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Thread: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

  1. #161
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    In case of the room I actually think Tommy Wiseau did not make it intentionally bad, he simply cant act, write, direct, etc. And just goes along with the ride after other people say he did it on purpose. It's just too much of a mess even for that, I am not buying it.

    Still hillariously bad, but certainly not intentional.

    As for historical accuracy in movies, I'll take what I can get. Does anyone here actually expect ANY holllywood blockbuster movie to be accurate?
    In a way you can compare it to other genres too.. I mean.. in how many movies and series are cops portrayed in an accurate way? Or Doctors? Or criminal investigation teams?

    Personly I'll just take what I can get when it comes to historical accuracy. The more the better I gues, some creative liberties I can understand too. Sure, sometimes it does get bothersome when its clear they arent even trying to be accurate, but such actions just lower the movie to be a simple popcorn flick instead of something more than that.

    Here's my opinions on some of the movies mentioned in this thread:

    -Gladiator.
    It's quite a nice movie with quite some beautifull moments. Some nice battles without going over the top as much as more recent movies. The only thing really bothering me is that all battles are to the death. I get the idea they didnt want to go for a particular existing emperor and seeing how there have been many I don't mind Emperor Commodus being fictional or inaccurate since that is not what the story is about. Its about Maximus and the gladiator games.
    I gues Maximus is also a little bland though, hes kind of the typical hero character. Russel Crowe does play the role well, but I feel the role itself is limited. Still a fun watch from time to time.

    -The Patriot.
    While there are some nice images and battles of the period, it does disturb me how stupidly biased it is by how they go out of their way to portray the Brittish as pure evil. I gues to make a proper movie about this war it would need to be written by someone who is neither American or Brittish. I also feel they are not consistent with the tone of the movie. Theres some humor to it which is common for Mel Gibson and I do feel those parts work well, but it just gets too dark at times, mainly through the stupid evil portrayal of the Brittish. The burning of the church should have been left out, it would already have been a lot better movie without that. Its just too unreal.

    -King Arthur.
    I ignored that disclaimer anyways, King Arthur is myth no matter how much people try to prove otherwise. I just see it as an alternative telling of a familiar tale. The battles are good, I love how dramatic it can get and the knights have good chemistry, aside from Arthur. Arthur like earlier mentioned Maximus is that generic hero guy that lacks personality.
    It's a fun watch for the battles, I like how it can get quite dark. Yes the saxons are not accurate, but I quite like their leader. He has character and doesnt look like the typical bad guy.
    Guinevere was annoying though, thinking to know everything despite her likely limited pool of knowledge.

    -First Knight.
    I actually liked this movie, though would have prefered a bit less focus on the love story and a bit more on the knights of the round table. It had an odd style to it but I liked it, and Sean Connery is a great pick to play the king. The villains are also really relentless in this movie, employing many dirty tactics which actually does make them a force to be feared. Malagant is a good villain. Since the story is fiction anyways, I dont care much about historical accuracy here as long as it is more medieval. I gues the knight's costumes are a bit odd though and could have been a bit more medieval.

    -The Last of the Mohicans.
    Now this is a good movie. Surely there may be some small things not accurate, but clearly they really tried to be accurate with this movie, and at the same time it is a hollywood movie with a lovestory and a villain and everything. But there is so much more going on here, there is a lot of hidden depth to it that can be left open to interpretation.

    -Barry Lyndon.
    I gues this movie might practicly be the holy grail as far as historical accuracy goes, Stanley Kubric was obsessed with the little details after all and I love the authentic lightning that is used. It really gives a good idea what life was like back then, in many little ways. Like the soldier's wife who has not seen her husband in a long time and seeks the company of other men in the meanwhile. Its the kind of things that I wouldnt have thought of, but that make sense when you see it and hear the narrator talk about it. Beautifull soundtrack as well, this movie is a true work of art.

    -300.
    Doesnt try to be accurate so I don't mind. Its about manly men kicking butt, in a way it reminds me of action heroes of the 80's which I do miss in later movies. Definatly a movie that pumps up adrenaline and gets you all exited to kick butt in a videogame. Gerard Butler is very vital to this movie, he works great as the alpha male. I have not seen the sequel yet but from the trailers I already know it lacks such a person, and that is why it can't work.

  2. #162
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inhuman One View Post
    In case of the room I actually think Tommy Wiseau did not make it intentionally bad, he simply cant act, write, direct, etc. And just goes along with the ride after other people say he did it on purpose. It's just too much of a mess even for that, I am not buying it.

    Still hillariously bad, but certainly not intentional.
    He certainly did not bill his film as a comedy until after people lampooned it in the first screenings and it became clear to all just how bad it was. Before that point he marketed it as a true drama.

    That said, Rifftrax did an excellent rendition of the movie:



    As for historical accuracy in movies, I'll take what I can get. Does anyone here actually expect ANY holllywood blockbuster movie to be accurate?
    In a way you can compare it to other genres too.. I mean.. in how many movies and series are cops portrayed in an accurate way? Or Doctors? Or criminal investigation teams?
    Perhaps movies have a limited amount of time to do this accurately, but shows like The Wire were certainly able to build character development enough to make their characters very believable in their roles.

    Here's my opinions on some of the movies mentioned in this thread:

    -Gladiator.
    No disagreements here.

    -The Patriot.
    While there are some nice images and battles of the period, it does disturb me how stupidly biased it is by how they go out of their way to portray the Brittish as pure evil. I gues to make a proper movie about this war it would need to be written by someone who is neither American or Brittish. I also feel they are not consistent with the tone of the movie. Theres some humor to it which is common for Mel Gibson and I do feel those parts work well, but it just gets too dark at times, mainly through the stupid evil portrayal of the Brittish. The burning of the church should have been left out, it would already have been a lot better movie without that. Its just too unreal.
    No, you don't need to have someone who is neither American or British to write or direct the film. You simply need someone who isn't a biased hack with an agenda.

    -King Arthur.
    Nothing to argue with you on these points.

    -First Knight.
    I actually liked this movie, though would have prefered a bit less focus on the love story and a bit more on the knights of the round table. It had an odd style to it but I liked it, and Sean Connery is a great pick to play the king. The villains are also really relentless in this movie, employing many dirty tactics which actually does make them a force to be feared. Malagant is a good villain. Since the story is fiction anyways, I dont care much about historical accuracy here as long as it is more medieval. I gues the knight's costumes are a bit odd though and could have been a bit more medieval.
    I really should watch this film again, since I haven't done so in about 17 to 18 years. Back then I was much younger and perhaps far more impressionable. I remember liking the movie simply because it had cool costumes and a medieval theme. I'm sure if I watched it now I would gasp in horror at how bad it is.

    -The Last of the Mohicans.
    Now this is a good movie. Surely there may be some small things not accurate, but clearly they really tried to be accurate with this movie, and at the same time it is a hollywood movie with a lovestory and a villain and everything. But there is so much more going on here, there is a lot of hidden depth to it that can be left open to interpretation.
    Hell yeah! I love this movie. I'm not sure what I love more, though, the actual film itself, or the absolutely brilliant and beautiful soundtrack and musical scores.

    -Barry Lyndon.
    Yep.

    -300.
    Doesnt try to be accurate so I don't mind. Its about manly men kicking butt, in a way it reminds me of action heroes of the 80's which I do miss in later movies. Definatly a movie that pumps up adrenaline and gets you all exited to kick butt in a videogame. Gerard Butler is very vital to this movie, he works great as the alpha male. I have not seen the sequel yet but from the trailers I already know it lacks such a person, and that is why it can't work.
    Precisely.

  3. #163
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    I have to agree with 'Last of the Mohicans.' if there were inaccuracies I would easily ignore them, stunning cinema photography, amazing soundtrack, great acting, awesome battles... That chase at the end was stunning...

    Just reminded me of another DD Lewis movie which I love - The Crucible..

    Also ' The Dualists.' Oldie but a goodie..
    And - 'A man called Horse.' And 'Little Big Man.'

    I have a thing for films based on Native American (or 'first people,' if you prefer) history....

    Oh and

    GLORY.
    Last edited by Halie Satanus; November 07, 2014 at 09:56 AM.

  4. #164
    Påsan's Avatar Hva i helvete?
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    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    How about Joan of Arc, excellent production featuring a 100% overplayed Joan cutesy of Milla Jovovich.

  5. #165
    The Wandering Storyteller's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Despondent Mind View Post
    There is a lot of people who are prepared to challenge you on that. I like both Alien movies for what they are, however everything after that...

    Anyway Is it me or are Chinese Historical movies ridiculously more entertaining and at least capture the "feeling" of the era they are in, if anything they use the setting for something useful. I don't know there is a lot of horrid out there but I could still find better movies than in mainstream western cinema.

    Of course nobody beats Kurosawa for me, so far. Again it's not that he's 100% accurate (at least not in historical events, everything else is accurate to absurd detail) but he uses the eras and characters appropriately to tell interesting stories.
    Kurosawa is the best director ever.





















































  6. #166

    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    How about Joan of Arc, excellent production featuring a 100% overplayed Joan cutesy of Milla Jovovich.
    More like Besson wanted it that way.


    I cannot really see King Arthur as worst historical drama. Sure, it's ahistorical in its sets and costume but as a movie it is just mediocre, not bad not outstanding.

    Last Legion is a true cluster, no doubt about that. It is crazy in terms of historic settings, internal plausability and not a good movie outside it


    -300.
    Doesnt try to be accurate so I don't mind. Its about manly men kicking butt, in a way it reminds me of action heroes of the 80's which I do miss in later movies. Definatly a movie that pumps up adrenaline and gets you all exited to kick butt in a videogame. Gerard Butler is very vital to this movie, he works great as the alpha male. I have not seen the sequel yet but from the trailers I already know it lacks such a person, and that is why it can't work.
    I found 300 average and the sequel lacks the wow effect of the visuals, but Eva Green plays a great villain imo, funnily enough the most defined character in the movie.
    "Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
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  7. #167

    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    I'm too used to the smooth delivery of anime, so the dialogue tends to jar me.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  8. #168
    torongill's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    When you start including 300 and Inglorious Basterds in the historical drama, you might as well go Sean Penn and include Tropical Thunder.

    Anyway, some fine points:

    1. Alexander. Gaugamela is brilliant in its portrayal of both the battle and its tactics, as well as the general idea of the battle. Probably only the opening scene of Rome's Battle of Philippi can equal it in terms of realistic and gruesome portrayal of an ancient battle. Say what you want about the rest of the movie, but that battle sequence was pure historical buff orgasm
    2. The Patriot is even worse than Pearl Harbor. Still, The Last Legion probably makes for the worst historical movie I have ever seen.
    3. Last Samurai can be either very good or very bad historical drama, depending on the way you look at it. For historical portrayal of the rebellion, it sucks hind teat. From the perspective of portrayal of the spiritual conflict in Japan in that period, as well as probably the best large-scale portrayal of fighting Samurai, it's quite good.


    It makes you wonder, how is it that there's money for the Immortals, Rise of an Empire, Hercules, Maleficient and The Rise of the planet of the Apes, but no money for Gates of Fire, or a proper Midway remake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernicus II View Post
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  9. #169

    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    Oh yeah i forgot about the Patriot, freaking horrible and pretty much the most biased movie i have ever seen.

    Barry Lyndon and Last of the mohicans are superb both historically and as a film.
    Last Samurai is superb as a film. Dont know about samurai and japan's history in general so dont have an opinion on the historical accuracy.

    It makes you wonder, how is it that there's money for the Immortals, Rise of an Empire, Hercules, Maleficient and The Rise of the planet of the Apes, but no money for Gates of Fire, or a proper Midway remake.
    Im still awaiting for a film about the best general of all time. (Frederick the Great, and its my opinion i know)
    Then, as throngs of his enemies bore down upon him and one of his followers said, "They are making at thee, O King," "Who else, pray," said Antigonus, "should be their mark? But Demetrius will come to my aid." This was his hope to the last, and to the last he kept watching eagerly for his son; then a whole cloud of javelins were let fly at him and he fell.

    -Plutarch, life of Demetrius.

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  10. #170

    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfburk View Post
    Im still awaiting for a film about the best general of all time. (Frederick the Great, and its my opinion i know)
    There are no more Prussians to come and pay to watch the film. The really strange thing is that there's no blockbuster about Napoleon.

  11. #171

    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    Quote Originally Posted by torongill View Post
    1. Alexander. Gaugamela is brilliant in its portrayal of both the battle and its tactics, as well as the general idea of the battle. Probably only the opening scene of Rome's Battle of Philippi can equal it in terms of realistic and gruesome portrayal of an ancient battle. Say what you want about the rest of the movie, but that battle sequence was pure historical buff orgasm
    Agree, Alexander definitely has its merits. The Persians at Gaugamela could've been portrayed a bit more accurately, but I enjoyed the depiction of the Macedonian army and its tactics (hey, they actually showed tactics! In a Hollywood movie!).


    2. The Patriot is even worse than Pearl Harbor.
    The Patriot, as a movie, isn't that bad. Of course, as a portrayal of actual history, it sucks balls. A very similar case is U-571.


    3. Last Samurai can be either very good or very bad historical drama, depending on the way you look at it. For historical portrayal of the rebellion, it sucks hind teat. From the perspective of portrayal of the spiritual conflict in Japan in that period, as well as probably the best large-scale portrayal of fighting Samurai, it's quite good.
    Yeah, and again, when we ignore the "historical" part, it's a decent movie.


    It makes you wonder, how is it that there's money for the Immortals, Rise of an Empire, Hercules, Maleficient and The Rise of the planet of the Apes, but no money for Gates of Fire, or a proper Midway remake.
    IOW a comicbook adaptation, a piece of Disney fanfic, and pre-prequels for an infinite amount of lame fantasy franchises. Oh and don't forget countless Bible adaptations.

    By the way, has there ever been a proper feature film about Hannibal? Or the events surrounding the battles of Carrhae or Teutoburg Forest? Yeah I guess that's a rhetorical question.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfburk View Post
    Im still awaiting for a film about the best general of all time. (Frederick the Great, and its my opinion i know)
    Personally, I wouldn't rank him as the greatest. However, he was quite a capable ruler in addition to being a good general, and one of the more enlightened rulers in history. IIRC there's some German movies about him, I don't know how good they are, though.

  12. #172

    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  13. #173
    Henry of Grosmont's Avatar Clockwork Angel
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    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    How about Joan of Arc, excellent production featuring a 100% overplayed Joan cutesy of Milla Jovovich.
    It could be a great movie if not for many historical distortions and an erroneous presumption that she saved France.
    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    Oh and

    GLORY.
    Freeman and Washington saved this one. Although I cannot say that Broderick was bad either, it's just Lee portrayed Gould Shaw in a very clumsy way...

  14. #174
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Hibernian View Post
    There are no more Prussians to come and pay to watch the film. The really strange thing is that there's no blockbuster about Napoleon.
    Unfortunately that magnificent Sergei Bondarchuk film Waterloo (1970) was a box office flop, so Stanley Kubrick abandoned his own plans to direct a movie about Napoleon.


  15. #175

    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    Waterloo is an interesting film.. but its too specific... i mean it doesnt realy apeal to a general audience... that is why it floped, it is more of a personal project then a comercial viable film.
    Wich is fine, but as i said it doesnt apeal to everyone. imo.
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; November 08, 2014 at 12:00 AM.

  16. #176

    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  17. #177

    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry of Grosmont View Post
    It could be a great movie if not for many historical distortions and an erroneous presumption that she saved France.
    ...
    It's a long while since I saw it but I don't see where the movie does that, what it implies is that she is made a propaganda tool of the French which to my knowledge and given her still high profile seems to be plausible. I mean the main arc is her saving Orleans which she did, thus allowing the French king to be coronated in the traditional cathedral of French kings strengthening his claim which he did and him screwing her over afterwards which also happened.
    "Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
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  18. #178

    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    I quite liked Joan of Arc. Especially towards the end when she encounters something, don't know if it's her conscience or God, and he calls her out on her sins, selfishness, arrogance, cruelty etc.
    I admit that at the time very, very few, probably least of all herself, would have doubted her visions, but for a postmodern atheist viewer like myself, it makes more sense. And overall the movie is quite accurate, or at least more accurate than many other historical movies.

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  19. #179
    GussieFinkNottle's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    One of two for me. Either:
    -Enemy At The Gates, one of the worst films I have ever seen with plenty of attention focus on battle effects but none at all on the criminally inept script, woefully unconvincing love triangle, wooden acting and phoned-in performances. This was a struggle to watch to the end, and the others watching it with me left the room it was so bad.
    -Anonymous for the ridiculous pretentious mangling of history in the pursuit of yet another irritating conspiracy theory. When are people going to get over the fact that Shakespeare actually did exist as he appeared and was a genius? And as a movie it's not even a good/enjoyable dumb watch
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  20. #180
    Påsan's Avatar Hva i helvete?
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    Default Re: Worst historical drama film of the 21st century thus far?

    Well enemy of the gates got points for introducing the horrors of Stalingrad to the western audience. And the sniper duel was fun.



    BTW just saw Fury. That was a very honest historical movie. Perhaps we're over the "Merica rah rah" phase of historical movies?

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