Russophobia \ Putinphobia in the media

[conon394]

@Astaroth

I'm not sure 2 and or 3 are that likely. Germany might be dragging its feet but I suspect Poland would push back hard and fast. They been were pretty aggressive in the Ukraine and seeming (or maybe not) refused an outright partition offer from Putin. As key NATO ally with a lot credit with the US (in terms of joining our recent adventures) and one of the few NATO countries planing to increase defense spending up and over 2% GDP ... I am pretty sure Poland would throw itself into a Baltic fight (slow motion unrest or made up rebellion etc) right fast and force all of NATO to act.

Also with oil prices down Putin has less room to act. ~80 dollars a barrel hurts his pocket book. I dislike out close association with the the house of Saud and Kuwait and while their heavy hand on the oil pump right now is self interested in many way its also interesting that it does harm many of those we (US) are logger heads with from ISIL, to IRAN, to Russia to Venezuela.

[Basil II the B.S]

Yea, still playing that broken Russophobic drum. Come back when you find that submarine or the Lochness monster.

For the sake of Europe prosperity we need to dump the warmongering psychos on the other side of the Atlantic and finally become a more neutral entity in global affairs.

[Astaroth]

@Astaroth

I'm not sure 2 and or 3 are that likely. Germany might be dragging its feet but I suspect Poland would push back hard and fast. They been were pretty aggressive in the Ukraine and seeming refused an outright partition offer from Putin. As key NATO ally with a lot credit with the US (in terms of joining our recent adventures) and one of the few NATO countries planing to increase defense spending up and over 2% GDP ... I am pretty sure Poland would throw itself into a Baltic fight (slow motion unrest or made up rebellion etc) right fast and force all of NATO to act.

That's actually a good point.

Then again, I'm not sure how much Poland could really do against a Donezk-style insurgency in the Baltics or a full-scale "peacekeeping" invasion by Russia. It's quite likely that they'd do SOMETHING, but I'm not sure what exactly. Although your examples of them countering Russia with some sort of made-up rebellion of their own in the Baltics are quite convincing.

Basil, you know you have no leg to stand on when all you can do is throw around partisan words like "Russophobia" without any actual arguments.

[Basil II the B.S]

What actual arguments? Am I supposed to take seriously some phantomatic Russian invasion of the Baltic, Poland or similar even after the submarine debacle?
Persevering through a path that has been proven wrong is a symptom of irrationality. I'm not going to debate any of that crap. It's not worthy and it doesn't even belong to the mudpit.
It's not a current event, it's propaganda result of fear, hatred, brainwashing and stupidity.

And let's look at what this stance has achieved: it has damaged the European economy and made Sweden look like complete idiots. Good job.
No surprise here since they have long departed the world of common sense.

[Vanoi]

How much damage have these sanctions actually delt to the EU econonmy?

[conon394]

How much damage have these sanctions actually delt to the EU econonmy?

Some no doubt but not half as much pain as Putin facing for what the Crimean a sink-hole of needed investment. And with the house of Suad content to pump his budget is looking ugly

That's actually a good point.

Then again, I'm not sure how much Poland could really do against a Donezk-style insurgency in the Baltics or a full-scale "peacekeeping" invasion by Russia. It's quite likely that they'd do SOMETHING, but I'm not sure what exactly. Although your examples of them countering Russia with some sort of made-up rebellion of their own in the Baltics are quite convincing.

Basil, you know you have no leg to stand on when all you can do is throw around partisan words like "Russophobia" without any actual arguments.

Interesting point not only is Poland expanding its LNG capacity but it seems to over buying from Russia right now for no real reason. On balance it looks to want to either have the capacity to help Keiv, or the Baltic States in storage this winter or maybe is trying to make Gazprom look like an unreliable tool of the Russian government.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0SG5JM20141022

[trance]

That's actually a good point.

Then again, I'm not sure how much Poland could really do against a Donezk-style insurgency in the Baltics or a full-scale "peacekeeping" invasion by Russia. It's quite likely that they'd do SOMETHING, but I'm not sure what exactly. Although your examples of them countering Russia with some sort of made-up rebellion of their own in the Baltics are quite convincing.


Basil, you know you have no leg to stand on when all you can do is throw around partisan words like "Russophobia" without any actual arguments.

This is where Gotland gets interesting, troops there would effectively close off sea and airborne NATO reinforcements, the land corridor from Poland would be closed and reinforcements would be delayed. This in turn could lead to NATO not being able to project sufficient airpower in the region.

One thing is confirmed anyway - there were a foreign underwater operation in the Stockholm Archipelago, and there's no doubt whose operation it was.

[Heathen Hammer]

Where any invited? I think the battles going on and around probabaly helped prevent them from coming too.

Well, that's the fault of Ukrainian military, not the rebels. Rebels were not preventing any observers from monitoring the referendum.

If the Speaker of Parliament of a neighbouring state threatens to wipe you out (which Zhirinovsky recently did to Poland and the Baltic states)

Citation needed.

then you are entitled to be "phobic" of that state. However that's no excuse for tarring all Russians with the one brush.

Which is exactly what is happening.

[trance]

Citation needed.

Citations provided.

Zhirinovsky is a stable man, he's also under the impression that Russia should be ruled by an all-powerful emperor

[Vanoi]

Well, that's the fault of Ukrainian military, not the rebels. Rebels were not preventing any observers from monitoring the referendum.

Last time i checked the rebels were mutual combatants so the blame lies with them too. Again were any observers invited?

[alhoon]

A reminder: There's a different thread about Ukraine. This is about the media coverage of Russia which I find... over-eager.

[Heathen Hammer]

Citations provided.

But he was talking about hypothetical scenario, where NATO and Russia are at war.

Zhirinovsky is a stable man, he's also under the impression that Russia should be ruled by an all-powerful emperor

You forgot about the part where he wants to change the "tsar" every 10 years.


[QUOTE=Vanoi;14174319]Last time i checked the rebels were mutual combatants so the blame lies with them too.
They didn't invite Ukrainian military to invade them, so no.

Again were any observers invited?

AFAIK, its supposed to be other way around. Also central election committee of DPR hasn't received a single application from any of the "international observers". So its not their fault that none of them showed up.

[Vanoi]

They didn't invite Ukrainian military to invade them, so no.

Ukriane can't invade its own territory. You can't agrue it all day the rebels too contributed to the areas being a war zone as they were a mutual combatant.

AFAIK, its supposed to be other way around. Also central election committee of DPR hasn't received a single application from any of the "international observers". So its not their fault that none of them showed up.

According to what? I don't even think you udnerstand how election monitoring works. Observers not only observer the actual voting, but how the refendum was set-up, voter registrrations, and the post-weak elecitons to make sure everythign is legitimate.

And the eleciotn committee of the DPR could be lying. But that obsevers actually need to apply to observe an refendum. yourt source only invities them to the actual vote anyway. Observers didn't get to monitor voter registrations or how this refendum was set-up in the firts place.

[Heathen Hammer]

Ukriane can't invade its own territory. You can't agrue it all day the rebels too contributed to the areas being a war zone as they were a mutual combatant.

Again, rebels were not the ones who started the actual combat.

According to what? I don't even think you udnerstand how election monitoring works. Observers not only observer the actual voting, but how the refendum was set-up, voter registrrations, and the post-weak elecitons to make sure everythign is legitimate.

Referendum was announced early enough, so again, its not rebels fault that none of the observers showed up.

And the eleciotn committee of the DPR could be lying. But that obsevers actually need to apply to observe an refendum. yourt source only invities them to the actual vote anyway. Observers didn't get to monitor voter registrations or how this refendum was set-up in the firts place.

But so could the international observers. Your point?

[Holger Danske]

Yea, still playing that broken Russophobic drum. Come back when you find that submarine or the Lochness monster.

For the sake of Europe prosperity we need to dump the warmongering psychos on the other side of the Atlantic and finally become a more neutral entity in global affairs.

And associate us with an even more openly warmongering psycho in the east of whom we share virtual no values, that above all wants to reestablish the USSR? I don't think so.

[Basil II the B.S]

Did you even read my post? I'm fairly sure that's not what I said.
Besides, you seem to be overly eager to associate yourself with psychos on the other side of the Atlantic, despite they stated they don't give two about you.
And let's not forget how eager they are to associate themselves with even worse psychos in the Arabian peninsula. Double standards much?

[conon394]

But he was talking about hypothetical scenario, where NATO and Russia are at war.

Interesting thing in the first link hopwever

http://www.interpretermag.com/russia...nalist-groups/

"Stories in last week’s issue: A group seeking greater autonomy for Siberia found its web page, VKontakte community and Twitter account censored as well as an interview with its leader in slon.ru. "

So more 'Russian' autonomy good in the Ukraine not so good back in the motherland...

[Holger Danske]

Did you even read my post? I'm fairly sure that's not what I said.
Besides, you seem to be overly eager to associate yourself with psychos on the other side of the Atlantic, despite they stated they don't give two about you.
And let's not forget how eager they are to associate themselves with even worse psychos in the Arabian peninsula. Double standards much?

Just as much as you associate yourself with Putin, his Kremlin buddies, and their view on democracy and so forth. So yeah. Double standards, double standards everywhere! You sure as hell aren't advocating for neutrality. Not a surprising considering that the European right (especially the far right) have a hard-on for Putinism.

[Thorn777]

I think you are mistaking the fact that we just hate a former KGB Colonel who is morally bankrupt and runs a nuclear power like his own mafia enterprise as form of prejudice...we just hate him.

I think its rather that in early 90's Russia it took a KGB colonel to act rational and moral.

Rational, because for one thing the KGB plays in the same ball-park as the CIA and are not naive public-speakers with concrete haircuts. These guys knew the Jeltzin/USA path lead to the destruction of Russia and they knew the goodwill of Russia was continually misused by the central-planners from Washington after the fall of SU. They where planning to drain Russian oil/gas for nothing the coming 20 years ffs. While people where literally starving and the Duma was shelled.

And moral, because I think that was a patriotic movement from within the KGB. They firstly had the knows of how the world actually functions, and secondly where the only ones able to throw the steering wheel around.

Quite succesfully I might seeing the Anglo-American butthurt still going on till this date.

[conon394]

And moral, because I think that was a patriotic movement from within the KGB. They firstly had the knows of how the world actually functions, and secondly where the only ones able to throw the steering wheel around.

By which you mean massive corruption?

Quite succesfully I might seeing the Anglo-American butthurt still going on till this date.

Really where?