Quran's "Verses of Violence" Explained

[Cyrene]

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One of the most common discussions about the Religion of Islam is whether it promotes Violence or not, those who argue it Does usually provide examples of Terrorist Groups that Spread Terror in the Name of Islam, therefore seeing these Terrorist Groups as Products of this Religion, There is a new trend on forums though, You will get a Huge post containing various **Violent** Quotes from the Qur'an, right in your Face, and to some muslims, that's game over, it's true that many Muslims today don't really know much about their religion, and so when confronted with these quotes in Anti-Islam websites, they either leave the Religion, or stay muslims AND become very Violent as that is what he thinks his God wants him to be. ( <------ and as everyone else, i despise such "muslims" with all my...butt ).

so what i hope i'm gonna be doing in this thread is to provide the most sensible Explanation possible of the so-called Verses of Violence using Classical Arabic Dictionaries like Lisan Al-Arab ( لِسَانْ الْعَرَبْ Meaning: The Language of Arabs)by Ibn Manẓūr, and Al-Qāmūs al-Muḥīṭ ( الْقَامٌوسْ الْمٌحِيطْ Meaning: The Comprehensive Dictionary) by Abu Al-Tahir Fairuzabadi . and will also Quote some explanations made here on the forums to some verses, so without further derailing:



1- Kill all Non-Theists:

{kill them, Such is the reward of those who reject faith.} {2:191}

Answer:

“Choose and Cut” , let's read the Context:

{Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they fight you there; but if they fight you, ---->[kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith]<---- But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression [1], and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression} {2:190-195}

Explanation:

The verse clearly states to fight those who fight you, yet do not transgress limits. In so sense therefore does it promote killing of innocent but allows self-defence. It further goes on to state “And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice” and “if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression”. Hence, once again when the whole context is examined these verses do not promote killing of innocent people in anyway.


2- Always Launch Jihads on the Infidels ( Funny Translation ):

{Not equal are those believers who sit at home and receive no injurious hurt, and those who strive hard, fighting Jihad in God’s Cause with their wealth and lives. God has granted a rank higher to those who strive hard, fighting Jihad with their wealth and bodies to those who sit (at home). Unto each has God promised good, but He prefers Jihadists who strive hard and fight above those who sit home. He has distinguished his fighters with a huge reward} {4:95}

Answer:

No, once again let's read the Context:

{O ye who believe! When ye go forth to fight in the way of God, be careful to discriminate, and say not unto one who offereth you peace: “Thou art not a believer,” seeking the chance profits of this life. With Allah are plenteous spoils. Even thus were ye before; but Allah hath since then been gracious unto you. Therefore take care to discriminate. Allah is ever Informed of what ye do. ---->[Those of the believers who sit still, other than those who have a (disabling) hurt, are not on an equality with those who strive in the way of Allah with their wealth and lives. Allah hath conferred on those who strive with their wealth and lives a rank above the sedentary. Unto each Allah hath promised good, but He hath bestowed on those who strive a great reward above the sedentary<----} {4:94-95}

Explanation:

The verse is stating those who strive in the path of God with their lives and wealth , NOT those Who Kill innocent people, striving for the way of God doesn't necessarily mean slaughter, you can strive for the way of God and risk your wealth and life by helping those infected with Ebola or Aids for example, so basically, those who strive for the way of God are not equal to those who do not, which is logical. Accurate translations make no mention of “Jihadists” and killing, are you kidding me? Once again, critics take advantage of inaccurate translations. Also 4:94 prevents killing of innocents as it says “…be careful to discriminate, and say not unto one who offereth you peace: “Thou art not a believer,” seeking the chance profits of this life…”


3- Continue Jihad while i watch you from Above:

{smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have slaughtered them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by God to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam} {47:4}

Answer:

some insist on using this very poor translation of the Quran with the additions, However, almost all of the major translations are contrary to the above translation, let's see what it really says:

{when ye meet the Unbelievers in Battle, ---->[strike at their necks, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly on them, thereafter is the time for either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are ye commanded, but if it had been Allah’s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them Himself; but He lets you fight in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost<----} {47:4}

Explanation:

Nowhere does the Qur'an make any mention of ”killing and wounding” and “Thus are you commanded by God to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam”, those are not found in the Quran.
The context of this verse was when the Muslims were to fight their enemies for their very existence. After thirteen years of Torment and Persecution , the prophet and his companions had to leave their home town of Mecca and emigrate to Yathrib ( now Medina ). When the people of Yathrib had welcomed him there and he was accepted as a leader there, the Meccans became unhappy. They wanted to eliminate Muhammad and his religion; and so they sent their army to root out Islam. And the crucial battle took place in Badr [2].

Once again, the context is of war and battle here and therefore killing of innocent people is not prescribed. Naturally, in war people would be expected to fight and kill, therefore “strike at their necks” is only natural.


4- Live to Kill:

{Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah} {4:76}

Answer:

and:

{How should ye not fight for the cause of Allah and for the cause of the feeble among men and of the women and the children who are crying: Our Lord! Bring us forth from out this town of which the people are oppressors! Oh, give us from thy presence some protecting friend! Oh, give us from Thy presence some defender! ---->[Those who believe Fight for the cause of God]<----} { 4:74-76 }

Explanation:

this is specific to those who have been oppressed. In order to help those who cannot help themselves is indeed a great deed and to shun away tyranny and help those who are weak and oppressed. Islam-critics seek to present a view of violence and hate on behalf of the Quran, however, when the verse is examined carefully in a correct context, their deceit is clearly exposed.


5- Crucify them:

{The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land} { 5:33 }

Answer:

we already have an answer from Setekh:

The story 5:33 is on starts way back but you can start from 5:27 where Adam's two sons. One of them killed the other. In 5:32, it's told that killing someone who didn't kill or terrorized is like killing the whole mankind. It also points out that many people were hostile towards the prophet in excess amount. 5:33 is said in light of that. Furthermore, it's not an instruction. It merely states the consequences of their actions. It's the consequence for those who wage war and terrorize. 5:34 only asks for the transgressor to stop to be spared.

6- Fight and Tax every Non-Muslim:

{Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued} {9:29}

Answer:

the correct translation:

{Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture, until they give the jizya willingly while they are humbled} {9:29}

first of all, (even if they are) doesn't even exist in the Qur'an, rather it is ( From the people of the Book ) thus this does not promote fighting Every Christian and Jew, let's explain this thoroughly:


Explanation:

in the Qur'an, not believing in Judgement Day automatically makes you an unbeliever in God, ( Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day ) refers to Jews, while ( nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Messenger ) refers to Christians, This verse was revealed when the Jews of Medina back stabbed the Muslims when they were in the Battle of Badr, and when the Romans executed The Emissaries sent to them by Muhammad, after the Battle of Badr, the Muslims came back to Medina and besieged the Jews for several days, the Jews surrendered and Banu Qaynuqa' ( the Jewish Tribe responsible for the back stabbing ) was exiled, the rest of the Jews renewed the Treaty with the Muslims and payed Jizya, as for the Roman Christians, Muhammad sent an Army to them to take revenge, which resulted in the Battle of Mu'tah [3] ,

It is usually portrayed by certain critics that jizya is a mechanism for discriminating non-muslims in an Islamic-society. This is a common misconception; jizya is a political method dealing with finance.


One of the main pillars of Islam is called Zakat (Muslims whose wealth is above a certain limit must pay a percentage of it (in most cases 2.5%) to the poor and needy). Islam does not “force” upon non-muslims to follow one of it’s main pillar. This certainly quietens some critics who would otherwise be accusing Islam of imposing itself on them. Just like in a non-muslim society muslims pay tax, likewise non-muslims are obliged to pay certain percentage of their money to the Islamic State. It is quite hypocritical of non-muslims to criticize Jizya, whilst, in non-muslims countries muslims have to pay tax. If tax is justified then so should jizya be.

7- Osama Bin Laden must've read this:

{I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips off them. This because they contend against God and his apostle…} {8:12-13}

Answer:

Context:

{When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger. That is because they opposed Allah and His messenger} {8:12-16}

Explanation:

Dear Jihadists, This is not an order to the Human believers, if however you see yourself as angels then your place is in the Heavens, not Earth, go smite some necks there.


8- Do not befriend Christians and Juice:

{O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends} {5:51}

Answer:

The arabic word "Awliya" (أَوْلِيَاءْ) is mistranslated by Pickthal. Awliya means “Protectors”, Various Translations translate it as:

{O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for Masters }

{O ye who believe! Do not Accept the Jews and the Christians as Lords }

Explanation:

the word “Awliya” is a plural and its singular is “wali” (وَالِيْ) .The correct translation of the word “”wali”” according to the Dictionaries is not “friend” but it means “guardian, protector, patron, lord and master.” besides, we ( TWC members who played M2:TW ) know what Friend in Arabic is, yep, it's Sadeeq ( صَدِيقْ ) , and Plural is Asdiqaa' ( أَصْدِقَاءْ ) , no way does this word or any other word in Arabic ( like Ashab ) that can possibly mean Friend exist in this Verse, and if there are Some muslims here that believe this, then explain to me what this verse means please:

{God forbids you not, With regard to those who Fight you not for your Faith Nor drive you out Of your homes, From dealing kindly and justly With them: For God loveth Those who are just} {60:8}

and please also explain how muslims are permitted to marry Jewish and Christian Women if they are not to befriend them..

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Verses that Prohibit killing non-muslims or treating them badly:

The so-called Islamic State forgot to implement those commands:

{You will surely be tested in your wealth and properties and in your personal selves, and you shall certainly hear much that will grieve you from those who received the Scripture before you , and from those who ascribe partners to God, but if you persevere patiently, and fear God, then verily, that is an indication of true resolve concerning His Commands} {3:186}

{Remind them, O Prophet! , your task is only to Remind; you cannot compel them to believe} {88:21}

{do not kill any soul which God has forbidden, except for a just cause} {17:33}

{To every people have We appointed ceremonial rites of prayer which they observe; therefore, let them not wrangle over this matter with you, but bid them to turn to your Lord, You indeed are rightly guided. But if they still dispute you in this matter, then say, `God best knows the value of what you do."

{O ye who believe! Be steadfast witnesses for God in equity, and let not hatred of any people seduce you that ye deal not justly. Deal justly, that is nearer to your duty. Observe your duty to God. Lo! God is Informed of what ye do. God hath promised those who believe and do good works: Theirs will be forgiveness and immense reward. {5:8-9}

{those who have been expelled from their homes without right , only because they say: "Our Lord is Allah ." For had it not been that God checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, wherein the Name of God is much Praised, would surely have been destroyed, And God will surely give victory to those who vindicate Him. Indeed, God is Powerful and Exalted in Might} {22:39-40}

{Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things} {2:256}

{if they turn away from you, O Prophet! remember that your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message entrusted to you} { 16:82 }

{if God had pleased, they would not have set up other Gods with Him, We have not appointed you a keeper over them, and you are not placed in charge of them} { 6:107 }

{"I have come to you as a clear Warner. That you not worship except Allah . Indeed, I fear for you the punishment of a painful day." So the eminent among those who disbelieved from his people said, " We do not see you but as a man like ourselves, and we do not see you followed except by those who are the lower than us at first suggestion. And we do not see in you over us any merit; rather, we think you are liars! He said: O my people! Tell me, if I have a clear proof from my Lord, and a Mercy has come to me from Him, but that Mercy has been obscured from your sight. Do we Force it on you when you have a strong hatred for it? { 11:28 }

{O Prophet! We have not sent you except to be a mercy to all mankind:" Declare that, "Verily, what is revealed to me is this, your God is the only One God, so is it not up to you to bow down to Him?' But if they turn away then say, "I have delivered the Truth in a manner clear to one and all, and I know not whether the promised hour ( Day of Judgment) is near or far."


Hadiths:

"Beware on the Day of Judgement! I shall myself be complainant against him who wrongs a Non-Believer, or lays on him a responsibility greater than he can bear or deprives him of anything that belongs to him." { Bukhari Kitab Ahl Al-Thimmah }

"Whoever hurts a Non-believer hurts me, and he who hurts me angers God" { Bukhari , Kitab Ahl Al-Thimmah }

“It is better for a leader to make a mistake in forgiving than to make a mistake in punishing.” { Muslim }


Notes:

[1] : The Muslims who did not emigrate to Medina were prosecuted.

[2] : Crucial because many Meccan leaders were slain.

[3] : i already know, Wikipedia Sucks, don't even bother looking at the statistics, the muslims were more than 3000 and actually they lost more than just 12 men, i mean, the battle was like 3 days or something, 12 men in three days? you have got to be kidding me, even the Roman strength was exaggerated IMO.



thanks for reading, will update this as soon as i can.

P.S: Mods, if you believe it should. please merge this with any thread you wish.

P.S II : and one more thing, i want to ask this question to the "different Interpretation buddies", the Jihadists use these verses as a justification for their violence, they agree with the Critics of Islam, they are proud of these verses, do you really think the Above was different interpretations? i don't know, it seemed more like CHERRY PICKING to me.



take care i guess,

[Kraut and Tea]

Tell us more about your views on jews.

Your views on the principles of democracy and the secular republic.

Your views on homosexuality.

Your views on atheism.

Your views on modern science.

Your views on the holocaust and the issue of jewish safety.

Your views on the principles of human dignity received through the concept of equal right given by the enlightenment.

Your views on reason and the method of rational critizism as used to establish and justify methods of modern science and the concept of democracy.

Because I dont give a damn about what you can quote and interpret out from your religious book.

The old testament says that a woman who interupts a man should have her hands chopped off

The new testament says that non christians should be burnt alive.

The book of mormon says that black people are cursed and satanic.

But we do not see jews runing arround cutting womens hands off, christians burning non christians alive or mormons inforcing apartheit where they are the majority population.

Israel is a secular republic with a functioning government through representation.

The christian world is majority democratic and peacefull.

And there is no "Mormon State" selling non-mormon children into slavery in Utha.

Instead we see ISIS.

[Phier]

3- Continue Jihad while i watch you from Above:

{smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have slaughtered them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by God to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam} {47:4}

Answer:

some insist on using this very poor translation of the Quran with the additions, However, almost all of the major translations are contrary to the above translation, let's see what it really says:

{when ye meet the Unbelievers in Battle, ---->[strike at their necks, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly on them, thereafter is the time for either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are ye commanded, but if it had been Allah’s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them Himself; but He lets you fight in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost<----} {47:4}

Explanation:

Nowhere does the Qur'an make any mention of ”killing and wounding” and “Thus are you commanded by God to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam”, those are not found in the Quran.
The context of this verse was when the Muslims were to fight their enemies for their very existence. After thirteen years of Torment and Persecution , the prophet and his companions had to leave their home town of Mecca and emigrate to Yathrib ( now Medina ). When the people of Yathrib had welcomed him there and he was accepted as a leader there, the Meccans became unhappy. They wanted to eliminate Muhammad and his religion; and so they sent their army to root out Islam. And the crucial battle took place in Badr.

Once again, the context is of war and battle here and therefore killing of innocent people is not prescribed. Naturally, in war people would be expected to fight and kill, therefore “strike at their necks” is only natural.

http://corpus.quran.com/translation....ter=47&verse=4

Lots of bad translations I guess.

[clone]

Tell us more about your views on jews.

Your views on the principles of democracy and the secular republic.

Your views on homosexuality.

Your views on atheism.

Your views on modern science.

Your views on the holocaust and the issue of jewish safety.

Your views on the principles of human dignity received through the concept of equal right given by the enlightenment.

Your views on reason and the method of rational critizism as used to establish and justify methods of modern science and the concept of democracy.

Because I dont give a damn about what you can quote and interpret out from your religious book.

The old testament says that a woman who interupts a man should have her hands chopped off

The new testament says that non christians should be burnt alive.

The book of mormon says that black people are cursed and satanic.

But we do not see jews runing arround cutting womens hands off, christians burning non christians alive or mormons inforcing apartheit where they are the majority population.

Israel is a secular republic with a functioning government through representation.

The christian world is majority democratic and peacefull.

And there is no "Mormon State" selling non-mormon children into slavery in Utha.

Instead we see ISIS.

could you show me where in the bible says that non christians should burn alive

[Samraat Mahendra Maurya]

Instead we see ISIS.

Maybe, they aren't doing it in the name of god, but for power? If you look at the general geography where all terrorist organizations reside, nature is always against them and they probably have had some abuse or grudge they've held onto for some time without forgiveness, "an eye for an eye makes the whole world [20-20+ vision]" and just take this as an opportunity for a power scramble, It's kind of like a way to declare a cassus belli on their rival so they attract more support.

[Elfdude]

Pointless thread is pointless.

Does islam approve of killing apostates, atheists, and infidels? Yes.
Does Christianity approve of killing traitors, atheists and heretics? Yes.

Neither theology is really a problem until you start to live your life by them and though many claim to do so few really do unless the government gets involved. Your religion isn't any different than the flavor of religion the west has. The difference is the level of orthodoxy. Islam is significantly more orthodoxic than christianity which means, while christian theocracy and muslim theocracy are just as bad, there really isn't any true christian theocracies left.

[LestaT]

Does islam approve of killing apostates, atheists, and infidels? Yes.

If Islam you mean the Qur'an and not just someone who claims to be muslims then you are partially correct. Yes, the answer is yes subject to conditions and not just blind yes. Islam is not a stupid religion that do not allowed his followers to defend themselves. Simply said, if you want to kill me for whatever reason then yes I am allowed by Islam to prevent that from happening, even if it cause me to kill you. If not, then Islam does not give me the right whatsoever to cause you any harm, not just physical but mental too.

[Raubritter]

Oh so ISIS just got the context wrong. Quick, someone send them a memo to solve that huge missunderstanding.

[PointOfViewGun]

Pointless thread is pointless.

Does islam approve of killing apostates, atheists, and infidels? Yes.
Does Christianity approve of killing traitors, atheists and heretics? Yes.

Neither theology is really a problem until you start to live your life by them and though many claim to do so few really do unless the government gets involved. Your religion isn't any different than the flavor of religion the west has. The difference is the level of orthodoxy. Islam is significantly more orthodoxic than christianity which means, while christian theocracy and muslim theocracy are just as bad, there really isn't any true christian theocracies left.

Actually, no. There is no such approval. It's like saying Criminal Code of any country approves murder.

Oh so ISIS just got the context wrong. Quick, someone send them a memo to solve that huge missunderstanding.

So, hundreds of millions of Muslims get it wrong? Why don't you send them a memo?

[Kraut and Tea]

could you show me where in the bible says that non christians should burn alive

Jesus says that those who shall not follow him should be cast out like branches in the wind and burned.

Now you can argue over interpertation as much as you like.

The fact remains that is simple phrase was used as the justification for burning people alive in Europe and the Americas for hundreds of years.

@The Germans are coming

well, i'm sorry to blow your bubble but your post isn't related to this thread.



oh and err.. please tell me your not German? the irony would be more than i can bare if Germans question my views on the Holocaust just because i follow Islam, it's like as if it was muslims who massacred 6 million jews or something.

Oh lovely, please go ahead and mention the war.

Here is the thing about us, no society on the entire planet has spent so much time and resources into questioning ourselves and trying to learn lessons from history.

We are a people who embrace historic responsibility, a nation that doesnt simply try to forget it`s past but to face it and learn from it.

As such we spent the last 60 years beging the Poles for forgiveness:



Put aside stupid notions of rivalry and the suposed nececety of war with our biggest historical rival:



Made remembering the horrors of our past a consistant presence in our society:



And are the only country in Europe with a growing jewish community, with the UK being the only European country that is less problems with antisemitism than Germany:




Now answere my question and explain a few things, such as why Egypt hid the notorious SS war criminal Aribert Heim, and loads of other things comming out of the muslim world:











but I guess the fact that you just run away and refuse to answere any questions critical of what is the actual situation.

[clone]

Jesus says that those who shall not follow him should be cast out like branches in the wind and burned.

Now you can argue over interpertation as much as you like.

The fact remains that is simple phrase was used as the justification for burning people alive in Europe and the Americas for hundreds of years.

where exactly does is say about this

[Kraut and Tea]

where exactly does is say about this

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned."

John 15:6

[Cyrene]

Here is the thing about us, no society on the entire planet has spent so much time and resources into questioning ourselves and trying to learn lessons from history.

frankly i didn't know that fact but thanks, it's nice to learn new things.

We are a people who embrace historic responsibility, a nation that doesnt simply try to forget it`s past but to face it and learn from it.

nice to know, i hope every muslim country that committed atrocities would do the same, Turkey has to apologize to Armenia, and i would also love it if France apologizes to Algeria, and maybe even Israel on behalf of those who burnt the mosque today.

As such we spent the last 60 years beging the Poles for forgiveness:



Put aside stupid notions of rivalry and the suposed nececety of war with our biggest historical rival:



Made remembering the horrors of our past a consistant presence in our society:

I hope both Palestine and Israel do the same.

And are the only country in Europe with a growing jewish community, with the UK being the only European country that is less problems with antisemitism than Germany:

Reminds me of Islamic Spain.

Now answere my question and explain a few things, such as why Egypt hid the notorious SS war criminal Aribert Heim, and loads of other things comming out of the muslim world]

hmm.. that's very bad, Egypt shouldn't 've done that, the Axis Invaded their land in WWII so it's quite weird to hide their war criminals after that.

oh God, i hate those Sluts, they should be condemned and imprisoned as supporting such tragic actions is against Islam.

God bless the one who will convince her that Hitler is a war Criminal, thus unworthy of God's bless, what in the world was she thinking?

i'd be thankful if you can provide any proof that this boy really said this, if true though, that boy should be taken away from those who teach him such filth ASAP.

image is broken, try uploading them on Imgur.

Muslim Brotherhood, what do you expect, if you don't know that already, they are actually worse than Nazis, it's really sad that the United States Supports such criminals.

but I guess the fact that you just run away

no i'm on my Laptop now.

refuse to answere any questions critical of what is the actual situation

situation of What exactly? The Arab World? that "World" is messed up now, Thank God i'm not living there nor do i have to take the burden of their history from the past century, i'm not trying to be racist towards Arabs, but come on For God's Sake, seriously they have to do something.

[clone]

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned."

John 15:6

realy!realy! this quoteIf you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
you thing this tells people to use violence

[Cyrene]

realy!realy! this quoteIf you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
you thing this tells people to use violence

See! that's what i was talking about, wrong translations and taking things out of context, thanks for clarifying John 15:6 btw .

[clone]

See! that's what i was talking about, wrong translations and taking things out of context, thanks for clarifying John 15:6 btw .

i am not saying that quran doesnt have bad translations but also has some bad things by its self.
for example are the bold ones here bad translation
"the punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned;

[Cyrene]

i've already responded to that in the other thread:

@Clone


i believe my point went over you, if you read the explanation to that verse it's clearly not an order, it's like "those who live by the sword die by the sword" as it has been pointed out, the verse itself in arabic doesn't even have the word "Punishment" , rather it has " Jaza' " which means "Destiny of" , so it's clearly not an order, if it happens to be order, then it would contradict at least 20 other orders from the Qur'an and Hadiths that say to deal with prisoners justly, that's why i put the "release the capitives" Hadith in my signature.


The Qur'an has already gave two options for captives and no more:


{when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly on them, thereafter is the time for either generosity or ransom, Until the war lays down its burdens} {47:4}

[Denny Crane!]

The verse clearly states to fight those who fight you, yet do not transgress limits. In so sense therefore does it promote killing of innocent but allows self-defence. It further goes on to state “And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice” and “if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression”.

ISIS thinks it is at war with the west, and war allows them the ability to prosecute it how they will against the nations. They believe they are oppressed by the West.

Hence, once again when the whole context is examined these verses do not promote killing of innocent people in anyway.

Amazing what can happen in war against supposed "aggressor".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza

Turns out innocent people get killed when its justified.

...The next one is basically no defence at all:

Nowhere does the Qur'an make any mention of ”killing and wounding”

Striking at their necks is killing or do you think it means a gentle tap? Who would think that?

and “Thus are you commanded by God to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam”, those are not found in the Quran.
The context of this verse was when the Muslims were to fight their enemies for their very existence. After thirteen years of Torment and Persecution , the prophet and his companions had to leave their home town of Mecca and emigrate to Yathrib ( now Medina ). When the people of Yathrib had welcomed him there and he was accepted as a leader there, the Meccans became unhappy. They wanted to eliminate Muhammad and his religion; and so they sent their army to root out Islam. And the crucial battle took place in Badr [2].

Once again, the context is of war and battle here and therefore killing of innocent people is not prescribed. Naturally, in war people would be expected to fight and kill, therefore “strike at their necks” is only natural.

ISIS believes it is oppressed and at war. The context of unbelievers and submitting to Islam leaves it open to interpretation that you can force unbelievers to submit in a war.

More later. But a final thought is this. Domination and power and violence are so close in the human condition that having a religion founded around war and aggression and conquest even if you can argue that it was all justified and having poorly worded texts that lend themselves to people to misinterpret (that is why 86% of Pakistanis seem to and large parts of the rest of the Islamic world). When instead you could follow humanism, buddhism or Jainism or something else that absolutely is clear, without any shadow of a doubt - murder is wrong under any circumstance. Killing and subjugation could absolutely still happen and has done because that is the human condition but its less divisive.

[clone]

i've already responded to that in the other thread:

giving another verse doest justify the one i was asking you about

[Himster]

realy!realy! this quoteIf you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
you thing this tells people to use violence

People who wish to do violence will interpret according to their will. People who wish to do Good will interpret according to their will.
The same can be found in Islam.

This is the major flaw in any religion. The "guides" that are offered are perfectly calibrated vagaries to fit any and all situations, suitable to justify any level of evil or goodness.