Interesting! Some aspects of my submod would be added like most of traits and ancillaries but not the jizya and communities buildings. Thx all for shAring your advices and impressions.
Interesting! Some aspects of my submod would be added like most of traits and ancillaries but not the jizya and communities buildings. Thx all for shAring your advices and impressions.
Ohh too bad you are not including the Jizya and Communities into the Mod, they gave an unique flavor to the experience. I hope you will make a 2.4 compatible version of the sub-mod then. Plus you could further expand onto it, like Armenian/Georgian Quarters allowing you to produce some armenian/georgian units(representing the taking over the pre-existing military infraestructure) with heavy penalties to the settlements public order but giving you some juicy units
Yes, of course a compatible version of JKD would be improved and available soon after the releasing of 2.4
That's good. It is such a nice submod, I think no one would mind having it as part of 2.4.
The slave system of the Muslim factions is not relevant to the Christian factions. There is no need to introduce anything like it. The current recruiting system is part of Broken Crescent's flavour and it should be preserved as much as possible.
If you were to change something, I do not especially like the barracks that provide no troops but are necessary for higher barracks that sometimes provide troops. It is a hastle to work out during the campaign which non-troop barracks will lead to what other barracks where. Also ultimately by the time there are barracks that produce troops, normally in one's core settlements, the frontier has moved off. One possibility would be to have some basic-level and middle-level units available with very low frequency even from low level barracks. Perhaps similarly to have elite units sometimes available with very low frequency from middle level barracks. I seem to remember someone had a plan to do something along those lines (it might have been you) but it can be a lot of work, it could affect campaign balance and is not essential. A submod could be made later with such changes in the EDB.
Exactly Geoffrey. The difference of recruitment should essentially be put on the "frequence" but not as much as quality.
medium quality unit should be available but at a very slow rate for low level buildings, and at a higher rate for next level.
The problem is that I wouldn't have the time to rework the EDB...
I wasn`t planning to traslate the Slave System into Christian Factions, but rather make some sort of equivalent: Byzantine could get Latinkon-like Units and other mercernaries from a Mercenary Recruitment Center(or sorts), Byzantines hired a lot of mercs so is historical and it has been done in other mods, such as Stainless Steel. Crusader States could have those italian Factories in Cities with ports which could also provide with some Italian Auxilia-Units and sorts, the Vanilla MTW2 can sure provide such units. Also, since Muslims can get Askaris from Mosques(and all of them can, with Kingdom of Jerusalem getting Norman Knights) why not provide Armenia/Georgia/Makuria with a similar mechanism? That goes double for Armenia, that has a quite reduced cavalry roster for a nation which such a rich equestrian tradition...
I think the idea is to provide unique variants to each faction so they feel uniqueboth in and out of battle. Right now, while still loving it, I feel Christian Factions need a little love from the devs
As far as I am aware, there was no special building for hiring mercs in Christian lands, whereas there were slave barracks in Muslim lands. Mercs from non-Christian factions (Cumans, Turks and the like) and from heretical Christians (Monophysite, etc) were hired through embassies to their chiefs (as paid allies). Possibly occasionally some enrolled on an adhoc basis, like freelance warriors. At one point some Norman Barons were bought over personally by Alexios Comnenos with presents and offers of settlement. These are the cases I know and they did not involve a special recruitment centre or special barracks but perhaps someone else has better information.
The Crusaders mostly hired turkopoles. Sometimes Turkopoles, Arabs or Armenians were fighting as allies. Turkopoles are available to the KoJ. I am not aware the KoJ hired Normans but anyone who has information can post it.
Perhaps just slightly expanding the mercenary pools with an occasional other unit is an option and might satisfly those who do not like the AOR system of BC. One thing that seems to have happened is that during the various edits of the EDB and EDU, some units were removed or their stats were changed, probably for a variety of reasons. If anyone remembers what the issues were, perhaps you can post them to guide modding decisions.
"If you were to change something, I do not especially like the barracks that provide no troops but are necessary for higher barracks that sometimes provide troops."
That's what I did in my submod.
The single most important thing that needs to change about the way BC handles recruitment, is to provide more ways for factions to retain their own personality and style of units in tact throughout the game, with less homogenization from AOR units that every single faction ends up getting.
The worst thing about battles in BC is fighting with armies that are comprised of the same units. This happens all too often with the same common AOR levy units on both sides. Some units should obviously be recruitable by all factions, and a little overlap is fine, but others should be either different variants or unattainable by certain factions. Factions also need better ways of getting their own unit types recruitable in conquered areas, otherwise it doesn't matter what faction you're playing by the mid-game, you use the same units every time.
PS.
The best thing about battle in BC, are the highly individualized/faction specific units that you start out with. For example, playing the Turks of Rum is fantastically different from any other faction with their combination of "close bow" melee horse archers and "regular bow" skirmishing style horse archers. You really feel like you're a faction with an almost entirely mounted force and the play-style is unique. This should be emphasized, not diluted by homogenous AOR troops.
Are there enough slots to allow that many variants? Especially with added factions in 2.4 and 3.0?
For 2.4 the faction recruitment zone would be expanded, the bast faction units should be easily recruitable than before (but at a very low replenish rate for the first building level), and the AOR troops would also have a smaller replenish rate.
It would be great to see most factions with certain units from their roster that could be recruited beyond their faction's zone. EBII does this well with migration/colonist/settlers buildings, wherein a faction can have some factional troops in territories far from their original homeland. The system is complicated, with time tables in addition to the need to "build" something to unlock them, but it represents the movement of people and a certain faction's dominance over a region realistically.
For BC it could be much simpler. For example, the KOJ shouldn't get to recruit any secular knights or foot soldiers of European origin anywhere outside the pre-established Holy Land (and its ports), but there should be a way to build new religious order garrisons should the player or the AI happen to change history and end up controlling an empire after 100 years. The KOJ even has a built-in "native" recruitment section of the roster -- Outremer knights and swordsmen, but they aren't as well implemented as they could be. It would be brilliant to have those mid-to-late game units be the ones a faction like KOJ gets access to from a colony/settlers type "building" beyond their home borders. Then you would see KOJ armies with more appropriate troops if they were successful and expanded far into Syria or Egypt instead of being loaded with the same bland levy troops everyone is running around with, and vice versa.
You can apply this to most factions. Otherwise you end up fighting the exact same units, every game, in the exact same places no matter who owns them. The player can force more complex choices and logistics routes on himself, keeping armies mostly factional, but the AI never does this once it expands and loses all its flavor.
Last edited by Dago Red; January 15, 2015 at 04:36 PM.
Whoops wrong thread
Last edited by A_Su; January 16, 2015 at 01:10 AM.
Will this enlargement of factional recruitment zones be historically accurate?
Historically accurate: yes it should be.
This. I was about to come up with EB analogy, with some tweaks, obviously. But I am late, it seems =)
Anyhow. I do not mind if a faction's AOR is small - at first. But not in late game. It seems illogical that a nation that conquered 100+ provinces, has been controlling those provinces for 100-200 years, yet neither have colonies established nor other nations assimilated whatsoever. What I would like to see is some sort of dynamic AOR system, very much alike to what Dago Red hav already described.
Colos
Could we have this as an option at least? With some requirements like time controlling the region and faith conversion as Drago and Colos said it could be very refreshing at certain stages of the game. I keep maintaining army's factories to sustain the front that have to travel several thousands of miles by foot.
I think the BC could emulate EB inc ertaina spects, like giving to option to establish local garrisons which enable access to a reduced roster of factional units(with very slow replenishment rate but also providing a bonus to public order and/or religious conversion) OR to assimilate the local military infrastructure also enabling the player to have a very reduced roster of non-factional units(better replenishment rate but with heavy penalties to public order and/or religious conversion) Gotta be careful with the replinishment rates, certain Factions are already quite slow: Ghaznavids have to wait +10 turns to recruit some darn ghulams in their core punjabi provinces, making it slower there could prove to be fatal
Seljuks of Rum need some Archers for their town recruitment. Azaps are too weak , ERE overun them. Add please more Units to recruit from Town and not only Castle. Remove some Ghulams Cavalry. Give Example : 1 More Heavy Infantry and an Armoured Archer Infantry for Town recruitment.
totally agree with you, AOR is really fine, it was like that you know, you should had to move your armies from home territory, thats all the point and brilliance of AOR recruitment system, it makes you manage invasions more carefully
Also I wont go for free upkeep units, garrisoning army costs money, also cheap miliatia units will be spammed by AI and will ruinn the game.