Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 98

Thread: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

  1. #1
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    12,616

    Default Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    By Brandon Reid
    Senior Assistant Editor

    Illinois has become the third state in the nation to call for a constitutional convention to amend campaign finance law to overturn the Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission ruling.

    The Illinois House of Representatives voted 74-40 (with six not reporting) in favor of Senate Joint Resolution 42 (SJR 42) Dec. 3.

    Locally, State Reps. Litesa Wallace, D-Rockford, and Robert W. Pritchard, R-Sycamore, voted in favor of the measure. State Reps. Joe Sosnowski, R-Rockford; Tom Demmer, R-Rochelle; and Brian W. Stewart, R-Freeport, voted against SJR 42. State Rep. John Cabello, R-Loves Park, did not register a vote on the matter. Pritchard was the only Republican to vote in favor of the resolution in the House vote. View the full roll call and find other details on the resolution at http://openstates.org/il/bills/98th/SJR42/.

    With SJR 42’s passage, Illinois joins California and Vermont as states calling for a constitutional convention under Article V of the U.S. Constitution for the purpose of amending the Constitution. Similar measures are also pending in Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, New Hampshire, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Texas.

    A constitutional convention can only be conducted after two-thirds of state legislatures — or 34 of 50 — call for such a convention. None of the 27 amendments to the U.S. Constitution has been proposed by constitutional convention.

    Amendments to the Constitution may also be proposed by Congress with a two-thirds majority vote in both the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate. This is the process used for each of the current 27 amendments.

    SJR 42 cites the United States Supreme Court’s Jan. 21, 2010, ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission as the main reason for the convention. The Citizens United ruling found that, contrary to longstanding precedents, corporations have a First Amendment right to spend unlimited amounts of money to promote or defeat candidates.

    Coming on the heels of Citizens United, the Supreme Court ruled April 2, 2014, in McCutcheon v. Federal Election Commission that putting a limit on the amount of biennial financial contributions individuals can make to a national party and federal candidate committees is unconstitutional. Prior to the ruling, the limit an individual could contribute every two years to a federal candidate was $123,200.

    Supporters of the effort to convene a constitutional convention have speculated that amending the Constitution may be more manageable through a convention rather than waiting for U.S. representatives and U.S. senators to change campaign finance rules on their own — rules many of them benefit from.

    Whether created through a constitutional convention or a majority vote in Congress, a proposed amendment becomes part of the Constitution as soon as it is ratified by three-fourths of the states, or 38 of 50 states.

    The last amendment to the Constitution, the 27th Amendment, was ratified May 7, 1992. That amendment delays laws affecting Congressional salary from taking effect until after the next election of representatives. Ratification of the 27th Amendment, which was first submitted Sept. 25, 1789, took 202 years, seven months and 12 days.

    SJR 42 passed the Illinois Senate April 9 by a vote of 37-15. State Sen. Christine Radogno, R-Lamont, was the only Republican to vote in favor of the resolution in the Senate. Locally, State Sen. Steve Stadelman, D-Rockford, voted for the measure, while State Sens. Dave Syverson, R-Rockford, and Tim Bivins, R-Dixon, voted against it.

    The effort to amend the U.S. Constitution via constitutional convention is being spearheaded by political action committee Wolf PAC. Formed in 2011 and announced at an Occupy Wall Street rally in New York City by The Young Turks host Cenk Uygur, Wolf PAC’s goal is to end “corporate personhood and publicly financing all elections in our country.”

    Posted Dec. 4, 2014
    Well then...this could really happen. With Vermont, California, and now Illinois on board for this, there is a very high chance that in a relatively short time we'll see a new amendment to the US Constitution, the 28th Amendment!

    Corporations are people too, and money is speech, according to the US Supreme Court ruling on Citizens United. Think about that for a moment, the dangers of that. Basically, multinational corporations based in the United States are already buying our representatives by financing their election campaigns and super pacs. That means foreign shareholders in these multinational corporations basically have a say in who becomes the next senator in a state, or even who sits in the White House next as president. And if you don't think campaign ads are pivotal in winning elections, think again. This graph, made by the non-profit and nonpartisan group United Republic, shows clearly that 91% of the time the better-financed candidates win in their respective elections.

    So basically, people (including foreigners) with money have speech, but those who don't have money can off, in the opinion of the SCOTUS.

    What are your thoughts on this, guys? Do you think we'll get enough states to pass a new amendment to the US Constitution? Bear in mind we don't need those snakes in Washington at all. All we need is the support of enough local state legislatures to pass this. Democracy is cool like that, isn't it?

    People love to gripe about how President Obama promised a bunch of change and how he was going to reform Washington from the inside. BWAHAHA! That's funny. The only time the government has ever lifted a finger to help the little guy was when the citizens banded together to make an uproar and actively demand change. Do you think the 1965 Voting Rights Act would have been passed if people hadn't taken to the streets, at the height of the Civil Rights Movement?

    We're the only generation of Americans that hasn't passed an amendment to the US Constitution. Put down your goddamn Sony PS4 controller, wipe those Doritos crumbs off your t-shirt you've been wearing for the past two days, and GET OFF YOUR LAZY ASS, AMERICA.


  2. #2

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Well then...this could really happen. With Vermont, California, and now Illinois on board for this, there is a very high chance that in a short time we'll see a new amendment to the US Constitution, the 28th Amendment!

    Corporations are people too, and money is speech, according to the US Supreme Court ruling on Citizens United. Think about that for a moment, the dangers of that. Basically, multinational corporations based in the United States are already buying our representatives by financing their election campaigns and super pacs. That means foreign shareholders in these multinational corporations basically have a say in who becomes the next senator in a state, or even who sits in the White House next as president. And if you don't think campaign ads are pivotal in winning elections, think again. This graph, made by the non-profit and nonpartisan group United Republic, shows clearly that 91% of the time the better-financed candidates win in their respective elections.

    So basically, people (including foreigners) with money have speech, but those who don't have money can off, in the opinion of the SCOTUS.

    What are your thoughts on this, guys? Do you think we'll get enough states to pass a new amendment to the US Constitution? Bear in mind we don't need those snakes in Washington at all. All we need is the support of enough local state legislatures to pass this. Democracy is cool like that, isn't it?

    People love to gripe about how President Obama promised a bunch of change and how he was going to reform Washington from the inside. BWAHAHA! That's funny. The only time the government has ever lifted a finger to help the little guy was when the citizens banded together to make an uproar and actively demand change. Do you think the 1965 Voting Rights Act would have been passed if people hadn't taken to the streets, at the height of the Civil Rights Movement?
    This Amendment seems like a very good idea to me; it'll be good for Democracy as a whole, and it's about the only way a third party can ever have a chance of becoming a political force (but that remains unlikely, even with this amendment).
    As someone who has always had an interest in US history and the Constitution the idea of an amendment initiated by a Convention is a very exiting propect - I do like a good Constitutional Convention. Still a fair way to go it however, but I suppose if a critical mass forms the others will fall into line...

    We're the only generation of Americans that hasn't passed an amendment to the US Constitution.
    Look at the gap between the 12th and 13th Amendments; just saying. But to be fair that long a gap in passing amendments seems unhealthy if we look at the historical record...

    *US Patriotism intensifies*
    Last edited by Napoleonic Bonapartism; December 05, 2014 at 01:27 PM.
    When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?

    - John Ball (1381)

  3. #3

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    The big hole in the current Supreme Courts philosophy on the topic is that large corporations (telecoms, pharma, automakers) are actually just maxing out donations to anyone and everyone who has a say on policy areas which affect them. E.g. AT&T spreads their money around, has a nice little revolving door going, and has 44 members of congress who own AT&T stock, and AT&T just happened to get their $48 Billion merger approved.

    What the Supreme Court has said is that this money is actually a form of political speech, being used to advance political ideas and is therefor protected by the first amendment. As such, the only Constitutional allowed way to combat it is to have more counter-speech from opposing political viewpoint. But quite plainly this money isn't advancing any sort of specific political agenda. It is influence money, and is being combined with post-congress job offerings, and the fact that many members of Congress from both parties who actually own AT&T stock, to allow AT&T to give direct benefits to whoever is willing to take them,
    Democrat or Republican.

    Nowhere in Citizens United, nor the subsequent related cases, does the court address this very stark reality that when you let in such huge sources of funds you are not just promoting "more speech" during an election with opposing sides trying to advance their political ideas. You're allowing monied interest undue influence on the post-election, highly technical and rather non-public creation of policy. And they get this because they simply cut checks to everyone. It isn't speech, it is ritualized bribery.

  4. #4
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    The Hell called Conscription
    Posts
    35,508

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    People with money still got one vote each only.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  5. #5

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    If the democrats want it and the republicans don't then you need to follow where the money will flow the most if such a thing were to happen. They aren't doing it for the good of the nation.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  6. #6
    Riverknight's Avatar Last of the Romans
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    https://youtu.be/MpCoidxg6Ek
    Posts
    3,875

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    This is funny.

    As an avid follower of Illinois politics and a campaigner for one of the sponsors ON this bill I can tell you that one word comes to mind when I read this.

    Hypocrisy.

    Almost every Democrat on this bill was HEAVILY financed by our current speaker Micheal Madigan. Madigan has been pulling the strings in Illinois since 1983 as Speaker, he has heavily finances his democrat allies and has been the most powerful man in Illinois since then, everything in Illinois runs through him! The ONLY reason this passed was due to him realizing that the whole operation is going to fall apart when he passes (he is 72 now).

    Last election the Republicans had the highest momentum since 94' due to the mismanagement by the Democrats, our Governor Pat Quinn lost his election to a millionaire named Bruce Rauner and Rauner gave money to the Republicans to try and take a few seats from the Democrats, the republicans failed (largely due to Madigan outspending them). I believe Madigan realized the Democrats hold on Illinois is going to end once he passes, they scraped by this election and no leader is going to step forward once he is gone. The only person capable of keeping that hold is Chicago's Mayor, Rahm Emanuel but Rahm is facing his own problems in Chicago with his approval ranting and I think he might want one more shot at Washington.

    This bill will make it easier for the Democrats to keep hold after Madigan leaves, they might not have the hold they have now, but it will at least give them their majority as most of the states population is relatively Democratic.

    They did not pass this due to wanting more power to the people sorta thing... this passed due to simple Chicago machine politics.

    That is not saying that some of these Legislatures actually want it though, I am sure they do! It just makes them hypocrites, I campaigned for someone who sponsored this bill, he/she got HEAVY funding from the DNC (Did I mention Madigan chairs that :p)

    I think this overall is great though and am glad that our Legislative branch actually did something!
    Last edited by Riverknight; December 05, 2014 at 05:14 PM.

  7. #7
    Derpy Hooves's Avatar Bombs for Muffins
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    My flagship, the Litany of Truth, spreading DESPAIR across the galaxy
    Posts
    13,191

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    ​I hope the Pennsylvanian congress will be added to this list of states



  8. #8
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    10,747

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverknight View Post
    Last election the Republicans had the highest momentum since 94' due to the mismanagement by the Democrats
    Change for the sake of change and yes, momentum. Midterms bring out old white men, and the Democrats had the worst turnout in decades. The simple fact is that the Democrats couldn't win this round, even in Illinois. They had no chance in red areas/states.


    This sums up the "change for sake of change" mentality:


    'Like It Never Happened': Public Shrugs at Midterm Results, Poll Shows


    • More than three-quarters of Americans say the election won’t substantially change the nation’s direction;
    • More say they have less confidence that elected leaders in Washington will start working together to solve problems;
    • And Americans are split almost evenly between positive (41 percent) and negative (39 percent) reactions to Republicans controlling both the House and Senate next year.

    A sampling of these short responses: “A good thing,” “About time,” “Complete disaster,” “Awful,” “I guess we’ll see,” “Indifferent.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverknight View Post
    I think this overall is great though and am glad that our Legislative branch actually did something!
    I believe it was Sphere who stated in another thread that Citizens United was the biggest obstacle we face. I dont care how or why, it just needs to go. It's ing scary that it was even possible.
    Last edited by mrmouth; December 05, 2014 at 08:13 PM.
    The fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity

  9. #9

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    I'll be impressed when we hit 50%.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  10. #10
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    12,616

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleonic Bonapartism View Post
    Still a fair way to go it however, but I suppose if a critical mass forms the others will fall into line...
    Well, it's not going to happen tomorrow, but if it continues at this pace, we're looking at a trajectory of years with a single digit, not decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sphere View Post
    It isn't speech, it is ritualized bribery.
    It would be very funny indeed if someone actually thought that the politicians who take these legalized bribes give a damn about the concerns of their citizens (beyond looking bad in the polls). Clearly they are beholden to one interest only: the source of their campaign funding. And possible lobbyist career opportunity when they leave office or fail to get elected in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    People with money still got one vote each only.
    And we're so very grateful to our corporate overlords that they haven't yet decided to drop the illusion that we're all equal, when they can simply flood states with so much money that people hear one narrative and vote for that candidate. Most voters don't have the time to research where all this money comes from. They just see ads and find them convincing enough to be swayed by them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    If the democrats want it and the republicans don't then you need to follow where the money will flow the most if such a thing were to happen. They aren't doing it for the good of the nation.
    That's just the thing. It's not exactly a Republican or Democrat thing considering that members of both parties are bought by the same monied interests, and the fact that in Vermont and California at least members of both parties (in the state legislatures) voted in unison on holding this convention. It turns out that, whether you're a Democrat or Republican, your decision to say "yay" or "nay" is affected by how many registered voters phone your office demanding change. In each case they were flooded with calls and petitions by people in their districts. It was clear that this sort of pressure swayed their decision to vote in favor. In the case of Illinois, as the article explains, one Republican state senator voted in favor of it, so it was certainly more of a partisan issue in their legislature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverknight View Post
    This is funny.

    As an avid follower of Illinois politics and a campaigner for one of the sponsors ON this bill I can tell you that one word comes to mind when I read this.

    Hypocrisy.

    Almost every Democrat on this bill was HEAVILY financed by our current speaker Micheal Madigan. Madigan has been pulling the strings in Illinois since 1983 as Speaker, he has heavily finances his democrat allies and has been the most powerful man in Illinois since then, everything in Illinois runs through him! The ONLY reason this passed was due to him realizing that the whole operation is going to fall apart when he passes (he is 72 now).

    Last election the Republicans had the highest momentum since 94' due to the mismanagement by the Democrats, our Governor Pat Quinn lost his election to a millionaire named Bruce Rauner and Rauner gave money to the Republicans to try and take a few seats from the Democrats, the republicans failed (largely due to Madigan outspending them). I believe Madigan realized the Democrats hold on Illinois is going to end once he passes, they scraped by this election and no leader is going to step forward once he is gone. The only person capable of keeping that hold is Chicago's Mayor, Rahm Emanuel but Rahm is facing his own problems in Chicago with his approval ranting and I think he might want one more shot at Washington.

    This bill will make it easier for the Democrats to keep hold after Madigan leaves, they might not have the hold they have now, but it will at least give them their majority as most of the states population is relatively Democratic.

    They did not pass this due to wanting more power to the people sorta thing... this passed due to simple Chicago machine politics.

    That is not saying that some of these Legislatures actually want it though, I am sure they do! It just makes them hypocrites, I campaigned for someone who sponsored this bill, he/she got HEAVY funding from the DNC (Did I mention Madigan chairs that :p)

    I think this overall is great though and am glad that our Legislative branch actually did something!
    While I don't doubt a word you say here, and realize in a cynical sense that that's how politics work behind the scenes, if the end result is that we finally get campaign finance reform, then so be it. Again, we should look beyond this as some Democrat or Republican issue, this is an issue that affects both parties and ALL Americans. Aside from Illinois, in both California and Vermont there were Democrats and Republicans who were both in favor and against this convention. Both parties are infected by money in politics. Even though the Koch brothers finance Republican candidates who look out for their business interests, that doesn't mean Democrats like Hillary Clinton aren't involved in the same game. She recently gave speeches for Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase that earned her $200,000 for each one! You think they're paying her because they like her ideas? BWAHAHAHA! No, they're buying her so that, should she ever become president after the 2016 campaign, she'll look out for their bottom line and shield them from legislation that would go against their interests or investigate them for fraud, abuse, etc.

    Also, Rahm Emanuel, he's a disingenuous little sack of who was a complete poison pill at the White House. No offense to your state, bro, but people in Chicago are ing dumb as dirt for trusting and voting in that snake oil salesman.

  11. #11
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    12,018

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    Funny fact about a Constitutional Convention - there is nothing binding it to one issue. It is is a free for all and everything is up for grabs.

    I still for the life of me can't understand the outrage over Citizen's United. I can only surmise that those that object are either seriously misinformed or wantonly malicious.

    This post:
    Last edited by Big War Bird; December 05, 2014 at 11:23 PM.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

    -Ella Hill

  12. #12
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    12,616

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Funny fact about a Constitutional Convention - there is nothing binding it to one issue. It is is a free for all and everything is up for grabs.
    That is the opinion of Michael S. Paulsen, in regards to an earlier proposed balanced budget amendment, although I'm not quite sure about it being a total free for all in terms of additional proposals. Paulsen is a professor in the School of Law of the University of St. Thomas, so I'd be curious to see the sources he used to obtain this idea. Perhaps it's an argument of his from omission, in that Article V of the US Constitution isn't specific enough about the procedures of the convention when and if it should ever be held? Since there's no precedent for this (as all 27 current amendments were passed through the Congress), it's impossible to refer back to previous experience on the matter for our nation.

    I still for the life of me can't understand the outrage over Citizen's United. I can only surmise that those that object are either seriously misinformed highly concerned about the corruption of politicians by way of legalized bribery or wantonly malicious just patriotic citizens who care deeply about the direction our country is headed in.
    Look! I fixed it for you. It's much better now.

  13. #13
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    12,018

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    I forgot a third possibility - misinformed and malicious.

    However I will give you a chance to explain your position and you need to answer this problem for me.

    Please explain how fining and jailing people or association of peoples for political speech is less corrupt than not fining and jailing people for political speech.
    Last edited by Big War Bird; December 05, 2014 at 11:55 PM.
    As a teenager, I was taken to various houses and flats above takeaways in the north of England, to be beaten, tortured and raped over 100 times. I was called a “white slag” and “white ****” as they beat me.

    -Ella Hill

  14. #14

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    As Union members are forced to donate to democrats (yes forced, you like working right?) you can see where they win here. Between those and the trial lawyers who have bought them completely, it would end up giving them an advantage over the Republicans.
    Last edited by Phier; December 06, 2014 at 12:05 AM.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  15. #15
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Gatorade, is it in you?
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    12,616

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    Please explain how fining and jailing people or association of peoples for political speech is less corrupt than not fining and jailing people for political speech.
    Political speech is not a crime and (hopefully) it never will be. No one is stopping the CEOs of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase from jumping on a stage somewhere and telling us all their political views and how politicians like Hillary Clinton should adopt their ideas. In fact I would encourage every Wall Street banker and CEO, who are US citizens just like you and me, to exercise their first amendment rights and grab a microphone or, better yet, a giant megaphone and tell us all what they personally think the government should do. Somehow I don't think they'd get too many supporters cheering them on.

    What is a crime, however, is bribery of said politicians under 18 U.S. Code § 201 - Bribery of public officials and witnesses. Citizens United basically represents a massive loophole around that federal law and allows individuals or corporations to spend unlimited amounts of money on political campaigns with a little disclaimer that they somehow have nothing to do with the candidate they're touting. Whose back do you think they're scratching by doing this, and who do you think they expect to scratch their backs in return? This isn't rocket science, this is pretty straightforward and done right out in the open. The proposed amendment would simply close the loophole and cap the spending.

    As for fines and jail sentences, we already have those for people convicted of receiving bribes. That includes the now former governor of Virginia Bob McDonnell, whose sentencing commences in January 2015. I think what he did was wrong and completely exploitative of his position of power, but, as a fellow Virginian, I also hope the judge doesn't punish him too severely. As for individuals and corporations who would hypothetically violate this proposed amendment should it pass via the convention, I would imagine penal sentences would be much lighter than those giving direct contributions to candidates (which is already banned by federal law as bribery). Technically speaking, independent expenditures aren't considered bribery because of the lack of a direct contribution. Those who would attempt to use employ such unlimited funding for political campaigns after the hypothetical amendment was passed to curtail and cap this, then they would be charged with a different offense altogether that merits a different sentence (jail sounds extreme, while moderately fining those convicted of this sounds about right).

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    As Union members are forced to donate to democrats (yes forced, you like working right?) you can see where they win here. Between those and the trial lawyers who have bought them completely, it would end up giving them an advantage over the Republicans.
    The labor unions, perhaps a necessary evil in its inception considering the conditions workers had to put up with in the 19th and early 20th century, are frustratingly partisan in that regard, since Republicans have plenty of working class voters as well. However, we all know where the Republican bread is buttered, and that's by the support of the US Chamber of Commerce crowd. Still, Citizens United doesn't just help them and the various businesses they represent, it also helps the labor unions, because the same principles of no restrictions to expenditures apply to them as well! Labor unions aside, even businesses traditionally aligned with the Republican party have no problem whatsoever with buying a Congressional Democrat who's up for sale, as has been proven again, and again, and again. People are inherently greedy; belonging to one party or the other doesn't change that.

    Also, overturning Citizens United wouldn't stop organizations like the US Chamber of Commerce or others from lobbying Congress as they've always done and should do as is their right. Overturning this ruling with a new amendment would simply mean they aren't allowed to drown us all in "speech" that indirectly feeds the pocketbooks and campaign committees of the politicians they're bribing.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    If the democrats want it and the republicans don't then you need to follow where the money will flow the most if such a thing were to happen. They aren't doing it for the good of the nation.
    how does that follow? Banning the bribery of politicians by hostile powers is common sense.
    Last edited by justicar5; December 06, 2014 at 07:44 AM.

  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    how does that follow? Banning the bribery of politicians by hostile powers is common sense.
    Oh thats funny, you think this would somehow make politics clean and not completely controlled by money?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    The labor unions, perhaps a necessary evil in its inception considering the conditions workers had to put up with in the 19th and early 20th century, are frustratingly partisan in that regard, since Republicans have plenty of working class voters as well. However, we all know where the Republican bread is buttered, and that's by the support of the US Chamber of Commerce crowd. Still, Citizens United doesn't just help them and the various businesses they represent, it also helps the labor unions, because the same principles of no restrictions to expenditures apply to them as well! Labor unions aside, even businesses traditionally aligned with the Republican party have no problem whatsoever with buying a Congressional Democrat who's up for sale, as has been proven again, and again, and again. People are inherently greedy; belonging to one party or the other doesn't change that.

    Also, overturning Citizens United wouldn't stop organizations like the US Chamber of Commerce or others from lobbying Congress as they've always done and should do as is their right. Overturning this ruling with a new amendment would simply mean they aren't allowed to drown us all in "speech" that indirectly feeds the pocketbooks and campaign committees of the politicians they're bribing.
    https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

    Now tell me about buttered bread.

    A demomcrat pac, and then unions are top spots outside of AT&T which donates to both. If you don't see why this is a problem, I got nothing more to say. This won't make the US a better place, it would simply be a way to drown out opposition voices.

    Please lets not be naive here.
    Last edited by Dante Von Hespburg; December 06, 2014 at 10:28 AM. Reason: Double post merged
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Oh thats funny, you think this would somehow make politics clean and not completely controlled by money?



    https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

    Now tell me about buttered bread.

    A demomcrat pac, and then unions are top spots outside of AT&T which donates to both. If you don't see why this is a problem, I got nothing more to say. This won't make the US a better place, it would simply be a way to drown out opposition voices.

    Please lets not be naive here.
    it would reduce the power of corporations, which considering they are more dangerous to democracy than the KGB ever was, is long overdue. Contact with them should be treated the same way as meeting the head of the GRU or KGB would have been.



    It would hit unions as well, ho-hum they can take one for the team. Opposion voices are already drowned out, that it why the Tea Party was allowed to prosper and the Ocuppy movement was beaten and harassed into silence.

  19. #19
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    10,747

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    For people who routinely use revolutionary slogans and claim the mantel of the founding fathers, today's conservative sure is "out of sync" with what they were thinking about both the issue of Judicial Review and, Campaign Finance. Then again they tend to be "out of sync" about what Jesus was about, what the American people actually want, etc, etc.

    Citizens United is popular with a fringe that is desperate to hold on in a changing world and, changing demographics.


    Support for Judicial Review at its very nature included the stipulation that the people can still modify or amend a law, in line with the Constitution. Exactly what is and will happen. Sour grapes to be expected...
    Last edited by mrmouth; December 06, 2014 at 07:52 PM.
    The fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity

  20. #20

    Default Re: Illinois third state to call for constitutional convention to overturn ‘Citizens United’

    Does the stupidity of the idea that corporation are people seriously needs an opposing argument?
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    Cities: Skylines
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ities-Skylines

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •