How Historical/Realistic Is the Realm Divide Feature In Shogun 2

[Samraat Mahendra Maurya]

So, In general, How Realistic is the Realm Divide feature in Shogun 2?

[LordKainES]

I think not so much, because your allies go against you once you are Shogun... not only the rest of clans...

It should have the effect to remain your alliances after you become Shogun, and make them unbrokable... while the rest of clans will oppose your power! and if you resist a long time at war with them that could be possible to make peace and improve relationships (as they now accept your goverment)

For a realism mod would be nice to implement this!!!

[Zirilian]

When a new faction takes power in a country, there are always those who oppose it--but as LordKain said, there are also those who support it, whether out of ancestral loyalties, opportunism, or other motives. Japan in the warring states period was no different; as major powers emerged in the late 1500's (first Toyotomi Hideyoshi, then Tokugawa Ieyasu), they counted on the support of certain clans and groups while having to subdue or exterminate others (such as the Ikko Ikki in Oda Nobunaga's case, or Ishida Mitsunari's Toyotomi loyalists in Tokugawa's).

So I don't think Realm Divide is "realistic" in either the political or the historical sense. Whether it's a good game design choice is an entirely separate discussion.

[legate]

The Sekigahara campaign was known as the Realm Divide as it was effectively one half of Japan against the other. Realm Divide in game is Japan against the player.

[Wraithe]

It's about as realistic as a video game can get though I think it should have been toned down some. The thing is, people often complain that they think their allies shouldn't turn on them when Realm Divide time comes around but here's some of the reality of that time period.

1.) The whole notion of samurai being completely and utterly loyal and honorable was BS. The Sengoku Jidai is known for everyone backstabbing each other. Most of those guys who committed seppuku were backed into a corner with nowhere to run and thus had to go with killing themselves. Sometimes it was for noble reasons, sometimes it was just a 'screw you' to the enemy "you can't fire me because I quit".

2.) All of these warlords were out for themselves and utterly paranoid of one another. Suffice it to say, alliances were broken back then. Even the Asai who were related by marriage to the Oda turned on the Oda in favour of the Asakura and they did it after he let the Oda pass peacefully threw their lands to literally stab them in the back. So despite people complaining that allies turn on them at Realm Divide time this kind of thing happened and I am pretty sure every guy that got betrayed was furious and thought it was unfair BS when it happened to him too. Kinda like when almost all of the Saito's retainers turned on him in favor of the Oda.

3.) This is where we get into history. The last Ashikaga Shogun was paced into power by Oda Nobunaga but was really just a puppet. Nobunaga went with Askikaga Yoshiaki to take Kyoto after he had been kicked out of Kyoto by one of his brothers and had his inheritance as Shogun taken from him asking Nobunaga to reinstate him as Shogun. Nobunaga played up what he was doing was noble while playing for his own gain and he did it this way to keep the other clans plus even some of his own retainers from turning on him for attacking Kyoto to take power for himself.

Now let's wind back the clock a few years before that. The Tokugawa were in an alliance with the Imagawa after they were threatened on both sides by the Imagawa and Oda. However when Imagawa got his butt kicked at Okehazama the Tokugawa were camped nearby. Did Tokuagawa rush in and beat up on the undersized Oda forces? No. Instead he went to the Oda and made an alliance. Oddly enough, this is one of the few lasting alliances of that period and is what helped the Oda seize control of the country because while everyone else was stabbing each other in the back he had an ally who he could count on to watch his back.

So back again to the Oda being in charge. With Kyoto firmly in hand he invited all the other Daimyo to dinner in plans to kill them while Yoshiaki was sending secret messages for everyone else to come kill Nobunaga. The Asakura refused and Oda decided to attack and that is when his brother-in-law turned on him. Then after Anegawa the Miyoshi and Ikko Ikki decided to team together and go after the Oda. Meanwhile Takeda Shingen decided he wanted to rule Japan and decided to go after Kyoto himself, despite the threat of the Uesugi, and that is when Mikatagahara happened and then later Nagashino. Then of course game the betrayal by Mistuhide and all of that and Toyotomi taking control by negotiating for the 2 year old grandson of Nobunaga to be in control of the Oda clan giving him a very easy puppet to control. Which leads up to the division between forces loyal to Tokuagawa and Ishida and Sekigahara.

So in short, yeah, when someone came into control other people turned on them just like you have in the Realm Divide.