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Thread: "Tu" or "Vous" - How did Napoleon adress his generals?

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    General A. Skywalker's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default "Tu" or "Vous" - How did Napoleon adress his generals?

    Hey mon friends!

    Does anyone know whether Napoleon addressed his Generals and Marshalls with the formal "vous" or - being the Emperor - he used to stick to the less formal "tu"?
    Or did it vary, depending on the kind of relationship he had with them?

    Merci!

  2. #2

    Default Re: "Tu" or "Vous" - How did Napoleon adress his generals?

    Easy, he said "tu" when he was pleased and liked them or knew them really well. For example, he said "tu" to Murat (his step-brother), Soult, Davout.
    But Napoléon also used "Vous" when writing to them or when he was really pissed off. Saying "Vous" to someone you usually say "tu" to in French is a very agressive move and shows how displeased you are.

    All of the marshalls and generals said "Vous" when adressing Napoléon except for Lannes who was the only one using "tu" when speaking to the emperor: they were very close friends since military school and this is the only known example we have of Napoléon crying when Lannes died after the battle of Essling.

    I hope that answers your question.

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    General A. Skywalker's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: "Tu" or "Vous" - How did Napoleon adress his generals?

    Thank you very much. That helped a lot!

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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: "Tu" or "Vous" - How did Napoleon adress his generals?

    I am under the impression the usage of "tu" in French only became more acceptable and common during 20th Century; still, proper French requires you to use "vous" in any formal situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
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    Default Re: "Tu" or "Vous" - How did Napoleon adress his generals?

    The revolution saw a radical change in manners from the flowery politneness of the ancien regime to a blunt informal style. Napoleon himself was known for his disarming charm and informality, I can easily imagine him using "tu" even in formal situations and getting away with it.

    Napoleon actually tried to revive some Bourbon formality to his court to add gravitas to what was essentially a group somewhat lacking in class. Despite that he remained the wild card, capable of insensitive abuse and sudden rages as well as weapons grade schmoozing.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

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    Default Re: "Tu" or "Vous" - How did Napoleon adress his generals?

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    I am under the impression the usage of "tu" in French only became more acceptable and common during 20th Century; still, proper French requires you to use "vous" in any formal situation.
    It was always totally acceptable, albeit indeed toward close friends (or less close friends if you were from the popular classes) or family. Or also between children or young people talking casually between themselves.

    And indeed "vous" remains the normal form of adress in formal situation.

    However it's also true that the habit to adress people of the same group age as your with "tu" rather than vous even if you barely know them as grown.
    That and the habit to use it with people who aren't especially close to you but with whom you have regular interactions (like people at work).
    I tend to dislike and disagree with that last one. At work either your are friend with some of your colleague and use "tu" naturally or you are not, and so using "tu" is hypocrite and a false comradship. Same (and especially) for your boss(es). Either you are friend and so "tu" is natural, or you aren't... Then "tu" feels like some king of enforced sense of belonging to a same group. Esprit de corps coming from the top of the hierarchy. I strongly dislike it.

    As to Napoléon, it should be noted several differing influence at the time where he lived.

    The very formal french way of speaking of the educated people of the XVIIIth century, a group of people Napoléon despite his native corsican and manners definetely belonged to.
    And then the fact that during the revolution (and especially among official and soldiers) the use of "tu" and the title "citizen" rather than any other ones or indications of rank was enforced.

    Generals of the period who knew themselves personnally certainly could have taken the habit to adress between themselves with "tu" during the revolution and only reverted to "vous" in formal letters or occasions during the empire.

    Same for Napoléon, only Lannes continued to use "tu" when adressing him when he was emperor because it was his own manners of speech and because they were close friends, but before Napoléon was emperor things were probably quite different (and hence why Napoléon himself may have used "tu" when adressing some of his generals/marshalls even though now the imperial etiquette asked for them to answer with something like "your majesty").

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    General A. Skywalker's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: "Tu" or "Vous" - How did Napoleon adress his generals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keyser View Post
    And then the fact that during the revolution (and especially among official and soldiers) the use of "tu" and the title "citizen" rather than any other ones or indications of rank was enforced.
    Was it still en vogue to call each other "citoyen" in imperial times, let's say 1812?

  8. #8

    Default Re: "Tu" or "Vous" - How did Napoleon adress his generals?

    Quote Originally Posted by General A. Skywalker View Post
    Was it still en vogue to call each other "citoyen" in imperial times, let's say 1812?
    Certainly not. In fact, people would have considered someone using such title as a Jacobin opposed to the imperial regime.

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