Back to School, A Small Guide to Academies

[Poppis]

EDIT: This guide has NOT been updated to 2.1.

This is a small guide explaining how academies work in EB2. Those who are not fans of micromanaging probably don’t find this guide that interesting and that's fine since the effects this has on the game are not that big in the grand scheme of things. But there might be some general rules of thumb that you could find useful(and not too tedious) to incorporate into your own campaigns.

There are two trait lines that are strongly related to academies and learning. These are the Scholarly trait line and the Unschooled trait line. There are four levels(traits) in the Scholarly trait line and two in the Unschooled trait line.

Scholarly trait line:

Trait name            bonuses
Cultured              influence +1
Erudite               trading 5, tax collection 5
Scholastic            influence -1, hit points -1
Pedantic              influence -2, hit points -1

Unschooled trait line

Trait name            bonuses
Unschooled            influence -1
Practical             trading 5, tax collection 5

As you can see the bonuses in both trait lines are not additive. Instead, in the Unschooled trait line the first trait is negative but the second one is positive whereas in the Scholarly trait line first two traits are positive but the third and fourth are negative. A character can not have traits from both trait lines at the same time. Also, once you get the first trait in either trait line, you cannot lose it(but you can increase it ie get a higher trait in that trait line).


How do these two trait lines relate to academies?


If you have the unschooled trait line, you cannot learn anything in an academy*. Also, the higher your scholarly level, the faster you learn.

*and by anything I mean of course only traits. You can still get ancillaries if you’re unschooled.


So how exactly do you get the first level in either trait line and how can you increase it once you have it?

Let’s start with the Unschooled trait line. This one is very simple and unfortunately there is not much you can do to affect it. Every turn you got a small chance to get points in this trait line(ie get closer to Unschooled trait) as long as you don’t have any Scholarly trait and you are under 28.

Once you have Unschooled, you got a small chance every turn to get points in this trait line(ie get closer to Practical) as long as you are intelligent and energetic and are under 28.

Now let’s look at Scholarly. This is a bit more complicated, but unlike Unschooled, you can affect it a little. You get points in this trait line mainly by staying in a town that has academy lvl 1 or higher. But there are some restrictions(since learning is hard).

Every turn(that you’re in an academy) you got a small chance to get points in this trait line(ie get closer to Cultured) as long as you have high intelligence OR high charisma and are under 28.

Once you have Cultured, you got a small chance every turn(that you’re in an academy) to get points in this trait line(ie get closer to Erudite) as long as you have high intelligence and are under 28. So you can’t get past Cultured without high intelligence.

Once you have Erudite, you got a small chance every turn(that you’re in an academy) to get points in this trait line(ie get closer to Scholastic and eventually Pedantic) as long as you have high intelligence AND low charisma and are under 28. So having high intelligence is not enough to get past level two(Erudite) in this trait line, you also have to have low charisma.

So what does all this tell us?

Well first of all it tells us that people in this time period stopped learning at age 28*. The way I see it is if you ever get the Cultured trait, you want to increase it to Erudite but not any more than that(I haven’t done the math but I would assume the 5%trade/tax is better than the +1 influence from cultured, I could be wrong). If on the other hand you get the Unschooled trait, you will always want to increase it to Practical.

*Don’t get this confused with academies. Age 28 only stops you from advancing in the Scholarly and Unschooled trait lines, it does not stop you from learning traits and getting ancillaries from academies(as long as you meet the other requirements which are detailed next).

How do scholarly characters learn stuff at academies?

You need to end your turn in a settlement with an academy AND have 100% movement points remaining in order to have a chance at learning anything. The higher your Scholarly level, the faster you learn. The higher your intelligence, the faster you learn.

There is also a consolation prize if your luck ran out and you become unschooled, in that if you manage to get to Practical(which is of course completely random) you have a small chance every turn(that you spend in a settlement) to get points in certain trait lines. This includes most of the good traits you would've gotten from an academy. Learning this way is a lot slower than in an academy, but it basically means that you can learn “academy traits” without having an academy(no ancillaries though).

So we have concluded that you would either want to have Erudite(level 2 scholarly) or Practical(level two unschooled) on your characters. You need high intelligence to get Erudite, whereas you need both high int AND high charisma to get Practical. This combined with the fact that you can’t really affect how to get points in Unschooled means that you should always aim for Erudite for all characters(obviously there are exceptions, like when you need your young men as generals, don’t have high int, etc). So when a new character comes of age, you should get him into an academy and keep him there for as long as it takes for him to get erudite(or until he turns 28). Once you turn 28, you are stuck with whatever level of scholarly/unschooled you happen to be at the moment.

Below is a link to a Google docs file which has tables for all the traits and ancillaries available from academies. The first tab lists the traits, the second tab lists the ancillaries. Note though that the tables might not be in the most user friendly manner as I originally made them for myself. I will probably polish them up in the future to make them a bit easier on the eye.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

[HarkonRules]

Wanted to bump this because it's a pretty good guide for something that I'm pretty sure only a minimal number of people understand and it was quite buried away! For those of you who really care about grooming your characters as much as you can, both for gameplay and roleplay value, take a look at this. Schools have some pretty neat bonuses plus they make perfect sense, especially with the most civilized factions.

[Shylon]

Very good guide although it seems to be outdated. Maybe I'm wrong, but export_descr_character_traits says some different things. What I'm reading says:

Unschooled: Everyone.
Practical: Intelligence + Energy.

Cultured: Charisma + Academy.
Erudite: Intelligence + Academy.
Scholastic: Intelligence + Low Charisma + Academy.
Pedantic: Intelligence + Low Charisma + Academy.

All of them being under 28. You can't get Scholarly traits if you are already Unschooled or Practical. No mention of movement points or higher Intelligence making characters learn faster.

There are other ways to get this traits. For example, Unschooled traits with Temple of Farming, and Scholarly traits with Temple Governors lvl2 or higher.

[SilverTiger]

In my current Boii campaign my faction leader has both traits; Unschooled and Scholarly.
When looking into the EDCT I saw, that the anti traits of those two are commented out. Is this intended?

[Genghis Skahn]

Anti-traits don't work in M2TW. There's a whole thread on that in the M2TW modding sub-forum.

Instead we must rely on anti-trait triggers like so:

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Scholarly_Unschooled_AntiTrigger
  WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

  Condition Trait Scholarly > 0
        and Trait Unschooled > 0

  Affects Scholarly -1  Chance 100
  Affects Unschooled -1  Chance 100

That is very strange though--this anti-trigger should prevent that from ever happening. It certainly made it into 2.3--I suspect that it must be something wrong with your installation/EDCT or what have you. Has the trait not disappeared after a few turns???

Being a Boii veteran myself, I've never personally seen the two traits occurring together. In the next mini-release(2.3a) or release there are also anti-triggers to make sure successful druids lose the unschooled trait(makes no sense since becoming a druid implies being educated).

[SilverTiger]

That is very strange though--this anti-trigger should prevent that from ever happening. It certainly made it into 2.3--I suspect that it must be something wrong with your installation/EDCT or what have you. Has the trait not disappeared after a few turns???

Just skipped some turns. The Unschooled trait disappeared and now he hast just the Scholarly level Cultured.
Don't know where he got that Schorlalry trait tough. He was Unschooled when he was 28 ages years old. But he got the Scholarly trait around the age of ~50.

[Genghis Skahn]

Ah so the anti-trait trigger is working then. No idea what's going on with the late appearance of the scholarly trait--I haven't touched those triggers, personally.

[SilverTiger]

I think this is the trigger for the late Scholarly trait:

Trigger character_spends_time_at_great_gov_temple
  WhenToTest CharacterTurnEndInSettlement


  Condition RemainingMPPercentage > 95
        and Trait Warmonger < 1
        and Trait Brutal < 1
        and Trait Lenient < 1
        and Trait BadAdministrator < 1
        and Trait Bored < 1
        and Trait Sacrilegious < 2
        and Trait PublicAtheism < 2
        and SettlementBuildingExists > temple_of_governors_L2


  Affects PublicFaith  1  Chance  3
  Affects Supervisor  1  Chance  3
  Affects Talkative  1  Chance  2
  Affects Coward  1  Chance  2
  Affects GoodAdministrator  1  Chance  2
  Affects Pious  1  Chance  2
  Affects Scholarly  1  Chance  2
  Affects BoringSpeaker  1  Chance  2

There is indeed a temple of governors in the city, so it seems you can get points in the Scholarly trait when having a level 2 temple of governors as you can get points in the Unschooled trait when having a temple of farm.

[Genghis Skahn]

Ah right--intentional then. I've added a Unschooled < 1 condition to that trigger you posted.

[Gunydii]

In relation to temples and education, is there any reason that forge temples don't have a "character_spends_time_at_x_forge_temple" set of traits. The other 4 types seem to have traits linked directly to the temples, forge doesn't seem to.

[Genghis Skahn]

In relation to temples and education, is there any reason that forge temples don't have a "character_spends_time_at_x_forge_temple" set of traits. The other 4 types seem to have traits linked directly to the temples, forge doesn't seem to.

Basically, I had no idea what the hell kind of trait bonuses I'd give them.

[Gunydii]

Basically, I had no idea what the hell kind of trait bonuses I'd give them.

Fair enough, would good builder and miner be too strong as pros? bad farmer as a con?

[Genghis Skahn]

Isn't GoodBuilder already being used by one of the other temples? GoodMiner didn't exist when these triggers were made( they were some of my first in the EDCT, btw), but now that it does, it's certainly worth considering. Currently, there's no GoodFarmer/BadFarmer traits in the EDCT--though I've been meaning to add them for a while(since they seem rather plausible to me, IMO).

[HarkonRules]

At least I'm glad that by reviving this thread, it gave the chance for more knowledgeable souls than me to discuss its related topics.

@Poppis I noticed you edited this after I necro'd the thread, it would be awesome if you were willing to update it to 2.3, as I love this kind of stuff and I suck at interpreting these scripts. Totally up to you if you want to and can afford the time, of course. Cheers.

[Gunydii]

Isn't GoodBuilder already being used by one of the other temples? GoodMiner didn't exist when these triggers were made( they were some of my first in the EDCT, btw), but now that it does, it's certainly worth considering. Currently, there's no GoodFarmer/BadFarmer traits in the EDCT--though I've been meaning to add them for a while(since they seem rather plausible to me, IMO).

As i read it 'bad builder' is linked to the great farm temple. Only reference to good builder i see is having the good builder trait prevents you being affect by the great farm temple at all - Possibly an idiot mis reading this.

Slightly surprised to hear there isnt a GoodFarmer/BadFarmer trait, I guess the various bonuses ive seen in relation to framing output or growth live somewhere else.

Another thought - could be a stretch - could liking foreigners (at least skilled ones) be linked to temples of forges (at least for some cultures), exchanges in ideas could be useful in making 'stuff'.

More obvious one could be trade, better craftsmen -> better trader, but this could lead to balance issues. trade + building + mines = op.

possibly extravagance as another nega trait?

[Poppis]

@Poppis I noticed you edited this after I necro'd the thread, it would be awesome if you were willing to update it to 2.3, as I love this kind of stuff and I suck at interpreting these scripts. Totally up to you if you want to and can afford the time, of course. Cheers.

I have no plans on updating this guide at the moment as I already have two other guides that need looking after and even that feels too much considering how often I get distracted from EB2 stuff by other games.

[DonkeyStrider]

What about the Emporiarches trait... is there a way to avoid having corrupted traders?