Total War Attila: A Proper Discussion Thread

[warman222]

I decided to make a new thread here in the symposium for the discussion of the next Total War game. I wanted to make a discussion of the news and info associated with it in a place where only Citizens can post to try and weed out some of more snide and inane ranters from TWA and Rome 2 forums. I'm not saying that people have to like Attila or Rome 2, but the way a large percentage of haters act is simply annoying and unreasonable. It's because the "cool" thing on the internet to bash a video game series for dare having a misstep but I've never agreed with that. I truthfully believe that CA is genuinely trying to give fans what they want to see while balancing what Sega wants them to do. There's that part of me that wants CA to ignore what haters demand just to piss off the trolls, A lot of people wanted a Medieval 3 despite CA saying that's not happening for a while. So basically a lot people got burned by the announcement because they weren't paying attention.

But back to the manner at hand, what do I think of TWA. I'm actually really curious to see how it goes. I'm personally not a big fan of the Fall of Rome era but I'm not out of the mindset of playing it like an Asian themed Total War game or something post Reneciasse. I'm actually more curious on this game for the lifespan of my Medieval Kingdoms mod. Based off my research of how Empire and Napoleon went about, I should be able to port over my assets without too many problems. I made a whole thread on the manner in my MK sub forum so go there for more details. This might be the first sequel expansion pack. Medieval 2 Kingdoms was different from Viking Invasion, Shogun 2's expansions were different Shogun 1. But this is more conventional which I think is welcome. I really hope people try to have an open mind on this one or at least be cautiously optimistic....

yeah, right....

[Aikanár]

Great idea! Thank-you for that thread

But back to the manner at hand, what do I think of TWA. I'm actually really curious to see how it goes. I'm personally not a big fan of the Fall of Rome era but I'm not out of the mindset of playing it like an Asian themed Total War game or something post Reneciasse. I'm actually more curious on this game for the lifespan of my Medieval Kingdoms mod. Based off my research of how Empire and Napoleon went about, I should be able to port over my assets without too many problems. I made a whole thread on the manner in my MK sub forum so go there for more details. This might be the first sequel expansion pack. Medieval 2 Kingdoms was different from Viking Invasion, Shogun 2's expansions were different Shogun 1. But this is more conventional which I think is welcome. I really hope people try to have an open mind on this one or at least be cautiously optimistic....

Since I literally missed all of TW:R2, the pre-release hype of TW:R2 and what happened after release and the game itself until today, I'm actually pretty interested in TW:A! I'm not too fond of the setting either, but I am really interested in the engine and a game with that map and I just don't feel like buying TW:R2 and I doubt I will soon.

It's actually quite the opposite as it was for me with E:TW and N:TW, I was hyped for the former and missed the latter for a long, long, very long time. Now I enjoy both.

Back to TW:A, yes, I'm looking forward to it, I just like the European setting and since I've never been disappointed with the modding scene, I think that with the expanded features, it will be huge! It is actually the first TW title since M2K that makes me play with the thought of getting back into modding TW games. In addition, I wanted to buy a new playing rig anyways next year, so that will correlate and might result in an even better playing experience.

As for the press release, I really like the dark touch of it. I like the in-game footage screens, even though they certainly are polished or at least probably may be polished

Also, again with regards to the ascribed features, I love the possibilities the scorched earth feature may open. I mean, imagine a mod set in the early viking age with this feature: Lindisfarena? There is no such settlement no more, because we pillaged and leveled it to the ground

[DekuTrash]

I'm looking forward to it! Look like CA has learned or at least is learning from the rocky road that has been Rome 2. I do have a feeling that people will start modding the hell out of Attila to bring it to a Rome 2 time frame which would be welcome in my opinion.

[warman222]

Yeah, what would stop someone from taking the assets of DeI(for example) and just porting them over since like I said my MK thread, I'll be shocked if it was in the same format as Rome 2. It shouldn't be all that difficult. I'm actually getting more excited for this game the more I see the potential in it from a modding perspective.

[Sir Adrian]

From what I've seen they've more or less addressed every complaint about Rome II, looking forward to it. Only thing I'm iffy about are Atilla's forces.

[Aikanár]

Character Records
Actually not just character records, records on everything. A proper stats system for almost everything in your empire. Enough so that you could export a file, insert it in some application, and follow the progress of your empire across turns. I had a long talk with Janos on that, and now have some emails going as well.

That, besides the other gameplay features, is actually really huge with regards to game immersion! Sounds familiar from some paradox titles, which wouldn't be a bad idea to introduce some of their statistic and logging features in a unique TW style.

My idea is to build something for TWC that allows you to upload this in xml format and display it on your profile so that players can follow your progress and learn a few things from each other. I have no idea if we can actually make this happen, but it is possible and I will do everything I can to make it happen. I mentioned it to Squid 2 weeks ago and if we can figure it out and get ahold of some actual files we can probably build something for the site like this. I am not promising that this will happen, but that is the current goal.

This idea is just mind blowing in the best possible meaning of that term! That could really open up a new world with regards to TWC user immersion. Who cares for stinking Steam achievements which say basically nothing, when you can have something like a TWC TW league with rp-ish elements for the players/users.

[Bethencourt]

Not sure every complaint. What about the naval campaign and the naval battles? For example, will the Huns embark just when arriving to the shore? Or will they need to have a port and then build some ships if they have the technollogy or hire mercenary fleets?

[GrnEyedDvl]

That, besides the other gameplay features, is actually really huge with regards to game immersion! Sounds familiar from some paradox titles, which wouldn't be a bad idea to introduce some of their statistic and logging features in a unique TW style.

Its tracking LOTS of stuff, and is still changing every day. I am actually trying to get kept in the loop on the development of this so I can coordinate some stuff.

This idea is just mind blowing in the best possible meaning of that term! That could really open up a new world with regards to TWC user immersion. Who cares for stinking Steam achievements which say basically nothing, when you can have something like a TWC TW league with rp-ish elements for the players/users.

When they first said something about it being stored every turn end in a file, I jumped all over that and interrupted the entire preview to suggest we import that on websites. Janos (who was sitting in the back letting others do the presentation) immediately stepped forward and said he liked the idea. The idea is still very brand new, and I am impressed that they mentioned it as a possibility at the convention the other day, barely 2 weeks after we first started talking about it. I have no idea yet if we will be able to pull it off, but you can bet I am trying to make it happen and offered up anything TWC can do to help make it happen. Including the services of Squid (offered him before I even told him about it, how's that for messed up?!?) and myself on the website side of things, so we can go live with it on TWC the day of launch.

What I really want, is a system that stores that file in a database someplace every time you click Turn End, and then we can pull from that database on the site and stick the information in your user profile. Then people could click through your campaign one turn at a time and see your campaign progress over time, how you setup and managed your empire, every little detail that is stored. If we can generate a simple map with colors for factions and also display that it would be freakin awesome.

If we cant make all that work we could still build something that allows you to upload a file, and then people can browse it from there. The only real problem with doing it that way is that people will "cheat" by manually editing the file by hand.

[Bethencourt]

Also, again with regards to the ascribed features, I love the possibilities the scorched earth feature may open. I mean, imagine a mod set in the early viking age with this feature: Lindisfarena? There is no such settlement no more, because we pillaged and leveled it to the ground

I think they have said it is for defenders, some kind of Russian 1812 strategy. I know Romans abandoned Britain, but they did not use this strategy there, they just left the population to defend themselves.

Some people have said that Helvetii used this strategy, but they did not use it really. They scorched their land to force the reluctant part of the tribe to move and invade part of the Gaul. So it was an offensive movement when they used it.

I wonder if and how the AI uses it and if we will be able to build a new settlement there.

[Aikanár]

Its tracking LOTS of stuff, and is still changing every day. I am actually trying to get kept in the loop on the development of this so I can coordinate some stuff.

When they first said something about it being stored every turn end in a file, I jumped all over that and interrupted the entire preview to suggest we import that on websites. Janos (who was sitting in the back letting others do the presentation) immediately stepped forward and said he liked the idea. The idea is still very brand new, and I am impressed that they mentioned it as a possibility at the convention the other day, barely 2 weeks after we first started talking about it. I have no idea yet if we will be able to pull it off, but you can bet I am trying to make it happen and offered up anything TWC can do to help make it happen. Including the services of Squid (offered him before I even told him about it, how's that for messed up?!?) and myself on the website side of things, so we can go live with it on TWC the day of launch.

What I really want, is a system that stores that file in a database someplace every time you click Turn End, and then we can pull from that database on the site and stick the information in your user profile. Then people could click through your campaign one turn at a time and see your campaign progress over time, how you setup and managed your empire, every little detail that is stored. If we can generate a simple map with colors for factions and also display that it would be freakin awesome.

If we cant make all that work we could still build something that allows you to upload a file, and then people can browse it from there. The only real problem with doing it that way is that people will "cheat" by manually editing the file by hand.

This is so huge, I can't believe I get so hyped about it but seriously, this has just incredible potential! Great move of you to interrupt and tying to be kept in touch with the development.

For the game itself, it's basically that kind of immersion that we tried to achieve with traits and ancillaries right from the start, to create immersion and to display the history of the campaign with regards to character development; but this could be so much more, the entire development of a campaign in an abstract form for user consumption just usually sucks you into the game right from the start (as several franchises have proven already and if you're that kind of player obviously).

For TWC I think that's even more important - I guess that's why you immediately jumped the gun -, because if this feature is successful (no doubt about it) this is surely not to be abandoned for future titles and its effect on TWC, when combined with some sort of online tool as you describe is just: wow! Reminds me to the early days of Diplomacy, before it was a pc-game, when we used to play turn by turn and send it to the pages admin in order for him to put all the turns together and create a map for each completed turn. Huge!

Sorry for being so excited about it, but it's just incredible, because it won't stop with just simply recreating the campaign in abstract. People tend to like to compete, gamers even more so, that could just be like a multiplier to that feature. Then there is what it can do for AARs and the Writers Study, but that's just a minor bonus (not meant in a pejorative way) for a lack of a better word. There is so much potential in this feature, if we (you and Squid) can implement it to TWC in a feasible fashion that... eh, well, it's like a 20 year TWC-life insurance so to speak.

I need to stop here before I start to slobber.

[Captain Blackadder]

The idea of playing back the campaign is a great one. I would really like to see how my faction and others expand in size throughout the campaign.

[Sebidee]

I really enjoted this video yesterday on the new campaign features. Looks really good so far!



This one is great too!

[warman222]

I think what is going to make or break this game in the grand scheme of things is what they add in terms of new content. People think that this is just going to be a glorified DLC or patch. CA/SEGA has to show that this game can hold it's own and that it deserves to be a stand alone game. I think it can, they've said a good amount already and we've only just begun. I'm curious to see other factions and an expansion of the other features I know are there like religion that they haven't mentioned yet and whatever other tricks they have up their sleeve. What I find funny is people are willing to buy this game if I port my mod to it. I find myself in a very weird place. I'm really hoping that the format of the assets is the same like how Empire and Napoleon worked or Shogun 2 and FOTS. I also just found an interview that I think answers a good amount of the more pressing questions, here's a link and I'll quote the breakdown post:

http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...ons-answered!0

short summary, def worth a listen
-stand alone product, anything they can integrate into rome 2 they will try, tone of voice lead me to believe much is not going to happen, but they did push continuing support for rome 2
-lower price point than rome 2, tone of voice leads me to believe 29.99 round abouts
-new voice acting/music for entire game
-playable factions comparable to Rome II in number, no specifics (did not confirm Huns playable or not)
-Razing a city leaves nothing but wilderness, to rebuild city costs half your army and a "sizable sum of money" larger the army the cheaper the currency cost, if rebuilt you start fresh, one structure slot
-civilians are immersion factor only, do not expect a fighting force, more along the lines of plebs in strength
-Attila diplomacy similar to Rome II, not very many specifics mentioned
- new agent(s) really priest is new, others are same different name/look, but agents have actual actions now more along the lines of shogun agents with new skill trees
-map is bigger extends to the steppes of asia
-campaign is 75 years, 4 turns a year, starts before Attila birth then you watch his rise to power
-Huns are not scripted, but will not get destroyed early like many powerful factions in Rome II, they are a force to reckon with
-multiplayer similar to Rome II, no shogun style avatar
-Disease=attrition/negative stats to armies, spreads by contact, no graphical representation in combat
-armies still become transports that don't stand a chance against a real navy
-navy combat is more along the lines of fire hails of arrows and boarding action, less ramming
-AI some factions are going to be aggressive/passive
-Fire spreads via ground trees barricades, has large effect on moral, raiding units start fire, if you want to take a city wouldn't recommend allowing raiding units in city
-Siege weapons, very important, without them siege take much long by starving them out
-highlighted strong narrative in an interesting era leading to the medieval ages

[Sebidee]

I think what is going to make or break this game in the grand scheme of things is what they add in terms of new content. People think that this is just going to be a glorified DLC or patch. CA/SEGA has to show that this game can hold it's own and that it deserves to be a stand alone game. I think it can, they've said a good amount already and we've only just begun. I'm curious to see other factions and an expansion of the other features I know are there like religion that they haven't mentioned yet and whatever other tricks they have up their sleeve. What I find funny is people are willing to buy this game if I port my mod to it. I find myself in a very weird place. I'm really hoping that the format of the assets is the same like how Empire and Napoleon worked or Shogun 2 and FOTS. I also just found an interview that I think answers a good amount of the more pressing questions, here's a link and I'll quote the breakdown post:

http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...ons-answered!0

[/COLOR]

Check out this video, it hints at the kind of narative that the game can have. The Huns will come near the end of the game and be part of the 'apocalypse' there will also be 7 events throughout the game (like famine, war, pestilence etc) that will furthur challenge you. I have a feeling that this game ill not be about creating an Empire but instead surviving until the campaign ends. Sounds REALLY good.

[LestaT]

When they first said something about it being stored every turn end in a file, I jumped all over that and interrupted the entire preview to suggest we import that on websites. Janos (who was sitting in the back letting others do the presentation) immediately stepped forward and said he liked the idea. The idea is still very brand new, and I am impressed that they mentioned it as a possibility at the convention the other day, barely 2 weeks after we first started talking about it. I have no idea yet if we will be able to pull it off, but you can bet I am trying to make it happen and offered up anything TWC can do to help make it happen. Including the services of Squid (offered him before I even told him about it, how's that for messed up?!?) and myself on the website side of things, so we can go live with it on TWC the day of launch.

What I really want, is a system that stores that file in a database someplace every time you click Turn End, and then we can pull from that database on the site and stick the information in your user profile. Then people could click through your campaign one turn at a time and see your campaign progress over time, how you setup and managed your empire, every little detail that is stored. If we can generate a simple map with colors for factions and also display that it would be freakin awesome.

If we cant make all that work we could still build something that allows you to upload a file, and then people can browse it from there. The only real problem with doing it that way is that people will "cheat" by manually editing the file by hand.

You can check with existing game (Rome 2) startpos and see if anything can be use because there's 2 types of info there which the pre starting startpos (like the old descr_strat in the old games) and also the the post start startpos where it stores all details after you end the turns. It basically stores every information on the campaign map, armies and all after you play the game. This stuff basically do not exist in the old games so I assume (forgive me if I'm wrong) you don't know about this new stuff since I don't remember seeing you mod any warscape games.

The startpos can be read with pfm and editsf which maybe can be converted in xml or whatever format that the forum need ? I don't know much the technical term but I guess other warscape modders can help to explain if this will be of any help.

p/s: I'm in the office and not my gaming pc so I can't show where where it's located but if anyone who knows what I'm talking about then maybe can post it so that GED and Squid can see.

[Makrell]

i am looking forward to it. have enjoyed rome II since launch and it is currwntly nr2 in hours played in my steam library. I wont preorder though, then the bonus has to be great.

Those playback features sound good.

[.Mitch.]

If we cant make all that work we could still build something that allows you to upload a file, and then people can browse it from there. The only real problem with doing it that way is that people will "cheat" by manually editing the file by hand.

Not to jump in and derail the thread, but I actually laid ground works for this as a mod in Rome 2. It was a script that at the end of every turn wrote to a file associated with that savegame what the player and AI had done, units recruited, buildings constructed, technology researched, army movements, battles, region changes, etc, literally everything of note.

However I abandoned the project when I realized the only way this would all be viewable to others would be through a desktop tool and thus it's popularity would be somewhat limited, I didn't fancy making a website and hosting it, nor do I feel I have the time to learn enough about web coding to make it work.

[Garbarsardar]

I am hesitant to think anything about A : TW. This is partially due to my limited technical awareness (to put it mildly) and to what was a demonstrably naive type of thinking before the R2 release. My opinion back then was RTW+patches+years of mods+years+budget=R2 would be imminently enjoyable. It turned out not to be the case. In a similar vein I could go down the road of R2+patches and expansions+criticism= A:TW will be imminently enjoyable. And I could even use the MTW2-Kingdoms transition as an indication that CA with a bit of effort can get things exactly right. I can even add to that their patching response to R2 and the announcement of A:TW features that contains an implied acknowledgment of the truth in some of the criticism CA received. But I have been wrong before and it did cost me some disappointment.

[warman222]

To clarify I have never stated that you had to like Rome 2 or the ATW anouncement. There is nothing wrong with your opinion if you feel that way, but the way people hate it is uncalled for and the way people who like the game are given the fan boy label is . At the very least the fact that CA is willing to try and "fix" what people hated has to count for something. I put fix in quotes because a lot of the issues I never agreed with so there you go.

[Aikanár]

To clarify I have never stated that you had to like Rome 2 or the ATW anouncement. There is nothing wrong with your opinion if you feel that way, but the way people hate it is uncalled for and the way people who like the game are given the fan boy label is . At the very least the fact that CA is willing to try and "fix" what people hated has to count for something. I put fix in quotes because a lot of the issues I never agreed with so there you go.

To like something or to hate something are both feelings. One can hardly reason when it comes to feelings. I wouldn't go as far as to put one feeling over the other. From a neutral perspective, I'd like to see people address the content of the post and all comments attributing adjectives and adverbs to the poster gone alike, regardless of the feeling they originated from. But that's a topic for another discussion.