(Arc 1) [Genesis] Language Creation & Discussion

[Dirty Chai]

The voted languages are "Northern Iranian/Scythian/Khotanese", "Magyar", and "Turkic."

Language Influence Info

1) "Northern Iranian/Scythian/Khotanese"
This spans the pre-Altaic languages of antiquity in the Eurasian steppe from modern Ukraine in the west to the base of the Ural Mountains in the north to the Kyzyl-Kum desert in the south to the Tarim Basin in the east. These are Iranian languages, spoken by people such as the Sarmatians, Scythians, Parthians (pre-empire), Chorasmians, Sogdians, Khotanese (Eastern Saka), Kushans, and, for the purposes of simplification, the Tocharians even. Pashto, Farsi, and other more geographically "central" Iranian languages are not included.

2) "Magyar"
This is the language of the probably Uralic steppe horde that invaded the Carpathian Basin (modern Hungary) in the 9th century.
Magyar is spoken by specific one group of people, Hungarians, probably having separated from their distant cousin people early on.

3) "Turkic"
This represents all of the Turkic languages that spread west from the Altai Mountains and western/northern Mongolia to migrate all across Eurasia and into the Middle-East.
Many adopted Islam, including the specific "Turks" themselves, but this language group focuses on the more northerly, more "original" groups.
The Xiongnu and Huns of late Antiquity and the early Middle Ages may have been Proto-Turks. The Gokturks were the first clear Turkic people, uniting tribes northwest of China into a massive Khanate after the fall of the Xiongnu. Afterwards, all Turkic peoples began to use the word "Turk" as their umbrella concept.
They moved west during and after the rise of the Gokturks, spreading into the arid lands east of the Caspian Sea; this became vaguely known as "Turkestan" - Land of the Turks.
From here, the Turkic peoples split. Some go south, and then west, becoming primarily led the Islamic Seljuq dynasty. The others stayed north, and continued west to Crimea and Ukraine, and even into the northern Balkans for a time. Examples: Gokturks, Khazars, Pechenegs, Cumans, Kipchaks, Volga Bolghars, the Avars, and probably the Huns, Xiongnu, and maybe Hephthalites.

These three particular languages happen to be very intertwined.
The Iranian languages highly affected Magyar in their many centuries sharing the steppes, and Turkic is highly influenced by interacting with the steppe Iranians and they have in turn likely affected the Magyars. Example: Chorasmia. In Avestan, it is "Xvairizem". In Turkic, it is "Harezm".

So these languages should not really conflict with each other, as far as I know.

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To-Do List Agenda:
1) Create a basic "phonology" - basically make up some example suffixes and prefixes, and perhaps some sentence structure. This is the written "look" of the language, and how we will base further work on the language off of, to make it all seem like one language.
2) If we want, we can come up with what our runes look like - our only writing system so far should be scratches/paint on rocks at best.
3) Names. We will create example bunches of given names, male and female. People will agree on them. If not, toss them.
We should create enough so that people can come up with new ones that fit in with the rest of them by example.
A good way to create names is to come up with a bunch of prefixes and suffixes to mix and match, along with their meanings.
4) How do we designate/identify people beyond a given name? Do we have something similar to surnames or nicknames? Names designating paternal or maternal descent?
5) Names for objects we known and/or use. Names for animals. And so on.
6) Place names. Names for specific locations, regions, and even just common types of terrain.
7) What do we call ourselves? What do we call other people that we know?

[McScottish]

Just thought I'd voice my utter disdain for this mix.

Now that I've said that, enjoy thinking stuff up.

[Ace_General]

The voted languages are "Northern Iranian/Scythian/Khotanese", "Magyar", and "Turkic."

Language Influence Info

1) "Northern Iranian/Scythian/Khotanese"
This spans the pre-Altaic languages of antiquity in the Eurasian steppe from modern Ukraine in the west to the base of the Ural Mountains in the north to the Kyzyl-Kum desert in the south to the Tarim Basin in the east. These are Iranian languages, spoken by people such as the Sarmatians, Scythians, Parthians (pre-empire), Chorasmians, Sogdians, Khotanese (Eastern Saka), Kushans, and, for the purposes of simplification, the Tocharians even. Pashto, Farsi, and other more geographically "central" Iranian languages are not included.

2) "Magyar"
This is the language of the probably Uralic steppe horde that invaded the Carpathian Basin (modern Hungary) in the 9th century.
Magyar is spoken by specific one group of people, Hungarians, probably having separated from their distant cousin people early on.

3) "Turkic"
This represents all of the Turkic languages that spread west from the Altai Mountains and western/northern Mongolia to migrate all across Eurasia and into the Middle-East.
Many adopted Islam, including the specific "Turks" themselves, but this language group focuses on the more northerly, more "original" groups.
The Xiongnu and Huns of late Antiquity and the early Middle Ages may have been Proto-Turks. The Gokturks were the first clear Turkic people, uniting tribes northwest of China into a massive Khanate after the fall of the Xiongnu. Afterwards, all Turkic peoples began to use the word "Turk" as their umbrella concept.
They moved west during and after the rise of the Gokturks, spreading into the arid lands east of the Caspian Sea; this became vaguely known as "Turkestan" - Land of the Turks.
From here, the Turkic peoples split. Some go south, and then west, becoming primarily led the Islamic Seljuq dynasty. The others stayed north, and continued west to Crimea and Ukraine, and even into the northern Balkans for a time. Examples: Gokturks, Khazars, Pechenegs, Cumans, Kipchaks, Volga Bolghars, the Avars, and probably the Huns, Xiongnu, and maybe Hephthalites.

These three particular languages happen to be very intertwined.
The Iranian languages highly affected Magyar in their many centuries sharing the steppes, and Turkic is highly influenced by interacting with the steppe Iranians and they have in turn likely affected the Magyars. Example: Chorasmia. In Avestan, it is "Xvairizem". In Turkic, it is "Harezm".

So these languages should not really conflict with each other, as far as I know.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

To-Do List Agenda:
1) Create a basic "phonology" - basically make up some example suffixes and prefixes, and perhaps some sentence structure. This is the written "look" of the language, and how we will base further work on the language off of, to make it all seem like one language.
2) If we want, we can come up with what our runes look like - our only writing system so far should be scratches/paint on rocks at best.
3) Names. We will create example bunches of given names, male and female. People will agree on them. If not, toss them.
We should create enough so that people can come up with new ones that fit in with the rest of them by example.
A good way to create names is to come up with a bunch of prefixes and suffixes to mix and match, along with their meanings.
4) How do we designate/identify people beyond a given name? Do we have something similar to surnames or nicknames? Names designating paternal or maternal descent?
5) Names for objects we known and/or use. Names for animals. And so on.
6) Place names. Names for specific locations, regions, and even just common types of terrain.
7) What do we call ourselves? What do we call other people that we know?

Actually, I think there is some language that is similar to this mixing uralic, Turkic, and Iranian somewhere in the Caucasus or Siberia

And slightly more modern languages actually hold some of what we would want in this. For example Tajik is a mix of Middle Persian (Sassanid times to high middle ages) and Turkic.


Wait a second, I think our langauge is actually pretty damned close to early modern and modern tatar, especially in Siberia/eastern european Russia(think Kazan-Ashkatran-Saratov) given tthat the tatars assimlated both turkic and Iranian nomads along with a good chunk of the Uralic native population

[Dirty Chai]

Okay, exactly how many people actually highly dislike this mix?
Is it only Agamemnon and Ace_General who like this?

[Pericles of Athens]

Just thought I'd voice my utter disdain for this mix.

Couldn't have put it better myself, so I wont even try.

[Dark Storm]

I have no problem with any of the mixes to be honest; there's nothing wrong with this in my opinion. In all honesty it's not as if the posts are not going to be fully in these languages as it's not viable or really allowed due to forum rules. At the end of the day, we're taking these as influences for various nouns but I suppose we'll just choose what works and is easiest to work with for the largest amount of people. So yeah, I don't mind, I'm happy with whatever's chosen

[Xion]

I have no problem with any of the mixes to be honest; there's nothing wrong with this in my opinion. In all honesty it's not as if the posts are not going to be fully in these languages as it's not viable or really allowed due to forum rules.

A good point. Personally, I don't really like this mixture as there's not a non-steppe language(e.g. Aztecan, Maori) to balance out the Eurasian ones.

[Dirty Chai]

The vote is void if it doesn't represent a true majority ruling.

It's highly possible the vote is inaccurate: First I let people vote for as many of the choices as possible. This led to multiple ties.
Then we did a secondary vote between those ties. We moved onto a third one for the same reason, but Aggy came in and added his input to the second one.

[Dark Storm]

Shall we just redo it with each person picking one option? We then keep the top 3 and do another vote between these?

[Adamat]

Yeah, this mix doesn't seem to work very well...

[Dirty Chai]

I'd do that, I just want to make sure a redo is popular and not just something 2 people want.

[Zectorman]

redo plz.

[Dirty Chai]

So that's about 5 or 6 people (including myself) who want to do a re-do against 2 people who do not.

I'm archiving this then.
New language creation thread will come soon.