Financial Questions

**lalucre** · October 03, 2014, 12:52 PM

Hey everybody,

i just started playing TATW - great mod!

Looking at my finances I have a few questions.

What are wages? And what is "Corruption and other"? Together they are as high as my army upkeep.

Do spies, diplomats and watchtowers cost upkeep? I hope noe...

I have built plenty of towers on my borders - mainly because it looks nice. Should they have some upkeep, I might be in trouble, because as far as I now you can't destroy them.

thx for your help

lalucre

**Davek** · October 03, 2014, 01:52 PM

let's see:

Wages cost of paying your generals, spies, diplomats etc. I believe that wages of the spies you can find on their unit information cards, or that was in a other mod. Generals are quite expansive, something like 250 to 500 a turn. Perhaps somebody else knows the exact numbers.

Corruption and other: is there to limit your steam rolling, I am bit unsure about the precise workings, however it has to with things like distance to capital, traits of Governors etc. In some mods corruptions is especially bad to increase economic difficulty.

Watch towers do not require upkeep, I also don't think they can destroyed.

**Flinn** · October 03, 2014, 04:09 PM

let me add:

- Each general costs 250 gp of wages, plus another 250 for his full bodyguard upkeep. Pay attention not to recruit too much generals, or you can easily go bankrupt. In a regular TATW game you won't need more than 1 diplomat and 2/3 spies; do not recruit assassins, they are almost useless. And yes, watch towers do not have any wages.
- Corruption depends mainly on the distance of a settlement from the capital, the farther the higher. Some factions have little corruption in the early campaign, due to a small and concentrated kingdom, while others have a lot, due to a big (i.e. Gondor) or spread kingdom (i.e. High elves, Dwarves). The first solution is to have the capital in the center of your kingdom, with one exception: if you have a cluster of rich settlements, your capital should be close to it (i.e. with High Elves your capital should be Mithlond and not Imladris; with Mordor once you conquer Gondor richest settlement you should move your capital in East Osgiliath, etc). One important thing to notice: a settlement cannot have a corruption value higher than its income. This means that, if in order to put the capital in the center of your kingdom you have to move it far from your richest settlements, that will actually cause an increase of your total corruption value.
- Another way to lower corruption is to have generals with high law value ruling as governors in those richest settlements far from your capital. Be careful with corruption: moving your capital costs you 5000gp, but if you put it rightly you can easily save thousands per turn.

**lalucre** · October 03, 2014, 06:22 PM

Now that is interesting!

I am happy that my watch towers are free, and I do only operate, I think, 3-4 spies and 2 diplomats. However, in the last 20-30 rounds my High Elven aristocracy has multiplied, and generals have spawned left, right and center. Up to now I have seen them as free, automatically replenishing, heavy cavalry. Turns out they are not so free after all...

So what do you suggest? Kill a few of them off in battle? Or at least not accept further suggested marriage partners? On the other hand, a town makes more money, when a general sits in it, doesn't it? Is my math correct, when I say that if a general's presence in a town increases it's income by less than 500, he is not worth putting in there? (puplic order aside)

I have about 15 towns, each with one general, plus about 6-7 in the field. No wonder my wages are so high.

**Withwnar** · October 04, 2014, 12:30 AM

Forts provide free upkeep for generals as well as units. There aren't many around and they only have a few free upkeep slots (2? 3?) so it isn't a major solution but good to know.

You can kill some generals off and also be choosey about which ones you take on board (e.g. good traits).

Sometimes a governor can reduce income of his settlement to less than what it makes with no governor at all - it comes down to his traits and ancillaries. True: if the income bonus he's creating is less than his wages then his existence is (financially) pointless. But with time he might turn into a better governor, increasing his money making abilities. There are tutorials on how to make better governors.

I wouldn't be too paranoid about agents (spies, diplomats). Their upkeep is small compared to units. It all adds up though. An extra diplomat would cost 5000 (?) over 100 turns but that's a drop in the ocean compared to what you're spending on recruitment, construction and other upkeep over those turns.

**lalucre** · October 04, 2014, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Withwnar

Forts provide free upkeep for generals as well as units. There aren't many around and they only have a few free upkeep slots (2? 3?) so it isn't a major solution but good to know.

Do you mean the small forts that are (scarecely) scattered around the map? Or do you mean the proper (city) fortresses? City walls also do provide free upkeep, for a small amount of troops, I'v seen. Does this also count for Generals? Btw, I have also noticed, that no all unit types seem to get the free upkeep in cities. Does the unit have to be recruited in that very same city, or should any unit, from anywhere, get the free upkeep?

**Infidel144** · October 04, 2014, 08:17 AM

The small forts provide free upkeep for units (the number depends on the mod). Generals normally do not get free upkeep in settlements. Any unit as long as you can recruit that type of unit in the settlement for it to receive free upkeep.

**lalucre** · October 04, 2014, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Infidel144

...as long as you can recruit that type of unit in the settlement...

ah - thx for that in particular!

**lalucre** · October 04, 2014, 09:43 AM

A last question about generals. How old do they get in this mod? I am playing High Elves right now. I have read somewhere that they are not immortal ingame, but how old do they get on average?

**Stodul** · October 04, 2014, 10:38 AM

AFAIK 120 years is the highest age. After that, generals always die.

**Withwnar** · October 04, 2014, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by lalucre

Do you mean the small forts that are (scarecely) scattered around the map?

Yes. Unlike settlements they provide free upkeep for generals or, rather, their bodyguards.

**Davek** · October 05, 2014, 05:04 AM

Indeed the small forts provide free upkeep for 2 units, all unit are eligible for free upkeep, when having more then 2 units in a fort the units with highest upkeep receive the free upkeep.

Cities and castles can have more free upkeep slots depending on the buildings some may have around 5 free upkeep slots. However not all units are eligible, I believe that besides generals also elites units, siege and special units like trolls can not receive free upkeep in cities and castles.

Generals are rarely effective when used as governors to increase financial income. Only with the right traits, skills and a city with a huge income. However there are several other advantages to take in consideration. First high chivalry promotes population growth (which is great since pop increase is slow in TATW) secondly they provide law and order bonus, might allow you to raise taxes, keep town happy and need less garrison.

Finally the bodyguard of the general does replenish, which make that useful as heavy cavalry especially in early game. Or as part a of garrison, let the enemy break into the town, hold the town center with some cheap troops and swing your general trough the side gate into the rear of enemy forces.

So there a quite a bit uses for generals, but they don't come cheap therefor don't adopt all you can.