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Thread: [PREVIEW/BETA] 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

  1. #1

    Icon14 [PREVIEW/BETA] 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON




    KLA's Legacy of Alexander II - Macedon


    There is preview and beta of Macedonian units.

    My Macedonians have changed helmets, armors, shields and clothes based on historical sources.



    DOWNLOAD

    Steam
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile.../?id=330203770

    Total War Center
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=4149




    PREVIEW


    Historical sources






    Foot Companions








    Pikemen








    Shield Bearers










    Companion Cavalry










    Sarissa Cavalry










    Shield patterns








    Special Thanks for screens made by Tenerife_Boy.

    Have fun!
    Last edited by KLAssurbanipal; December 15, 2014 at 03:11 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    reserved

  3. #3

    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    Those look great KLA!

    I'm honestly no fan of the bright colors you use, I like them more toned down and grittier like in DeI… But that doesn't mean I don't like what you're doing! I think it's an enormous challenge to stay true to those few historical (colored) sources available, but it seems like you can pull it off, those new helmets and shields look really great and detailed so thumbs up for that

    Can't wait to see more of your work!

  4. #4

    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    Thank you.

    This is preview of Macedon. They loved colours more than other Hellenistic factions. There are 5 "colored" units, but other Macedonians will be unpainted. Royal Pelstastai will be colored, too. Greek states will be toned down. Ptolemies and Seleucids will be colored, but not the same level as Macedon.

    I have specific Seleucids, Ptolemies, Baktrians, Pontus, Spartans (released), Athens, Syracuse, Massalia. I need idea for Epirus, because this faction looks similar to Macedon.

  5. #5
    Hoplite of Ilis's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    Very nice colors! Really beautifull! You know what? I play Rome 2 only with Hellenistic factions - and Rome and Carthage of course. It's mods like these that make me play over and over with the same factions. Well, other than that I like formations and stuff, and I'd do it anyways .

  6. #6

    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    This is outstanding work!
    What about compatibility with mods, such as RTR?
    Last edited by Demon Soul; October 23, 2014 at 02:06 PM.

    "najłatwiej i najpiękniej nie gnębić drugich, ale samemu nad sobą pracować, żeby być możliwie jak najlepszym" Sokrates

  7. #7
    Laetus
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    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    always love your work! great for teaching my students on ancient history and the bible!
    lyon!

  8. #8

    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    Nice to see you've released this masterpiece KLA. Sorry I can't be of any help.

    I wish I'd had time to play Rome 2 so I could test them

  9. #9

    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    I don't think bronze helms were painted... there was no reason to do it and bronze itself is shining and good looking. These painted soldiers together look a bit clowns and much less martial. I don't know if it is historical but I prefer bronze shiny armors.
    https://www.youtube.com/user/andrew881thebest youtube channel dedicated to rome 2 machinimas and movie battle

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeOCm5MJJ14 battle in Germany from "Gladiator" movie remade

  10. #10

    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    Quote Originally Posted by andrew881thebest View Post
    I don't think bronze helms were painted... there was no reason to do it and bronze itself is shining and good looking. These painted soldiers together look a bit clowns and much less martial. I don't know if it is historical but I prefer bronze shiny armors.
    Did you look at the sources he posted?

    There is ample evidence that in the Hellenistic world helmets were sometimes painted. To what extent is debatable, but it did happen.

  11. #11
    Wallachian's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    This is so beautiful and I don't even play Rome 2! I wish this was integrated into one of the big mods like DEI or RTR.

  12. #12

    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    Super Looking forward to it!
    But these horses kannste remove armor?
    Fits any how not to your tab.

  13. #13

    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    Quote Originally Posted by Grauman View Post
    But these horses kannste remove armor?
    Fits any how not to your tab.
    The Antigonid companion cavalry (edit: I believe) are known to have used horse armor, so I wouldn't really remove them… But indeed those bland looking horses don't do justice to the detailed riders on top of them. If possible I think removing those way too big plumes on the horse's heads would already be a big improvement.

    Avetis is making new (more detailed) armored horses, perhaps when he starts making some for the Hellenic "semi-cataphract cavalry" these could be integrated? I even think it's possible to just combine the two mods since KLA only uses existing units, and so does Avetis (yet he only changes the horses if I'm right).
    Last edited by Faldor; October 28, 2014 at 06:45 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    Quote Originally Posted by Faldor View Post
    Those look great KLA!

    I'm honestly no fan of the bright colors you use, I like them more toned down and grittier like in DeI… But that doesn't mean I don't like what you're doing! I think it's an enormous challenge to stay true to those few historical (colored) sources available, but it seems like you can pull it off, those new helmets and shields look really great and detailed so thumbs up for that

    Can't wait to see more of your work!
    I agree also with your view. The bright colors seem to take away from a reality visual experience.

  15. #15

    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    Very nice preview! I like how you've made good use of historical sources and haven't shied away from using some brighter colours for the helmets and shields. However I do think it would be a good idea to include more bronze and iron helmets, there are hardly any compared to the coloured helmets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faldor View Post
    The Antigonid companion cavalry are known to have used horse armor, so I wouldn't really remove them… But indeed those bland looking horses don't do justice to the detailed riders on top of them. If possible I think removing those way too big plumes on the horse's heads would already be a big improvement.

    Avetis is making new (more detailed) armored horses, perhaps when he starts making some for the Hellenic "semi-cataphract cavalry" these could be integrated? I even think it's possible to just combine the two mods since KLA only uses existing units, and so does Avetis (yet he only changes the horses if I'm right).
    Do you have any links to evidence about the Antigonid companion cavalry using horse armour? I'm genuinely quite curious.

  16. #16

    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    Quote Originally Posted by Super7700 View Post
    Do you have any links to evidence about the Antigonid companion cavalry using horse armour? I'm genuinely quite curious.
    Well unfortunately I don't, despite the effort to find one :p
    It's something I've grown to believe after spending some time on the forums, and playing mods. Namely that successor cavalry would have adapted the cataphract equipment in some way (mostly just by giving their horses front pieces (like a horse-breast plate), so not really cataphract horses), to be able to compete against each other. I don't think entirely unarmored companions (that is their horses) would have stood a chance against the more heavily armored Seleucid cavalry.

    I do have a link to a "popularized" article, based on historical sources however, that denotes the Antigonid bodyguard cavalry of Philip V's time (the so called Hiera Ile) as having wielded shields and javelins instead of the Sarissa. I always found this quite intriguing, and it could offer an alternative to the Aspis Companions already in game, as well as tactical variety for the Antigonid cavalry.

    http://deadliestblogger.scout.com/st...tigonids?s=534

  17. #17

    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    Quote Originally Posted by Faldor View Post
    Well unfortunately I don't, despite the effort to find one :p
    It's something I've grown to believe after spending some time on the forums, and playing mods. Namely that successor cavalry would have adapted the cataphract equipment in some way (mostly just by giving their horses front pieces (like a horse-breast plate), so not really cataphract horses), to be able to compete against each other. I don't think entirely unarmored companions (that is their horses) would have stood a chance against the more heavily armored Seleucid cavalry.

    I do have a link to a "popularized" article, based on historical sources however, that denotes the Antigonid bodyguard cavalry of Philip V's time (the so called Hiera Ile) as having wielded shields and javelins instead of the Sarissa. I always found this quite intriguing, and it could offer an alternative to the Aspis Companions already in game, as well as tactical variety for the Antigonid cavalry.

    http://deadliestblogger.scout.com/st...tigonids?s=534
    As far as I'm aware the Macedonians never encountered the Seleucid cataphracts in battle, so I don't believe the Hiera Ile had to ever compete with heavily armoured cavalry. Furthermore, the idea that Philip's Hiera Ile were armed with shields and javelins suggests to me that they weren't used as shock cavalry and so would have had little need for horse armour.

  18. #18

    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    Quote Originally Posted by Super7700 View Post
    As far as I'm aware the Macedonians never encountered the Seleucid cataphracts in battle, so I don't believe the Hiera Ile had to ever compete with heavily armoured cavalry. Furthermore, the idea that Philip's Hiera Ile were armed with shields and javelins suggests to me that they weren't used as shock cavalry and so would have had little need for horse armour.
    You misread my post.

    The part of my post about the Hiera Ile actually has nothing to do with the discussion about wether or not horse armor was used by Antigonids. The way I see it this source suggests that the bodyguard cavalry (= Hiera Ile = Sacred squadron) was armed this way. There's no mention of the remaining Antigonid heavy cavalry (except that they were scarce at at that time, due to the lack of horses in the Macedonian mainland).

    To come back to the Antidonid companions: I likewise haven't found a source yet that denies the use of armored horses around that time. The way I see it it's more a matter of guessing what could have been the custom. Either their horses wore armor, following the trend of the Seleucids (which was a major, arguably the most powerful Successor state at that time), or they were still riding unarmored horses like the original companions. As I suggested in my first post I'm for a compromise: a lighter form of horse armor, only things like the chest and eventually top of the head protected (so not at all full cataphract armor).

    But then again it's up to KLA to decide


    Edit: Here are the ones made by Avetis:

    Last edited by Faldor; October 29, 2014 at 02:51 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    I think the Hiera Ile is actually relevant to the discussion of horse armour, given that they were Macedon's most elite cavalry. If the elite cavalry adapted from a shock role into what seems to be a skirmishing role, I would assume that the other Antigonid cavalry followed suit, and therefore had little need for horse armour. You say that they may have followed the trend of the Seleucids, but I find this unlikely because of the limited military contact between the two empires, and also because the Antigonid elite cavalry seem to have evolved very differently to the Seleucid elite cavalry which suggests that their equipment also evolved differently.

    When it comes to evidence, as far as I'm aware the pictorial evidence points towards Antigonid cavalry being unarmoured. Unforunately the evidence in itself is very limited, I can only think of the Aemilius Paulus monument and a Roman coin from a lot later which apparently depicts Philip V on horseback.

    But as you say, it's KLA's choice how to approach this, and either way I'm sure he'll do a good job. Given that there's very little evidence, it doesn't really matter in the end whether they have horse armour or not. As long as it looks good

  20. #20
    The Wandering Storyteller's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: [PREVIEW/BETA] KLA's 'Legacy of Alexander II' MACEDON

    KLA great mod!

    I do aplogise for not taking screenshots - I have been lazy in my task and need to be revived for this.

    I will post all the screenshots in your thread. Along with Hallowen style, and so and so forth.

    I hope you will like them.





















































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