Faction Reveals Thread - Saxons

[KLAssurbanipal]

“Their distance from the heart of the Roman Empire shrouds the Saxons in mystery, granting them the freedom to pillage and conquer as they please.”




While other barbarians fight over the scraps of the decaying Western Empire, the Saxons look to its northern provinces, neglected and drained of troops. Britannia is an especially tempting target, having faced Saxon raids before, when the usurper Maximus commandeered its defenders. Since then, the Saxons have continued to be a thorn in Rome’s side. A series of fortresses, the ‘Saxon Shore’, has even been established to guard against them - a minor obstacle to a well-marshalled and determined Saxon kingdom!

While the weather cools, the sun is rising on Saxon fortunes. Their choices for expansion are many, but whichever direction they choose to advance in, these born pillagers are not simple mindless destroyers, and balance profit with destruction in their military conquests.




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[RagingCroppy]

I'll be playing them.

[Linke]

I hope they have as they imply in the pic made them look more anglo saxon rather than vendel/norse.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

what a odd place they start?

[LewisVee]

YES!!! I'm so relieved that they have been confirmed, I honestly had a small conscious that they would make them a pre order bonus or some rubbish like that.

[Linke]

Looks like the large city of Scandza is in Sweden not Denmark, I would have thought the danes had larger settlements.
Their starting position form a quick google search seems accurate although I cant find any information on Tulifurdum to confirm it as a saxon city, I would have thought a port would be better.

[Antissa]

Nice preview. I plan to play as the Saxons in my first campaign as well.

[EmperorBatman999]

I'm assuming the next one will be the Franks.

Would Saxons wear helmets that ornate into battle? I understand that they did make many decorated helmets, but I don't suppose that they were entirely that practical in combat. I would think that helmets like that were only saved for rituals and ceremony.

[DisgruntledGoat]

I came in here ready to post about a count down to the first comments regarding the use of the sutton hoo helmet.... It appears I was too late.

Anyways, the structure of the sutton hoo helmet is regarded being used in combat (face mask, cheek and neck guards). The ornate carvings less so. As long as these helmets don't have the elaborate decorations (which they don't look like they do other than the mustache) then it should be fine. Now the time frame....

[BttLsht]

Probably (hopefully) an elite unit so masks for being awesome and all.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Looks like the large city of Scandza is in Sweden not Denmark, I would have thought the danes had larger settlements.
Their starting position form a quick google search seems accurate although I cant find any information on Tulifurdum to confirm it as a saxon city, I would have thought a port would be better.

Yeah in BI1 they started in Scandinavia, I always thought they were some kind of previkings?

[Linke]

I'm assuming the next one will be the Franks.

Would Saxons wear helmets that ornate into battle? I understand that they did make many decorated helmets, but I don't suppose that they were entirely that practical in combat. I would think that helmets like that were only saved for rituals and ceremony.

I think this is an example where you can sacrifice a bit of historicity in exchange for way better looking troops.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

what a odd place they start?

No, they're in the right place actually. Although the only city I know of in that region was called Breda and was a little further to the North in modern Bremen.

As for the units, I don't think 8th Century Saxon and Viking (and some clear fantasy stuff) is appropriate for the 5th century, especially considering when we have a wealth of 4th century Anglo-Saxon and North Germanic gear to go off of thanks to the Bog Finds in the Netherlands and Denmark.

[Linke]

No, they're in the right place actually. Although the only city I know of in that region was called Breda and was a little further to the North in modern Bremen.

As for the units, I don't think 8th Century Saxon and Viking (and some clear fantasy stuff) is appropriate for the 5th century, especially considering when we have a wealth of 4th century Anglo-Saxon and North Germanic gear to go off of thanks to the Bog Finds in the Netherlands and Denmark.

How about those Celtic cloaks? to what extent was Saxon culture and warfare influenced by the Brittons?

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

No, they're in the right place actually. Although the only city I know of in that region was called Breda and was a little further to the North in modern Bremen.

As for the units, I don't think 8th Century Saxon and Viking (and some clear fantasy stuff) is appropriate for the 5th century, especially considering when we have a wealth of 4th century Anglo-Saxon and North Germanic gear to go off of thanks to the Bog Finds in the Netherlands and Denmark.

Ahhh okey fair enough :3

[Ahiga]

Honestly with regards to complaints of anachronism, if CA had went with a totally authentic Saxons I doubt anyone would eagerly want to play them and I feel like I'd be hearing "rumble rumble why is CA so lazy/so boring" instead. Unless I am mistaken and someone can point to finds suggesting otherwise, my understanding of authentic 5th century saxons is:

-No armor for anything but at best the top tier unit. Possibly no armor for anything but the officers - or even just the general!
-Limited helmets, if any, for all but the top tier unit.
-Limited swords for all but the top tier unit and officers/general.
-Most of your men would be in essence Thureophoroi with seaxes, angons, throwing axes, and lighter spears.
-Bowmen, javelinmen, slingers.
-Not certain if the continental saxons had any cavalry whatsoever. The whole myths of their two founders with the associations of horses to their names suggests they probably did.

So I can understand most of the embellishments, as otherwise Saxons and Franks and Alamanni would be literal clones of eachother (and again, you lot would be going off about how lazy CA is). The one thing that's a bit too far fetched for me personally are the huscarl style 2h axemen we saw in the londinium siege.

[Hresvelgr]

How about those Celtic cloaks? to what extent was Saxon culture and warfare influenced by the Brittons?

What do you mean Celtic? Are you talking about the plaid-patterns? Because I was under the impression that was typical of northern Europeans in general around this time.

[Totalheadache]

Yep those helmets were most likely only used by the leader...well the Sutton Hoo helmet I think is one of the very few to be found and that was the burial of Raedwald (or so it's believed).

They would have used cavalry as they were employed by the Romans as troops so it's likely they would have at least seen horses in use but again the extent is hard to say. Actually thats something I dont know, how were they actually employed by the Romans...infantry or cavalry or both?

More prevalent was the shield wall...(well this is what they are renowned for as were the Vikings).

If you look at the battles over the yrs involving the Saxons up until the conquest cavalry were secondary to the infantry. Huscarls being the elite unit. (or Housecarls). Even at Hastings the Saxon army didnt use cavalry against the Normans who did...(also its mentioned they had less archers). ((Huscarls being axeman with very very high morale+armour+stamina)).

P.s and their starting region should be more extended. At least into Denmark and perhaps more into the low countries..some parts of Sweden. The saxon invaders were made up of Jutes, Saxons and elements from Denmark, Sweden, lower germany..

Quality of their metalsmithing was very good so I'd expect them to have some of the heavier infantry (noble swords and spears) in the game.

[Jokern]

I am so going to play as the Saxons, conquer Sweden and Denmark and establish my own Viking kingdom!

[Totalheadache]

And I hope CA get the swords right or there will be blood! J/K. Saxon swords werent as long as you would imagine...something they copied from the Romans..i.e in the shield wall a long sword was more or less redundant. It was spear and short/er sword. Plus of course your seax.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sa...=1920&bih=1089

actually held one myself...! I recommend u do so as well hehe..