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Thread: Russophobia \ Putinphobia in the media

  1. #1
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Russophobia \ Putinphobia in the media

    I firmly believe that the news these days are capitalizing on people's interest on Ukraine to report any non-incident with Russians as something terrible and foreshadowing of worse things to come, in order to generate interest on their pages.

    "OMG! A Russian submarine may have been in Sweden!" Not important. The submarine could well have been damaged as the news report now. Not to mention that violations of national waters by the Russians or within NATO countries are common and nobody cares.

    "Russians are sending their army to their border islands in the artic!" ( Here ) Yeah, they're trying to protect their oil exploration fields in the artic after Sweden sent their military in the area to look for the submarine. Kinda predictable and within their rights. NOTE: A lot of people with good arguments disagree that Sweden could do anything in the Arctic. I understand and I agree. But the "in reaction to Sweden's activity" was what the article said.

    "NATO airplanes intercepted Russian airplanes in the Baltic!" ( Here ) So? The Russian airplanes didn't even violate NATO airspace according to the article. And again according to the article NATO regularly does that stuff and in neither of previous occasions the airplanes proved to be a threat.


    Seriously all these non-incidents reported as terrible news and warmongering do in my opinion is take the world's eyes from real bad stuff Russia does in Ukraine or to their own people. They also scare the public and ferment slowly fear and distrust between the West and Russia.

    News agencies, we know that a new Cold War would be awesome for your ratings. It would also be good for Hollywood. However, a new cold war would be bad for society, science, world economy and humanity.

    Disclaimer: I don't say that Russia's actions in Ukraine are OK or within their own borders the tightening of the government powers and the purges. I don't say that the submarine isn't a violation.
    I'm saying that there are incidents that are important, like Ukraine, Russia becoming more authoritarian and incidents Adar posted in post#14 (that never made it to mainstream news) ...
    and there incidents that are OK (like Russia bolstering their arctic borders) or not important (like a single violation of national borders and Russian airplanes using the international airspace).

    And the Media don't seem to be able to tell the difference.
    Last edited by alhoon; October 22, 2014 at 03:38 PM.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    "Russians are sending their army to their border islands in the artic!" ( Here ) Yeah, they're trying to protect their oil exploration fields in the artic after Sweden sent their military in the area to look for the submarine. Kinda predictable and within their rights.
    Maybe my geographic knowledge is too limited to understand this, but the last time I looked up a map, the ARCTIC sea was not adjacent to the BALTIC sea. And the last time I checked the news, the Swedish military was searching in their national waters off Stockholm - that΄s some decent way away from the arctic oil fields shown on the map. Also, I must have missed the threats from Sweden towards Russia.


    So, Swedophobia?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I firmly believe that the news these days are capitalizing on people's interest on Ukraine to report any non-incident with Russians as something terrible and foreshadowing of worse things to come, in order to generate interest on their pages.
    Who cares? That's all the media does when it comes to any damn 'issue'. Whether it's ebola, Russians, race-baiting, or literally everything the US ever does ever etc, is blown out proportion and made into bs issues constantly. It's all about developing interest and over-hyping things. Anyway it's not like there isn't any attention to the real stuff not being shown. Whatever you mean by that. And as far as the Cold War is concerned, at least in terms of the intelligence realm, that never really ended. It just took about a decade before the West realized it and about another decade until the West in the civilian world realized it.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    so.. what does Putin have to do exactly to another country so that you guys stop resorting to this dumb term 'russophobia'? i mean, do Russian tanks have to literally enter Kiev for you guys to realize "hmm ok well maybe this stance on Russia is well-founded", where are you guys drawing the line exactly? if Russia hadn't been annexing territory and sending unmarked military and spetznas while Putin blatantly lies on Russian national TV, maybe then i'd legitimately understand using the term. instead i'm visualizing this situation as if an unbitten person was in the same room as other people, some who have been bitten by an unruly dog that's in the room, and the unbitten person is being met with cries of "cynophobia!!" because they are anxious around the dog and keep their distance from it. then again, most of the people using that term have been forcing themselves for months to believe that the referendums in Crimea and eastern Ukraine were legit; some of it is trolling, unironically using the term 'Novorossiya' to refer to southern and eastern Ukraine, denial of everything. basically 'russophobia' as it's used here in these forums is at its core a fallback that's used when the whitewasher has nothing else of real substance to say.

  5. #5
    Finlander's Avatar ★Absolutely Fin-bulous★
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    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    Everything does not run around Ukraine nor should the events in Ukraine make the reporting of threatening behaviour elsewhere any less meaningful. I am not sure would I agree with you that the constant violations of national borders are "non-incidents".

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    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    "OMG! A Russian submarine may have been in Sweden!" Not important. The submarine could well have been damaged as the news report now. Not to mention that violations of national waters by the Russians or within NATO countries are common and nobody cares.
    That everyone does it and nobody cares, which I don't think is an accurate assesment anyway, doesn't mean it is alright. The incident is important, because Russia has, if the sub is Russian, violated the territorial waters of a country that isn't even part of NATO. The good old argument that "but others do it as well" is no excuse and never has been in the first place. Infact it is an lazy and lame excuse.

    You also ignore the fact that incidents where Russia has violated, or has come close to, violating foreign air space has been on the rise for some years now.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9d016276-4...#axzz3GscXf1ri

    http://cphpost.dk/news/russians-incr...ace.10752.html

    So, how is this okay? And how is this increase not important? Because Russia might be getting bad publicity?

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    "Russians are sending their army to their border islands in the artic!" ( Here ) Yeah, they're trying to protect their oil exploration fields in the artic after Sweden sent their military in the area to look for the submarine. Kinda predictable and within their rights.
    Kinda predictable, are you kidding me? You conveniently ignore the minor, but rather imporant detail: That Sweden doesn't even border the Artic ocean and they are looking for a submarine in the Baltic ocean. So basically Russia is deploying troops in an entirely different area, based on Swedish military operations in the Baltics, that have only been initiated because a (suspected) Russian submarine has penetrated deep into Swedish territorial waters.

    Even if there is widespread Russophobia in the media, Russia's actions are certainly not making things better.
    Last edited by Tiberios; October 22, 2014 at 08:42 AM.

  7. #7
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    If people don't like planes violating their sapce, just act like Turkey and Syria do and shoot down eahc other's aircraft if it even strays for a second in the airsapce of the other country.

    Thats not the bets option, but with these constant air violations i wouldn't be surprised if this ends up happening.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    so.. what does Putin have to do exactly to another country so that you guys stop resorting to this dumb term 'russophobia'? i mean, do Russian tanks have to literally enter Kiev for you guys to realize "hmm ok well maybe this stance on Russia is well-founded", where are you guys drawing the line exactly? if Russia hadn't been annexing territory and sending unmarked military and spetznas while Putin blatantly lies on Russian national TV, maybe then i'd legitimately understand using the term. instead i'm visualizing this situation as if an unbitten person was in the same room as other people, some who have been bitten by an unruly dog that's in the room, and the unbitten person is being met with cries of "cynophobia!!" because they are anxious around the dog and keep their distance from it. then again, most of the people using that term have been forcing themselves for months to believe that the referendums in Crimea and eastern Ukraine were legit; some of it is trolling, unironically using the term 'Novorossiya' to refer to southern and eastern Ukraine, denial of everything. basically 'russophobia' as it's used here in these forums is at its core a fallback that's used when the whitewasher has nothing else of real substance to say.
    Incorrect, given how referendums are legit and Novorosssiya is now a country, no matter how much you hate the "evil Russians", it is still a fact. Also there is no evidence that there is Russian military's presence in Ukraine either, it is mostly a rebellion by pissed off locals against the corrupt oligarchy and almost a century of ukrainification.
    Basically, you are justifying rusophobia in media with false claims, made by same media, that were debunked months ago. What a great way to prove the opposite point.

  9. #9
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Incorrect, given how referendums are legit and Novorosssiya is now a country,
    The reuslts of the refendums in Donteks and Lubnask could not be verified independetally. We have been over this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I no matter how much you hate the "evil Russians", it is still a fact. Also there is no evidence that there is Russian military's presence in Ukraine either, it is mostly a rebellion by pissed off locals against the corrupt oligarchy and almost a century of ukrainification.
    You just admitted in the other thread Russia did support the sepertaists. How did the rebels get T-72B3 tanks again?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    The reuslts of the refendums in Donteks and Lubnask could not be verified independetally. We have been over this.
    But observers were invited to well, observe the referendums.
    You just admitted in the other thread Russia did support the sepertaists. How did the rebels get T-72B3 tanks again?
    No I didn't, I only recognized the possibility. If they do, its a good sign.

  11. #11
    Aru's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    It's just going back to Western media practices of second half of 20th century.
    Russian media are the same, btw. So is the media of any two opposing counries in the World.
    Has signatures turned off.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    Quote Originally Posted by Aru View Post
    It's just going back to Western media practices of second half of 20th century.
    Russian media are the same, btw. So is the media of any two opposing counries in the World.
    This.

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    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    But observers were invited to well, observe the referendums.
    What observers were present at the Dontesk and Lubansk refendums?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  14. #14
    Adar's Avatar Just doing it
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    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I firmly believe that the news these days are capitalizing on people's interest on Ukraine to report any non-incident with Russians as something terrible and foreshadowing of worse things to come, in order to generate interest on their pages.

    "OMG! A Russian submarine may have been in Sweden!" Not important. The submarine could well have been damaged as the news report now. Not to mention that violations of national waters by the Russians or within NATO countries are common and nobody cares.
    So, how did it get damaged inside the Stockholm archipelago? It's not exactly an area where you "accidentally go" as you are highly likely to run aground if you are unable to navigate properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    "NATO airplanes intercepted Russian airplanes in the Baltic!" ( Here ) So? The Russian airplanes didn't even violate NATO airspace according to the article. And again according to the article NATO regularly does that stuff and in neither of previous occasions the airplanes proved to be a threat.
    Well, we have some other pretty major incidents during those intercepts.

    Like for example an Ilyushin II-20m almost hitting a passenger airline.
    http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel...rtikel=5856555
    The incident occurred over international waters on 3 March, as SAS flight SK 681 was on its way to Rome, according to the broadcaster. The Swedish flight changed course at the last moment to avoid the crash.

    The Russian aircraft did not appear on the SAS plane's warning system, but was visually spotted by SAS pilots. The aircraft passed within 90 meters of each other, considerably less than the safety minimum of 300 meters, SVT reported.

    The Russian aircraft was an Ilyushin Il-20M signals intelligence plane, Jens Olsson, a Swedish investigators at the Accident Investigation Board, told SVT.
    The incident remained under investigation.
    And practicing nuclear attacks against the capital of Sweden.
    However, on Mar. 29, the two Tu-22M3 Backfire heavy bombers, capable of carrying cruise missiles and nuclear weapons, and their four Su-27 Flanker fighter jets escort got dangerously close to the Swedish airspace and, at 2 AM local time, they skirted Gotland island, some 30-40 kilometers off the Swedish territorial waters.

    After they carried out their mock attacks (on targets in the Stockholm area and Southern Sweden, according to Swedish military sources who talked to Svenska Dagbladet) they turned back and returned towards Russia.
    The episode is similar to those Soviet Union exercises typical of the Cold War, when bombers carrying the traditional Red Star flew quite close to the Swedish airspace boundaries and got caught by Swedish interceptors. Such “visits” ended in 1992 but returned in 2011 when Putin resumed the long-range flights of its strategic bombers.


  15. #15

    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    Again the last 2 were in international waters. Miles away from any form of national border. Unless a treaty comes up saying "No military is allowed on international waters." then there was nothing wrong with the Russian air forces flying around 30km from the Swedish shoreline.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    What observers were present at the Dontesk and Lubansk refendums?
    What observers were prevented from observing the referendums?

  17. #17
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    What observers were prevented from observing the referendums?
    Where any invited? I think the battles going on and around probabaly helped prevent them from coming too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  18. #18
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraut View Post
    Maybe my geographic knowledge is too limited to understand this, but the last time I looked up a map, the ARCTIC sea was not adjacent to the BALTIC sea. And the last time I checked the news, the Swedish military was searching in their national waters off Stockholm - that΄s some decent way away from the arctic oil fields shown on the map. Also, I must have missed the threats from Sweden towards Russia.


    So, Swedophobia?
    Nope, you missed Sweden moving their military towards the artic too.

    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    so.. what does Putin have to do exactly to another country so that you guys stop resorting to this dumb term 'russophobia'? i mean, do Russian tanks have to literally enter Kiev for you guys to realize "hmm ok well maybe this stance on Russia is well-founded"
    Don't get me wrong, the Media do well in accusing Russia for Ukraine. But instead of focusing just on Ukraine, we also learn that Russian ships were in international waters, that Russian jets moved close but didn't enter a Baltic states' airspace and that Russia is moving army within their territory.

    Reporting on Russia's tightening grip on media, reporting on Ukraine even reporting on Putin mentioning nukes = good.
    Reporting on random staff and that Putin has been spotted with a sweater that matched the color of Sweden hence he probably plans to launch an invasion = bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Finlander View Post
    Everything does not run around Ukraine nor should the events in Ukraine make the reporting of threatening behaviour elsewhere any less meaningful. I am not sure would I agree with you that the constant violations of national borders are "non-incidents".
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberios View Post
    That everyone does it and nobody cares, which I don't think is an accurate assesment anyway, doesn't mean it is alright. The incident is important, because Russia has, if the sub is Russian, violated the territorial waters of a country that isn't even part of NATO. The good old argument that "but others do it as well" is no excuse and never has been in the first place. Infact it is an lazy and lame excuse.

    You also ignore the fact that incidents where Russia has violated, or has come close to, violating foreign air space has been on the rise for some years now.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9d016276-4...#axzz3GscXf1ri

    http://cphpost.dk/news/russians-incr...ace.10752.html

    So, how is this okay? And how is this increase not important? Because Russia might be getting bad publicity?
    NATO seems to think that constant violations of national borders are non-incidents though. Our borders are infringed upon more times in a day than Sweden's are by Russia in a year and everyone calls us paranoid for mentioning it. Lazy excuse? How do you think we feel when we hear that lazy excuse by every agency in the world?
    Why the double standard then? It's either "chill, a couple dozen dogfights per month in your airspace and in your neighbors airspace is nothing to worry about" as we are told for decades or it's "OMG! They went near your airspace! " make a pick.
    Last edited by alhoon; October 22, 2014 at 12:48 PM.
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  19. #19
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberios View Post
    Kinda predictable, are you kidding me? You conveniently ignore the minor, but rather imporant detail: That Sweden doesn't even border the Artic ocean and they are looking for a submarine in the Baltic ocean. So basically Russia is deploying troops in an entirely different area, based on Swedish military operations in the Baltics, that have only been initiated because a (suspected) Russian submarine has penetrated deep into Swedish territorial waters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adar View Post
    So, how did it get damaged inside the Stockholm archipelago? It's not exactly an area where you "accidentally go" as you are highly likely to run aground if you are unable to navigate properly.
    It got damaged there because... it trespassed Sweden's national waters. I didn't say they didn't do it, I say it's hypocritical to make such a hype over it when there are hundreds such incidents per year, every year by Russia that nobody cared for, for decades and that when others do it, it's still ignored. And I don't just talk about Greece-Turkey infringements here. USA also "comes close" to national borders of Iran quite often. And actually bombed inside Pakistan without warning a few times (although at least they killed OBLaden that way). Look at what importance China places to other countries national borders.
    But suddenly, NOW, it's important that Russia did it. When Russians were doing that for years as the sources of both of you show... nah, then it wasn't important.

    As far as "But the Baltic is on the other side!" well, from the article screaming "the Russians are coming!" http://www.examiner.com/article/russ...deploys-troops

    "As the crisis over a 'mysterious' and unknown Russian submarine believed to be trapped in Swedish coastal waters escalates, President Vladimir Putin is taking no chances that their Northern European neighbor will use its military to threaten discovered oil fields Russia has made claim to in the Arctic region. And on Oct. 21, the Russian leader has decided to react with force and is deploying troops and robotic sentries to the Arctic to ensure the dispute reaches no further than its current location."

    Russians, as the article states, put their military along the whole artic border. Well, good for them, it's their border. It won't cause WW3.


    Quote Originally Posted by Adar View Post
    Well, we have some other pretty major incidents during those intercepts.

    Like for example an Ilyushin II-20m almost hitting a passenger airline.
    And practicing nuclear attacks against the capital of Sweden.
    Now, THOSE are important incidents that I expect to be reported. Those are serious incidents that mostly everybody agrees they are important whether Russia does them or someone else.
    And yet, I didn't see them in the news back when they happened. Why? because nobody cared about Russia then.

    You tell me that they were practicing nuclear attacks in Sweden... and the Baltic states' various airforces weren't ready to intercept the Russian jets, but had to rely on the 16 NATO airplanes. That's how much everyone ignored what Russia was doing up to 6 months ago. Not only didn't the news that Russia was practicing nuking Sweden reach the mainstream news, they didn't even alarm Sweden!
    And now, a lone submarine, or jets in international airspace, or Russia moving armies to the Artic border cause frenzy.
    Why? Because the media decided to play on that hype.
    Last edited by alhoon; October 22, 2014 at 01:15 PM.
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  20. #20
    Portuguese Rebel's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Russophobia in the media

    This thread reminds me of that girl who dresses with over 50% of skin showing, sleeps with the whole football and basketball team, humps a guy every night and acts insulted when someone whispers "slut"...

    The problem isn't the media being Russophobic. The problem is the continued disrespect of national borders of all weaker neighbor countries by Russia. You should not expect others to treat you with respect if you aren't composed enough to act in a way to command respect. If you open yourself to be pointed out as a troublemaker you should expect to be treated as such.


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