Faction Reveal Thread - The Franks

[KLAssurbanipal]

“As the world stands on the edge of chaos, the Franks hover between two roles. As destroyers - or inheritors of the Roman legacy - they are on the cusp of realising their full potential.”






A confederation of Germanic tribes from the lower Rhine region, they were defeated and eventually allowed to settle at Toxandria as foederati. While the current Frankish leader Faramund’s rule is a fine example for future rulers, a bolder warlord could lead them to greatness against the failing Empire. If a lasting Frankish kingdom is to emerge from Rome’s ashes, the people must be unified - the Franks must be one!

Situated on the coastline of northern Germania, The Franks have choices to make. Will they strike across the seas to seize the lands of Britannia? Or forge south perhaps, to exploit the weakness of the Western Roman Empire? Whoever they target will tremble in the face of their ferocious warriors, who fight with ever greater intensity the more casualties they sustain.





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[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

So no Frisii?!!

Also, why do the Franks look like Alans, and the Alans look like Franks?

[KLAssurbanipal]

There is a good lesson of history.

Ostrogoths - fight in Macedonian phalangites style (sarissa, small shield, phalanx formation),

Franks - use cataphracts (scale cuirass, greaves, kontos, horse armor),

Saxons - most of soldiers look like kings (use Sutton Hoo helmets - it will better to add them for officers/generals to make them specific and different than standard soldiers. The same problem is in R2 - generals look like soldiers - only Briton generals and some Roman have specific).

All barbarian factions (except Saxons - they are specific with Sutton Hoo and Vendels) use the same only 3 style of helmets so they are very similar (with 3 different cheekplates so there are 9 types of helmets). They use only 2 types of tunics.
Sassanids have those German/Roman cheekplates, too.

Alans, Franks, Ostrogoths and Visigoths - standard soldiers have the same helmets as Roman emperor.

[anandus]

So no Frisii?!!

As a non-Frisian Dutchman I don't mind that the proto-Dutch are in the Netherlands (well, Holland), instead of the Frisians
Although it would be fair if the Frisii would be in the north.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

That's a Scale, not a Lamellar cuirass

Those vambraces though... just no. The Romans, Barbarians, Huns, Hepthaltites, or Persians, or Berbers, or Axumites, or Guptas, or Arabs didn't use Vambraces. Period.

As for the Helmets, there were two styles of helmets mainly used by the Barbarians (other than the Huns, whom we see using a lot of East Asian styles): the Banded Helmet, and the Spangenhelmet (of which Baldenheims fall under).

the Sinj Helmet: A 4th-5th Century Spangenhelmet, possibly Gothic/Sarmatian or possibly Roman, found in Croatia:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This example from the middle danube is one of the earliest Baldenheim examples, and was deposited in about the 475-ish range.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And of course, the common man's helmet: the Banded Helmet. This example is from Shorwell and is of 5th Century Saxon origin.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As a non-Frisian Dutchman I don't mind that the proto-Dutch are in the Netherlands (well, Holland), instead of the Frisians
Although it would be fair if the Frisii would be in the north.

My issue is that the Frisii were still around in this period, and that the Franks never controlled the North Atlantic Coast where the Frisii were located. The Saxons are in the right area, and some Frisii went on to form the Saxons, but there were still a significant portion in the Netherlands that had not been moved into the Roman Empire under Constantius Chlorus...

[KLAssurbanipal]

Magister Militum Flavius Aetius, I know. My mistakes are due to language barrier. I didn't have English in school. I know English only from internet and my travels. For example scale armor is my language 'pancerz łuskowy', so sometimes my English words aren't good because sometimes I forgot what is the word.

Yes, I know about helmets, but please look there are 3 types of sapngglehlem - for Alans, Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Franks and Romans. I think that Roman leader should have other helmet than Alan infantryman. Cataphracts have the same helmets but with a mask. It's so boring. It is possible to use few other helmets for emperors and cataphracts.

Look that CA went to easy way with those 3 helmets. There are 3 types of cheekplates for them (3 x 3 = 9 types helmets finally). But why Sassanians use those cheekplates too? CA add them to long specific spannghelem of Sassanian army. It looks completely weird and nonsense. Those Sassaian helmets shouldn't have small (barbarian types) and big (Roman types) of cheekplates.
Why CA add those big cheekplates from other Roman helmets to all helmets?
http://wiki.totalwar.com/images/3/3c...strogoths2.png
http://wiki.totalwar.com/images/7/7b..._Sassanids.png

I will make a better thread about mistakes - with photos sources etc. I hope CA will read it. For example - tunica manicata is wrong, too.

[rhalina]

This game is more and more as a joke by calling itself "historical" :p
I can't imagine the loss of potential and time in regard of the results. So, i agree that there must be some historical compromises, to make the different factions more playable, fun, etc. But, as for what we can see in reenactment for this period, i have no idea of what is the aim to do such things: creations from A to Z. Seems to be more as tunning-cars to avoid some minutes/hours of reseachs about what texts and archeology tell us. It exists something, called "a book", thah haven't USBports and is not fited with an automatical pageturner or reader, and this item allows to learn somethings on the chosen subject.
It appears that the definition-book could be a good idea to be red before all others: "historical accuracy", "uchrony", "novel", etc.. :p
(sorry to say this sort of things, i love the TW series, but when it's adding frankish tribes and 5"fresh-pizza as their prime weapons, i'm in bad mood).

For the subject opened by Aetius: there is a good article from Kurt Böhner about spang- and band- helms.
Here two plates and the ref:

K.Böhner, << DFie Frühmittelalterlichen spangenhelme und die nordischen helme der Vendelzeit>>
Jahrbuch des Römisch-Germanischen Zentralmuseums Mainz 41, 1994-2.

I heard that this publication is now aviable on their website since some months.

[Abdülmecid I]

So, we will have the Frisii in Frankfurt?

[Warcrafthero]

Is that a kite shield? no criticism, just curiosity

[Toho]

are those....cataphracts...?
lol what in the hell?!

[KLAssurbanipal]

They look like cataphracts with German helmets. Let's change helmets and they could be Parthian, Sassanian cataphracts.

Their shields are too large if they use kontos.... :/
and I'm afraid these shields look like Republican scutum.

[wulfgar610]

Those vambraces though... just no. The Romans, Barbarians, Huns, Hepthaltites, or Persians, or Berbers, or Axumites, or Guptas, or Arabs didn't use Vambraces. Period.

How do you know that? More than likely anybody who was well equipped did have them.

[Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus]

Same helmets but no cataphracts.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

just to put in my 5 cents, I am never going to play franks again :/

[AnthoniusII]

Also, why do the Franks look like Alans, and the Alans look like Franks?

There is a good lesson of history.

Ostrogoths - fight in Macedonian phalangites style (sarissa, small shield, phalanx formation),

Franks - use cataphracts (scale cuirass, greaves, kontos, horse armor),

Saxons - most of soldiers look like kings (use Sutton Hoo helmets - it will better to add them for officers/generals to make them specific and different than standard soldiers. The same problem is in R2 - generals look like soldiers - only Briton generals and some Roman have specific).

All barbarian factions (except Saxons - they are specific with Sutton Hoo and Vendels) use the same only 3 style of helmets so they are very similar (with 3 different cheekplates so there are 9 types of helmets). They use only 2 types of tunics.
Sassanids have those German/Roman cheekplates, too.

Alans, Franks, Ostrogoths and Visigoths - standard soldiers have the same helmets as Roman emperor.

You are both right! Even if someone was born yesterday , today he/she could use google to have some basic info and visual references of what he/she would search for!

KLA the examples you mention are only few! Damn when Narses fought Franks he thought he saw infantry columnes in wedge formation wth warriors to launch or use their famous Frangiska axes (that is why they were known as Franks! Today CA comes and inform us that Narses had visions when his troops faught Franks in front of him , a God knows why!
Vandals apear here in game as naked Celts when Belisarius was afraid their heavy cavalry! belisarius seamed that had illusions too!
Lombards, Heruli were not horsemen but Franks were!!!! But in fact Franks had almost 0 units of horsemen untill early 8th century that they had to deal with Spanish Arabs invasion!
Damn what if we would ask from CA to show us Saxon Huscarls ..What would be the result? An other horsemen unit like modern knights???

[KLAssurbanipal]

AnthoniusII, you're right. Before release R2 I wrote few threads about mistakes. I thought that Attila exmpansion will be better if we talk about historical accuracy. I was wrong. R2 before release looked better than Attila. :/

[Octavius Vatco]

THIS IS ABSURD!!!!! FRANKS ARE NOT KNOWN FOR CAVALRY!!! THEY SUPPOSED TO BE INFANTRY WARRIORS....

They are not known for cavalry until the age of Charlemagne....

[Toho]

Guys its fine. We just need to mod the out of the franks.

[AnthoniusII]

THIS IS ABSURD!!!!! FRANKS ARE NOT KNOWN FOR CAVALRY!!! THEY SUPPOSED TO BE INFANTRY WARRIORS....

They are not known for cavalry until the age of Charlemagne....

No...you, me, KLA and hundreds of thousands of us plus historians are wrong! In CA's univerce only CA knows the truth!

[b257]

Ugh, its like the paladins in BI all over again.