We Hungarians are Caucasian. Huns / Attila are Mongoloid and so were the original Turks

[Stavroforos]

Oh the irony of you saying that Stav.

I'm not sure you understand what that word means, since you're using it wrong. In any case, all Europeans are guilty of this craze over racial theories and genetics, it just seems that Hungarians and Romanians are the biggest offenders.

[Tureuki]

We are all fellow Slavs in the end.

[neoptolemos]

We are all fellow Slavs in the end.

Indeed even modern Turkish have a slavic admixture if you consider the population relocations in asia minor during byzantine times the Slavic converts

[Sir Adrian]

I'm not sure you understand what that word means, since you're using it wrong. In any case, all Europeans are guilty of this craze over racial theories and genetics, it just seems that Hungarians and Romanians are the biggest offenders.

I do Stav, I do.


Usually when you will see a Romanian talk about ancestors and stuff it will be as a reply to a Hungarian. They like to make up stuff to excuse political interests and we have the national flaw of being hyper defensive about history. Kinda like Greeks and Macedonians.

[athanaric]

Dude what are you talking about ? Its mostly Hungarians themselves claiming to be Huns, are you debating with yourself ?

Sort of, yeah. You should be glad though that he isn't falling for this "we Hungarians are Huns" tripe that's been around for centuries. The reality is that modern Hungarians are mostly descendants of locals (indigenous folk plus Slavs), with Iranian, Ugric, Turkic and Germanic elements mixed in. And probably Italic, from the Roman period. As long as he isn't claiming that the original, Ugric Hungarians from Siberia were Central European, I see no problem with this.

As to Huns, to my knowledge their exact genetic setup is still very murky. Based on what I've read (which isn't terribly much), they must've been mostly Turkic, but surely with a certain amount of mixed heritage.

The Hun story is the result of standard medieval thinking. If you keep hearing tales about fearsome horse people highly skilled with the bow who called themselves
Huns and you meat a group of fearsome horse people highly skilled with the bow logic dictates that you label them Huns. The Byzantines called all nomads they ecountered Scythians because they fought like Scythians. That includes the Mongoloid Avars, the turkic Pechenegs and the turks themselves.

And the Goths IIRC.

--

Oh yeah, and it's Caucasoid, not Caucasian. Chechens and Georgians are Caucasian, Hungarians most certainly aren't.

[Ciciro]

We are all fellow Slavs in the end.

Heck, even I'm a Slav, and I'm American.

[G-Megas-Doux]

I would not worry about haplogroups as being a proof of where the main population came from for several reasons. First is that it does not identify where the culture came from only who was more successful at propagation since the last regional population bottle neck. Second, if all the men go to war and most die but an outsider moves in whilst the women are away then the children will have a higher proportion of the next generation having a different haplogroup to the previous population. Since Hungary was invaded multiple times by many peoples you could as equally claim them to be Bulgars or Germans or even from the Janisary Turks who were abducted Christian children brought up to serve the Ottoman Sultan. Unless archaeological evidence can show contiguous quantative data graves from the sixth century onward in the region where the majority is the gene you are unlikely to show them as being Huns, even from here we could claim they were Goths or Lombards.

[Arto]

Wait a min... could someone explain me why Hungarians don't see Magyars as their ancestors?

[Aru]

Lmao, never thought that id see a thread where people are saying "GUys we are european too! Not like these ugly easterners! See! We are described as handsome and log nosed! Not ugly and squash faced!

You have started using internet only recently, right?

This mracism exists for last 150 years or so in this form where everyone in Europe is more white than people south and east of them. Thread about that must have been in first 100 threads that existed on internet. 92 were porn.

Wait a min... could someone explain me why Hungarians don't see Magyars as their ancestors?

I don't know if you are trolling, but Hungarians are the Magyars. They call themselves Magyars. They make no distinction between migrating Magyars or modern Magyars. Nor they should.

[geyserik]

My great grandfather was a full blooded mongol and my grandfather is Hungarian so the Huns are really Mongols I think?

[Arto]

You have started using internet only recently, right?

This mracism exists for last 150 years or so in this form where everyone in Europe is more white than people south and east of them. Thread about that must have been in first 100 threads that existed on internet. 92 were porn.



I don't know if you are trolling, but Hungarians are the Magyars. They call themselves Magyars. They make no distinction between migrating Magyars or modern Magyars. Nor they should.

I was definitely trolling, I just didn't make a distinction between modern and migrating Magyars. Kinda like the modern Greeks saying they're descendants from Hellenes people.

[Tureuki]

@Aru

The op does, he's talking about Magyars as Uralic invaders who assimilated hiğs Scythian ancestors and transformed their language to Uralic

[athanaric]

I don't know if you are trolling, but Hungarians are the Magyars. They call themselves Magyars. They make no distinction between migrating Magyars or modern Magyars. Nor they should.

Of course they should. Otherwise it's like saying that Americans were "pure" Anglo-Saxons.

[Aru]

Why, because they are no longer steppe nomads? All peoples have some basis from which their present culture derives. For Magyars it's the migration of Magyars to Pannonia. For English it's Angles and Saxon migration to Britain. It's like claiming one's surname doesn't belong to him because his great great grandfather spoke a different language and was of different nationality. Everything changes, so do the people who call themselves by certain name - nations.

Pureness doesn't matter, what matters is that 1000 years ago most people living in what is now Hungary were called Magyars and most people of what is now Hungary are called Magyars. Between now and 1000 years ago most people living in what is now Hungary were called Magyars. There is clearly continuity between Magyars of 1000 years ago and modern Magyars.

[athanaric]

Why, because they are no longer steppe nomads? All peoples have some basis from which their present culture derives. For Magyars it's the migration of Magyars to Pannonia. For English it's Angles and Saxon migration to Britain.

I said Americans, not English. Americans speak an Anglo-Saxon language, and their core culture is English, but, apart from other cultural influences, their genetics are all over the place and only a retard would claim that they're "pure Anglo-Saxon". With the Hungarians, it's a similar case. Even more extreme because there was a religious and cultural conversion involved.

Pureness doesn't matter, what matters is that 1000 years ago most people living in what is now Hungary were called Magyars and most people of what is now Hungary are called Magyars. Between now and 1000 years ago most people living in what is now Hungary were called Magyars. There is clearly continuity between Magyars of 1000 years ago and modern Magyars.

There is also a clear dis-continuity, largely thanks to Szent Istvan and his family. Without them, it's highly likely that the Magyars would've gone down as "just another horde of slave-raiding savages from the Asian steppes", and disappeared into obscurity after a few centuries at most, like the Avars and Huns. And even the Alans, outside of Ossetia.
There's every reason to make a distinction between the Magyar horde of 895 AD and the modern Hungarians of 2014 AD. They are not "the same people", anymore than the Greeks of today are the same as the Greeks of 480 BC, or the "Turks" of e.g. Istanbul are the same as the Seljuq horde. This doesn't mean they shouldn't practice Magyar language and traditions, it just means one should acknowledge existing differences.

[Garbarsardar]

So, after two moderators intervene in a thread, and somehow try to steer it towards a sort of a meaningful discussion, we have a page of covert and overt insults and a member casually stating "of course I'm trolling". The sheer number of infractions I could give over a single page fills me with a deep resentment towards humanity.

Closed and I remember each one of you. Thank you.