS is the second worst DLC for R2, second only to Beasts of War.

For one, there was no mention on the steam page that the '50 new units' are really maybe '3 new units' for Greek States owners. While I had expected some overlap, as any reasonable purchaser should have going in, I was not ready for the amount of overlap between WoS and Greek States in terms of rosters. Virtually identical rosters to Greek States, minus pikes (because of historical accuracy) and melee units (because ???).

Secondly, hoplite vs hoplite battles are terrible without melee units or much choice of cavalry. Hoplites were already boring because they are just holding units that can take immense ranged damage while cavalry or melee units go around... but in WoS it's even worse because there are no melee units, few cavalry units, and virtually no new hoplites if you own Greek States. Skiritai are one of the only real new hoplites, while some other hoplites have new names ('Athenian Marine' naval units) yet are just light hoplites or standard hoplites in every meaningful way.

Third, while this obviously was an attempt to emulate Shogun 2, which is laudable, the problem is that they failed to think the map through: there are too few settlements that offer important upgrades, and even then some of those upgrades are in settlements of allied (or your most easily ally-able) factions that you literally have no incentive to turn on. Further, mercenaries are identical in every province... which I really, really did not expect. Even in Persian provinces it's the same 5 units.

Fourthly, there's nothing for Custom Battle or the Grand Campaign; even Emperor Edition, which was free, added Armenia. Literally nothing new in Custom Battle, not even Skiritai or however you spell it for the cheap Spartan spear unit.

On Steam forums, a player there pointed out what really should have happened to avoid this debacle: Emperor Edition should have been paid DLC, and WoS should have been free. Then I wouldn't complain, because in that case I'd have been more ready for WoS to be what it is. But releasing EE as a Free-LC first, and following it with this as paid? Not a smart move. They easily could have released WoS as free-LC and then sold Emperor Edition as paid DLC and I doubt it would have hurt the bottom line. But releasing WoS as paid DlC? Well, if my hope for Attila was on death's door, then WoS just burned Attila's body and spit in the ashes as for whether I'll even consider it now.

Final note: CA, Sega - if you guys want to hire a guy who can figure out how to market DLC and what should be free and what shouldn't be, look no further than 90% of the members of this forum. Honestly, maybe it's time to hire some of your bigger critics in the consumer world and have them as low-end consultants, because while I think Attila will still be rather profitable, I also think it's going to be far below what it could have been since I can only assume more of the older fan-base is leery, now. And this is not exactly something like a console game where the younger playerbase will step-in and pick up the slack. No joke: hire on a couple older members of the vocal complainers, use them as cheap consultants, and I think you might do better.

Very disappointed.

[Bethencourt]

Instead...I want to post the Battle of Marathon as painted in Poikile Stoa 30 years after Marathon battle with Athenian shield paterns that still used that time!

That encourvement proves many things (Ancient Greeks did not have artistic freedom in historical events).
You can also see how hoplites used their spears!
Attalid Stoa builded centuries later and its natural to have Spartan shields that were used just before it was builded!
EDIT:

I have much material in books and pictures but i need to much time to scan them and translate them.
Speaking of Miltiades we must not forget Athenian Kleirouchoi Hoplites.
Those Athenian Citizens were sent to Athens' vassals taking local lands (farms = kleiroi) as reward to keep those vassals "loyal" or simply reduse the expences of their upkeep for Mother land! I have not play this DLC (its too expensive ) and i hope that CA included Kleirouchoi Hoplites!

I find this and the Athenian principalities posts quite informative, thank you.

[M@x1mus]

Fancy title "Wrath of Spartaaaaa"
Intro from "300" where a hoplite throw his spear LOL, and someone(king?) with a fancy helm(helm inside the hall!) take decisions without the presence of the other king or the ephors(??)
Hoplite battles without proper hoplite animations
Sparta with walls because there are "limitations" (But .Mitch. thank God has no limits)
Athens destroyed in first 30 turns
+ Poor unit selection and mediocre reskin at best (and many more)
______________________________________________________________
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4
But CA sees only in short term....

[=ANTiKES=]

I find this and the Athenian principalities posts quite informative, thank you.

oh snap, i was about to say that .. Thx 2 AnthoniusII !

[Teil]

Wrath of Spartacus/300 trailer lol + poor Campaign and a lot recyling. Good Work CA......go on and earn your glorious reputation

[Leszko]

The failure is total, people pity money

http://store.steampowered.com/app/32...p_reviews_hash
90% of negative comments

[Zipzopdippidybopbop]

Instead...I want to post the Battle of Marathon as painted in Poikile Stoa 30 years after Marathon battle with Athenian shield paterns that still used that time!

That encourvement proves many things (Ancient Greeks did not have artistic freedom in historical events).
You can also see how hoplites used their spears!
Attalid Stoa builded centuries later and its natural to have Spartan shields that were used just before it was builded!
EDIT:

I have much material in books and pictures but i need to much time to scan them and translate them.
Speaking of Miltiades we must not forget Athenian Kleirouchoi Hoplites.
Those Athenian Citizens were sent to Athens' vassals taking local lands (farms = kleiroi) as reward to keep those vassals "loyal" or simply reduse the expences of their upkeep for Mother land! I have not play this DLC (its too expensive ) and i hope that CA included Kleirouchoi Hoplites!

I think you've misunderstood me; I was pointing out that the Spartans may have had no lambda on their shields (including during the Peloponnesian War period), due to a lack of significant physical evidence supporting it - the image you just showed me reinforces that viewpoint! Moreover, the aspis in the Attalid Stoa (its on display, its not part OF the monument itself) dates to the Pylos-Spacteria affair in the Peloponnesian War (where Thucydides, I think, mentions the 300 shields of the hostages being put on display on the Acropolis for all citizens to see). I can find a photo I took myself somewhere on my PC if you would like.

[Durnaug]

I thought Sparta was on the Western side of the Eurotas?

[andrew881thebest]

totally wasted money, i have just played first and probably last battle, as Sparta. Enemy hoplites overpowered, i did sandwich attacking their rear and militia hoplites hold for hours killing many of my royal spartans...oh please God forgive them.
Not to talk about ugly reskin, basically same models and textures with 1, i mean 1, new helm type. And oh...SParta with walls... hoplites keeping shields with central grip still but...a genius: they have deleted the grip! cause ehi, hoplons did not have central grip..yeah, but if you keep the central grip animation cause you are a lazy idiot, you should keep even the grip.

[Trasibulos]

ok.

i've bought the wos dlc... with a lot of doubts... but anyway, it's a total war product... and it's been plus than ten years they stand by me, so, once again, i trusted them.

But for who, like me, expect since RTW (the first!) a Peloponnesian War focused campaign there was only a huge disappointment.

1) ok, we have to forget Sicily and Magna Graecia, it have been said...
2) hoplite formation degenerate into chaos after half a minute of clashes
3) why only four factions playable? Where is Persia? Where is Makedonia? Where is the democratic city-states of Argos (the second major power in peloponnesos)?
4) political system (that should be very important at this time) is simply insgnificant for the main gameplay (should be more hystorical accurate if tribalism was changed with the government form)
5) it's impossible to "feel the time", for who knows the sources, if i can take Argos (it's just an example) with an "immediate assault"! The most of the greek city states had walls. So Plateia, so Argos, so Mantineia, so Elis, so also Naupaktos (where are the Messenian Hoplites there?), so Potidea etc. etc. And the walls, without siege engines, means, for any attackers, years of siege... that was just the hystorical reality, you can't change this element!
6) where is the "demographic element"? At the time of Peloponnesian War the armies were not so "large", because of the low levels of population (in RTW I you have to recruit one unit for turn and, also, you have to not erode too much the people of the cities, or you could find those without men to make an army! Just another thing: a decisive defeat, for example, should leave you really without defences... more exciting and hystorical accurate!)

anyway sorry for my really bad english.

[ApostolhsVl]

I like the theme of WoS among all dlc's but I hate it the most because of poor unit variety and diversity.

I expected hoplite warfare but CA just copy/paste units. They even dont put effort on making new units specific to each factions... very cheap job not even new feauture design nothing....

[La Migra]

I was amazes how quickly Wrath of Sparta was out on youtube. A lot of details about the gameplay was posted, First I swear there were more factions the four, the Persian Empire is unplayable, To bad, like to Teach those Greek a lesson, maybe someone can unlock it, Persian immortals looks like very light infantry nothing like the 300 that's burn into my psyche but I'm not a historian. Graphic looks boring, Sweetfx be nice Starting point seems to me for all the faction are like everywhere. What bug me the most is that Persian Empire just set there until you trigger something, then they become active. not very exciting, Sorry CA I'll pass on this.

[mongrel]

If people are complaining that there is no variety of units in a period where hoplites were the default soldier (with a limited sprinkiling of psiloi, peltasts and light cavalry), I can't wait for the release of Ancient Sumer. Total War .

[Finch]

epic trailer! kudos to the makers especially using leonidas voice alike but for the dlc i'm a bit disappointed CA could have done more.