Pope: Evolution \ Bing Bang Theory are true, Aliens may exist

[alhoon]

http://www.inquisitr.com/1568240/pop...eory-are-true/


I really didn't see that one coming.

Good for the world in general. Hardcore anti-evolution catholics will either have to admit that evolution/BBTheory are true ooooor ... that the pope is not infallible.

EDIT:

" The Pope’s statement reveals his view that intelligent extraterrestrial life has evolved in a manner that is consistent with “the plan of the creator,” thereby making it possible for extraterrestrials to act in ways that further this plan. The Pope’s statement is a surprising endorsement of the view that the activities of intelligent extraterrestrial life in the universe can be part of a universal plan by “God the creator”. "

So, the pope also believes we humans are not the God's favorite children made in His image. That's indeed, an interesting approach

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Wow and god isn't coming down and telling him how wrong he is? weird?

[Himster]

John Paul II said the same thing.
This is a safe assertion compared to many things this pope has said.
Hell: The Big Bang theory was initially the idea of a Catholic priest: George Lamaitre, the reason it got it's name is from contemporary cynical/secular scientists mocking his idea because they saw it as an overly Christian idea to begin with and had no place in science.
As for Evolution Pius XII took a neutral view as far back as the 50s. There is nothing new or radical here.

[alhoon]

John Paul II said the same thing.
This is a safe assertion compared to many things this pope has said.
Hell: The Big Bang theory was initially the idea of a Catholic priest: George Lamaitre, the reason it got it's name is from contemporary cynical/secular scientists mocking his idea because they saw it as an overly Christian idea to begin with and had no place in science.
As for Evolution Pius XII took a neutral view as far back as the 50s. There is nothing new or radical here.

ohh...
Then, if popes left and right say it, why people that believe that the Pope is always right, vehemently deny it?

[Sphere]

Then, if popes left and right say it, why people that believe that the Pope is always right, vehemently deny it?

What Catholics have you been talking to?

[Senex]

ohh...
Then, if popes left and right say it, why people that believe that the Pope is always right, vehemently deny it?

You're thinking of Protestant fundamentalists, not Catholics. Since the second half of the 19th century most European and North America Christian clergy accepted and adopted the theory of evolution. Catholics love evolution, for them it's even more validation of their beliefs and God's greatness.

[Himster]

ohh...
Then, if popes left and right say it, why people that believe that the Pope is always right, vehemently deny it?

If they are dumb enough to be creationists then they are also dumb enough to not understand the most basic/clear/fundamental tenets of their faith. You will find that such Catholics are thankfully a tiny, insignificant fraction of a percentage, fringe groups and individuals (who are only nominally Catholic) that have been overly corrupted by modern Protestant fabrications and the toxic influence they wield over media and education, specifically in the more backward areas on the United States.

[alhoon]

I didn't know it was protestants that had creationists in their ranks.
So, it wasn't that important news as the article made it sound.

HOWEVER:
" The Pope’s statement reveals his view that intelligent extraterrestrial life has evolved in a manner that is consistent with “the plan of the creator,” thereby making it possible for extraterrestrials to act in ways that further this plan. The Pope’s statement is a surprising endorsement of the view that the activities of intelligent extraterrestrial life in the universe can be part of a universal plan by “God the creator”. "

So, the pope leaves open the possibility for intelligent alien life. I updated the first post.

[mongrel]

John Paul II said the same thing.
This is a safe assertion compared to many things this pope has said.
Hell: The Big Bang theory was initially the idea of a Catholic priest: George Lamaitre, the reason it got it's name is from contemporary cynical/secular scientists mocking his idea because they saw it as an overly Christian idea to begin with and had no place in science.
As for Evolution Pius XII took a neutral view as far back as the 50s. There is nothing new or radical here.

Indeed. It would be nice if hardcore atheists like Dawkins recognised this.

[Roma_Victrix]

If they are dumb enough to be creationists then they are also dumb enough to not understand the most basic/clear/fundamental tenets of their faith. You will find that such Catholics are thankfully a tiny, insignificant fraction of a percentage, fringe groups and individuals (who are only nominally Catholic) that have been overly corrupted by modern Protestant fabrications and the toxic influence they wield over media and education, specifically in the more backward areas on the United States.

This whole thing about evolution is so fantastically ironic, considering how it was the Catholic world that, even up to the late 18th century, was trying to stamp out the idea of a heliocentric solar system in favor of the incorrect geocentric model. Let's not forget Galileo was put under house arrest for this very reason. Meanwhile, it was the Protestant countries that were the leading proponents of the heliocentric model. Now we have most Catholics who are totally fine with the virtually incontestable theory of biological evolution whereas many Protestants have joined the Creationist camp opposing it entirely. These are the same people who think the world is only about 5,000 years old, which becomes absurd when you have the notion that mankind and the three distinct eras of dinosaurs all lived together. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of their profound stupidity and ignorance.

I'm glad the Pope is willing to concede the possibility of extraterrestrial life, which the Dominican friar Giordano Bruno was a big early advocate for, before he was burned alive at the stake in February 1600 by the Catholic Church for his pantheistic heresy.

[Knight of Heaven]

Times change things evolve, religions too, once upon a time The islamic world was the holder of artistic, scientific legacy after the Roman colapse in the west.
Also a more tolerant system of goverment, with jews and christians in their ranks etc. Its all very ironic. Still...

This whole thing about evolution is so fantastically ironic, considering how it was the Catholic world that, even up to the late 18th century, was trying to stamp out the idea of a heliocentric solar system in favor of the incorrect geocentric model.

About that, i have some doubts if that was realy the mainstrem view in all of catholicism ( i mean the condemnation of galileu), since Pope Urban VIII was actualy an admiror and friends of Galileu, as well alot of cardenals and princes, closely related to the church, hell the vatican and the pope was a sponsor of galileu scientific endevours, they gave them money, academic promotions and titles and important resources from the Accademia dei Lincei. His beef was no doubt with the Inquisition, but even so, The pope
Himself was a testimony defending Galileu in the process.

There was also alot of reasons behind the condemnation, most was about the ways or methods used to reach such conclusions then the conclusion itself... you have to understand that Medievals scholars and scientists, believed in the ancient scientific theories of Aristotles and Ptolemy, so contrary to popular belief learned people in medieval ages believed that the world was round, and believed in the Geocentrism as it was structured by the ancient Greeks.

The telescope that galileu invented was something relative new, considered unrealiable by the standarts of the time, and often uncientific, as it was knowned at the time quite understandably so, that lens could deform images as easly they could amplify them. And galileu didnt help the matter by quoting and refering the holy bible to suport his theories, that realy called the attention of the inquisition.

Point being, while the inquisition was an horrible institution, the catholic church was still a prime sponsor and vehicle of science and learning at the time ( since the fall of the roman empire actualy), making certain assumptions born of generalizations that catholicism was always against science and scientific reason most certainely erroneous.
It wasnt, even at the time of the inquisitions, and well it seems it isnt even now, or in modern day.
Just wanted to point that out.

[Mangalore]

This is what we call "back pedaling" because they know they will be proven wrong by facts and reality. They really just smarting up not to look like fools so they just rather be hypocrits who ignore 1000 years of "absolute" truth claims they made and now claim their faith is still the same and relevant although they completely redefined their entire foundation to not get run over by reality. The entire "Man was created in God's image" was kind of an important aspect of faith until now they say the same thing about any alien as well.

I mean, good on them for recognizing reality when it kicks them in the nuts (in contrast to creationists ) but I don't consider this much of a moral or cognitive achievement since they still do just as little as possible to rescue an ungrounded worldview.

[Treize]

Hence protestantism.

[Roma_Victrix]

The entire "Man was created in God's image" was kind of an important aspect of faith until now they say the same thing about any alien as well.

Funny enough, I don't think the potential existence of aliens from other planets would technically disprove or dismantle the whole "man was created from God's image" argument. The Catholic Church already argues by default that all the other animals on Earth were not created in God's image, so that could simply extend to living organisms of other planets as well.

Just wanted to point that out.

I wouldn't contend with the main premise of your argument here. The Catholic Church was obviously the vehicle for preserving scholarship in the Middle Ages, especially the Early Middle Ages. During the Renaissance and Early Modern Period they continued to be a sponsor of institutions of higher learning and a diverse education (not just in theology). However, at the same time the Catholic Church maintained a list of banned books well into the 19th century, so while providing the vehicle for the progress of the sciences, they simultaneously and deliberately hampered it according to their strict adherence to Aristotelian teachings.

[Mangalore]

Funny enough, I don't think the potential existence of aliens from other planets would technically disprove or dismantle the whole "man was created from God's image" argument. The Catholic Church already argues by default that all the other animals on Earth were not created in God's image, so that could simply extend to living organisms of other planets as well.

....

Your approach would hinder all missionary attempts though. I do think that should we encounter another civilization the church declaring them to be not in God's image implies a good dose of racism and we then need to hope the aliens don't have death rays...

[Knight of Heaven]

I wouldn't contend with the main premise of your argument here. The Catholic Church was obviously the vehicle for preserving scholarship in the Middle Ages, especially the Early Middle Ages. During the Renaissance and Early Modern Period they continued to be a sponsor of institutions of higher learning and a diverse education (not just in theology). However, at the same time the Catholic Church maintained a list of banned books well into the 19th century, so while providing the vehicle for the progress of the sciences, they simultaneously and deliberately hampered it according to their strict adherence to Aristotelian teachings.

Of course, allthough im unsure that the protestants, or even the anglican church were any different... It all came down to politics and power though.
Its the midle ages we are talking here...

[IZob]

This proves human evolution exists. What better example is there now, than the catholic faith?

[Denny Crane!]

Indeed. It would be nice if hardcore atheists like Dawkins recognised this.

It would be nice if the criticism of Dawkins didn't come from a position of ignorance. I know fanatical types love to hate on Dawkins usually for absolutely no reason and it really makes me shake my head in disgust at just throwing derision and criticism from a position of ignorance. Astounding you lambast others for doing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L15e2sNZsU



Richard Dawkins sitting with a Catholic Priest talking (very respectfully) within ten minutes of how John Paul II recognised various truths like evolution and the different views of it in the church. They go on to discuss science vs non material ideas on supernatural and what that means to the priest, on where ideas can be found outside of science and George Lamaitre is mentioned at one point I believe but they go deeply into ideas like the anthropic principle and his version vs Dawkins questions. Its a damn good conversation and Dawkins is not ignorant of the Churchs previous positions or disrespectful of the Priest.

Of course, allthough im unsure that the protestants, or even the anglican church were any different... It all came down to politics and power though.
Its the midle ages we are talking here...

Agreed.

[James the Red]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXKxr...C1tSM73A0ZjYjQ

The Young Turks mentioned this topic, and of coarse they come off looking like a bunch of ignorant jerks.

I mean come on, the Pope says that the big bang is apart of Gods plan more or less and these guys are all like "herp derp, can't understand that reasoning, lol sky wizard!"

[Admiral Piett]

Some are saying that it was always a Catholic idea in the first place and it was only Protestants that denied it. That's false, it took roughly 70 years after the old earth theories were published for the Catholic church to even make any comments on it and some in the church who came out early in support of it were condemned by the Vatican. Many so-called Mainline Protestant churches had already become neutral or accepted it by that time. The distinct difference however lies with the Evangelical Protestants who continue to be rigidly literalistic in their interpretation of Genesis.

The Seventh Day Adventists, Lutheran Missouri Synod, Southern Baptists, Church of God, and the Reformed Presbyterians are the ones I can find that actually have it put into their doctrine of having a literal interpretation of Genesis.