rome nerfed in this mod?

[justicarab]

i just got the second tier of romanization (late histatii) and i feel like they're really weak compared to vanilla, is this intended?

[FlashHeart07]

Every unit in the game has had their stats altered to fit the idea of the mod. So yes they will properly feel "weaker" than Vanilla units. But bear in mind that for version 1.0 of this mod all units will be properly balanced according to their strenghts and weakness as it was at the time. an example would be that a phalanx is strong from the front but falls apart when attacked in the rear.

And everything above Normal difficulty for Battles will make the game uneven since on Hard, VH and Legendary the ai will get a huge bonus in their stats making levy troops almost equal to your elite inf. So for the best experience play battles at normal difficulty and the campaign set to what you want

[justicarab]

and i also feel like for normal every faction, even those with only 1 territory can field a huge army, 3 times my size

[FlashHeart07]

That depends on what your campaign difficulty is set to. Everything above Normal and the AI gets a bonus. On Hard I believe a single province faction can field 2 or almost 2 full stacks. So if you do play on Hard or VH, consider lowering it or make carefull planning when launching invasions.

[justicarab]

well with with even 2 principes i had a levy pikeman held in the front with 1 and another flanking it in the back, and i still lost. the pikmen routed the first then turned and routed the other

[FlashHeart07]

And you are playing on Normal difficulty? Pikemen are made to be very strong from the front. Best option is to hold them and have troops go around their flank and attack them from the side or rear.
Things will (hopefully) be alot better when the mod is fully balanced in version 1.0 . Attacking from the rear or flank will have a much bigger effect on troops morale.

[Augustusng]

Also in 1.0 pikemen will have greatly reduced melee defence from the flanks or rear, so they should take many more casualties when outflanked (doesn't stop them from turning around though. I'm not sure if we can really change that...)

[FlashHeart07]

Dont think you can. Unless you want to lock them in that formation like hollow square but it would then be stupid to have guys in phalanx not being able to move forward at all. Guess its going to be a compromise.

[KAM 2150]

Well if you compare our hastati to vanilla hastati then they will be weaker since vanilla hastati are ridiculously overpowered, like all Roman units in vanilla, pure fantasy.


Still, ALL current stats of units will be altered with 1.0 release and my battle system.

[justicarab]

i think my grammar made it hard too understand sry. what i meant was

I had two principes, one was holding the levy pikemen from the front, and i had the other principes flanking them from the back. the pikemen routed the first principes, then turned and routed the other.

i'm think i may have 2 balance mod conflicting, because my principes seem way too weak, i have radious in my mod manager but not activated, would that cause issues maybe?

[M@x1mus]

Mate what is your battle difficulty?

[FlashHeart07]

Think I misunderstood. Dont know if it can cause a conflict but I would just to be sure delete the mod you dont use or at least remove it from your data folder, that way you can be sure to avoid any unknown conflicts. Besides. It shouldnt take long re-downloading on a later time.
Though there have been reports in the past that pikemen are too strong, something KAM 2150 is working on and soon (No sleep, only work KAM ) will have fixed for version 1.0. Until then. Just try to adapt and find new ways to kill them. Javelin men are extremely good against hoplites and pikemen who are slow in formation and prone to javelins in the back. will kill them likes little flies.

[justicarab]

normal

[Lord Uxbridge]

Try hitting the pikemen with missile units and cavalry in the rear - especially javelins which kill very fast from behind. Worked effectively for me on very hard difficulty; just pin the pikemen down and send the missiles round the back, defending them with more infantry or cavalry if need be.

[M@x1mus]

justi i just did that. Normal diff i had 2 late principes and the enemy one thorax pike. I had 1 unit holding the pikes and the other flanking. I lost 5 men and the pikes were desimated. As u say maybe something conflicting..

[KAM 2150]

Could you list all mods that you use justicarab?

[TheOrangeProject]

It seems like - for some reasons - some have having problems with the romans in DeI. I never got why. As far as my experiences with them goes, they are really strong. Maybe its due to the fact, that i use the square formation a lot , while others seem to dislike this percticular formation. Basically, as soon as the battle starts, the formation doens't have any downsides and only offers solid/good benefits for the unit.

I really recommend using the square formation in combinations with javelins. You can even do two battle lines, in the front are the square formation guys, locking down the enemy. The square formation will create "holes" in the line of battle, enabling your javelinns to directly fire at the enemy - sometimes the units are not even facing your javs, because they are fighting the square formation.

The your pike problem is probably (or could be) due to the fact (thats the last thing i know about that, i doubt it got already adressed by CA/DeI) that if the pike is in formation, the whole unit gets the +defense stat. Which means, even if you attack them in the rear or flank, the unit still has this huge boost in matters of defense, making them really durable. The savest way to shut down a pike, is to shot them down. If you can't do that, bind them with the cheapest unit you have, since pikes don't do that much damage - unless you "push" into them (walking down stairs in a siege battle for example).


Edit: Btw. principes against thorax is a somewhat strange battle. Thorax=latest greek reform and often the best pikes for the faction. Principes are not bad, but by far not the best roman inf.

[KAM 2150]

I already changed how pikes work for 1.0, they won't get bonuses from the sides and rear

On my new stat system, units melee defence is boosted, for example Roman units have it around 90-100, while pike units in formation around 100, and hoplites around 130-150, but from the flanks, pikes and hoplites have actually lower stats then those Roman units

[scsscsfanfan]

great! can't wait until 1.0 comes out!

[Mimoxx]

Well if you compare our hastati to vanilla hastati then they will be weaker since vanilla hastati are ridiculously overpowered, like all Roman units in vanilla, pure fantasy.

Fantasy is nerfing roman units to a point rome is not the major power in the game!!! in open field and in formation Legion should be far better , whats fantasy ?