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Thread: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

  1. #1
    ostendadler's Avatar Miles
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    Default Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    Hi Everyone!

    First of all thanks for the team's work on this mod which really is a masterpiece of its own. Now let's get down to the core of this post.

    If Attila indeed delivers on all it promised would it not render Rome 2 outdated? Lots of what they are adding is either fresh or missing in Rome 2 (Family tree, events [seals], unforgiving AI, weather, defensive stance for some and offence for other nations) so would it not mean the shelving of Rome 2.

    This discussion is of course a pure theoretical exercise considering how we cannot be sure that they will deliver on Attila.

    DEI on Attila's platform could be a Total war fan's wet dream...!

    Anyway here are my two cents

    What do you think?

  2. #2
    Semisalis
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    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    Its the next total war title, it is supposed to be better. If mod devs make a roman era conversion of attila, it may be a hard hit, from only the standpoint of era, i guess rome 2 has a better one. Attila wants to be apocalyptic, im sure it has an awesome feature list, but they have to hold onto the list and not erase this and that. The "feature" of destroying cities totally is great, it really was half assed in rome 2, sure it wasnt an advertised feature. imagination helps in rome 2 when it comes to the non existing family tree, it sure is not logical for this era. One good thing in rome 2 is, you have few generals, when i played rome 1 the amount of generals was so high, i couldnt establish an emotional feeling with their stories and stuff for each of them, had to focus on 3. I could for rome 2 though. If they combined + polished the stuff in rome 2 and put it into attila, it sure would be a great game, but no preorder. Im talking about some political / family specific events, increasing the amount + variety, combined with a better story telling pointing at the family member / general that is involved would make for an awesome feature.

    People tell me im way too forward thinking, its a long way to attila, DeI isnt even in full release state (sure they cant turn a vw polo into a [no clue what the extreme is here])
    Last edited by Alu10; October 07, 2014 at 12:39 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    As I have said before, I doubt that this version of DeI will be fully converted into an Attila mod for a multitude of reasons. Divide et Impera is aimed at the specific Rome 2 historical setting of the grand campaign and has been built from the ground up for that purpose.

    That isn't to say that many of our modders will not want to do something with Attila, but it would make more sense to do a mod in that timeframe/focus.

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    Attila announcement means that Rome 2 - Divide et Impera team will have more time to concentrate on features and less on vanilla compatibility patches

    We will miss the unmoddable features present in Attila for sure, but except for that and the mandatory hype, its a time of maturity for Rome 2 and the era of the great overhaul mod can really begin.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    It's not worth talking about Atilla at all at this point, really. It's probably not coming out for another year, we have nothing but basic may-change-at-any-time information about the game itself, it won't be compatible with any current mods (let alone one as extensive as DeI) at all, TW titles are almost universally known for being broken out of the gate...I could go on and on. There is absolutely zero reason for the modders to think about it at all for a very long time, and when it does come out we can worry about it then. It's nothing but a distraction so early in the dev cycle.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    We only got some vague promises and screens from Attila... same as we got for Rome 2, and we all know how that turned out ^^

  7. #7
    Litharion's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    without proper campaign and battle map editing the Atilla TW will not work well with the 272 B.C. starting date. Maybe a Medieval Overhaul is a good idea for that Attila Game.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    Hmms? Obsolete?

    I bought Napoleon the other day and played it for awhile, and realized how much I missed Empire. So I reinstalled Empire and am really enjoying it.

    Attila and Rome 2 could be as different as Empire and Napoleon, looks similar on the surface perhaps, but completely different in practice.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by skysyk View Post
    We only got some vague promises and screens from Attila... same as we got for Rome 2, and we all know how that turned out ^^


    This.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    Attila will come out a year or two from now, and it'll be another year before it isn't a completely broken mess. So I think DEI has plenty of time to run before they need to think about switching things over.

    Attila "sounds" great the same way Rome 2 "sounded great" before release. I fully expect most of the new features they are promising will be cut before release or released in a totally slapdash way. TW has developed a poor reputation for itself that is unfortunately richly deserved at this point.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    I think the thing is that gaming is constantly moving on (not necessarily forward) and it's kind of impractical for modders to be expected to complete their projects before something new appears on the market.

    I'm pretty sure that Attila will have lots of features that the D et I modders would like to incorporate into their Rome II mod, but even if they were able to unite Attila with Rome II (which seems unlikely since CA are intent on separating the two titles) their work would inevitably end up being "usurped" by whatever Total War game is released after Attila.

    Ultimately, and somewhat paradoxically, CA's business model simultaneously both supplies and denies the modding community. On the one hand - and unlike many gaming franchises - TW offers modders a reasonable amount of support and tools, but on the other hand CA's insistence on releasing unnecessary stand-alone titles acts to undermine lots of the hard work done by the modding community.

    In my view, if Total War was owned by people who legitimately cared more about the gaming experience than about the revenue, then they would follow a Paradox style DLC policy. That would enable modders to work with as opposed to against new content. Games like Crusader Kings II will stand the test of the time because they are constantly supplemented by engaging yet non-required downloadable content which means that everyone wins in the end. Paradox get money from their DLC without having to code an entirely new game, the gamers themselves get an enhanced in game experiences if they choose to purchase the content, and the modders are able to incorporate any new additions into their own work if they so choose.

    In any event, we don't even know how good Attila will end up being. It is quite possible that it will be as trashy as vanilla Rome II is. That being said, I expect that some of the "new" stuff offered in the game will end up being a deal breaker for many of D et I's fans which is quite sad. Ideally we would want D et I + Atilla's features, but I don't see how that is going to happen because CA have made the decision to cut any practical ties between Rome II and their new game, despite the fact that the two titles will be carbon copies of one another at a core level.



  12. #12

    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    CA took a hard turn away from mod support a few titles ago. I never played Empire/Napolean so I don't know if it was there or in Shogun II but somewhere down there they shifted strongly away from a fully moddable game. It used to be you could mod anything in a CA game title, now in Rome 2 despite all their chatter about a modding summit, they refuse to release basic stuff like the tools to be able to mod the campaign map. It has to be a deliberate choice.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by yukishiro1 View Post
    CA took a hard turn away from mod support a few titles ago. I never played Empire/Napolean so I don't know if it was there or in Shogun II but somewhere down there they shifted strongly away from a fully moddable game. It used to be you could mod anything in a CA game title, now in Rome 2 despite all their chatter about a modding summit, they refuse to release basic stuff like the tools to be able to mod the campaign map. It has to be a deliberate choice.
    I always assumed they kept that in-house so that they could sell "expansions" which are really just new campaign maps. I would think that in fact a new map should be just about the easiest thing to mod, if they let you. This is why many strategy games come with "map editors" and whatnot.

    I can't help feeling that Atilla should be an expansion for Rome 2, just as Napoleon should have been for Empire >.<. I'd gladly pay full-game price for that kind of upgrade to the existing game's features. Instead, I expect that Attila's gameplay will be better in some ways, but the depth will seem lame in comparison: exactly how Napoleon is better except that it has a lame (small-scale) campaign. I wanted Napoleon's graphics and stuff, but with Empire's campaign - I expect the same problem with Attila. It's worth mentioning that none of this would be a problem with full map editing capabilities!! argh.

    But I digress. The point is, TWR2+DeI will pretty much never be obsolete. Look how many still love the Lord of the Rings mod for Medevial (or was it RTW, I forget)...

  14. #14

    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by yukishiro1 View Post
    Attila will come out a year or two from now,
    It will be released february 2015. It is known.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    Did you see the atilla siege battle? Londinium siege, i think it was
    The AI rushing with all troops towards your soldiers, despite having a large missile superiority (and onagers!).... ?
    They made walls decay with siege time to make sure the AI had an opening (because it is still too stupid to create one, i presume)
    Enemy cavalry general engages spear troops, depsite superiod axe numbers.... ?
    Movement and killing speeds?

    Atilla does have some nice touches, new map and campaign features most importantly. However, I am not so sure it will be superior to Rome2 in every way.
    I believe Rome 2 + DEI will be much more fun for at least a year after Atilla is released and some decent mods for atilla start popping up.

  16. #16
    Semisalis
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    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    I didnt pre order rome 2 to switch over to another tw game, in 5 years maybe. Since it has the best era, i have no urgent need to switch to attila, i was happy even with rome 2 in its release day!!! I played it since 3rd of september 2013, never felt scammed even with the knowledge that it was a bad release and a bad version back then.

  17. #17
    McCarronXLD's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    While I would love the DeI team to work on an overhaul mod for Attila (stats, unit variety, etc) I don't believe it should be a port of their Rome 2 mod. Let the two periods be separate. Yes it would have been nice to have some of those features in Rome 2, but Rome 2 can still be an amazing game after DeI is further along with it.

    Personally I'd love to see what DeI can do with Attila. I don't know anything really about that time period. All I do know is the units in the preview siege video looked very bland.
    "You hurt me long ago; my wounds bled for years. Now you are back, but I am not the same."

  18. #18
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    I dont know if porting the factions and units will be possible but if it is similar to Rome I and Barbarian invasion then Rome II could become nearly abandoned in favour of mods that replace the the factions in Attila with the ancient Era. If porting is quick and easy.

  19. #19
    Horatio Hornblower's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    My wish is that DeI team will improve Attila because I really can't stand the saxons dressed like a football team with those flashy green and yellow...

  20. #20

    Default Re: Attila rendering rome 2 obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower View Post
    My wish is that DeI team will improve Attila because I really can't stand the saxons dressed like a football team with those flashy green and yellow...
    lol I thought the same.

    Luckily D et I has some very talented skin guys



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