[Official Submods] Combat Related Submods (updated for 1.2.6)

[Atomic Punk]

Thanks ildar, your advice allowed me to download AAA: Greeks from Benjin's Workshop

[_Sammael_]

Hey guys. Can anyone tell me if there is, or if KAM made some battle submod which keeps battle pace slow as vanilla DEI without submods while not making range units absolutelly useless? Or is it even possible to make battles slow whilst making range units behave as in vanilla game? I mean, I heard all of ''general buffs'' of ''shoot them in the backs'' but when I see my most elite archers start picking their first kills at non armored target after the 3rd or 4th valley.....

[KAM 2150]

Ranged units are very brutal even now, making them stronger would be close to cheating as they would be only viable options to use. Some people have 12 basic slingers in their armies. You can't have slow battles and ranged troops moving down 5-10 guys with first volley.

[_Sammael_]

Yeah, 12 slingers. The AI is dumb enough without me cheesing it even more with OP builds like 12 slingers or militia spam to autoresolve like there is no tomorrow. And I'm pretty sure that most of the people using DEI is doing it because they want a bit of the immersion and a bit of more realism compared to vanilla (except few individuals who are playing on legendary and doing above mentioned to prove themselves something, while not having any fun at all doing it...like LegendofTotalWar did while complaining all the time #facepalm), so for me is 2-3cav and 2-3ranged max, considering small scale armies CA provided. So I was curious if there is any submod with armor minus multiplier for ranged units, even if they would have less ammo but used smart or tactically, because even how much better you made those battles....watching my slingers or archers throw 450 projectiles into the blob of units and barely pick 2-3kills because they didn't wear out their armor enough yet, breaks the immersion for me immediately. So question is for as above:
1. is it possible to make ranged units do clean dmg or have some minus multiplier for the armor so armored legionaries are more resistant to the missile than naked warriors while not being immune to it, while keeping melee fight prolonged as it is? Even with lower ammo or accuracy based on the experience of the unit.
2. did you consider raising the range, if you do not want/can't to make them more lethal? So they do at least some damage on the initial skirmish befor the armies clash together.
BTW, thx for the answer

[KAM 2150]

AI ignores max unit range and also ranged damage is drastically lower the longer range it.

I most of the time finish battles with 100+ kills for low tier ranged units when facing balanced army. For late game armies, your ranged units will do a lot more especially that you will also have higher tier ranged troops.

What you would like would only shift balance more in favour of purely ranged based armies without any downfalls of it.

Ranged units are better than they historically were at the moment anyway and FAR FAR from useless, rather the other way around.

[nikossaiz]

Hello KAM. I am always very impatient to try every new updates you made. 1) the ranged units are indeed way more powerfull than they historically were, especially the slingers. I like them when i have them as opponents, as i have a major concern on the battlefiled but i can understand that a human player can perform them like they have machine guns. Is there a way to tide the sling shots with moral? so that every hit will reduse the moral of the hitten unit and not be so lethal? just wonder, propably is not possible.
2) i encounter some wierd path finding issues after the last patch. Is it me or a mulfaction of the engine or something with the newest tweeks? I see that hoplites and phallanxes have something like more "flow" on their formation.
3) thank you for your hard work once again

[H-Khan]

I think the most overpower for missile units comes from the god eye view. If I'd have to use sparabara army from 1st person it would be a disaster likely. Tho they still have the firepower to punch through 1st rank with ease

[TheJackinati275]

Hello KAM. I am always very impatient to try every new updates you made. 1) the ranged units are indeed way more powerfull than they historically were, especially the slingers. I like them when i have them as opponents, as i have a major concern on the battlefiled but i can understand that a human player can perform them like they have machine guns. Is there a way to tide the sling shots with moral? so that every hit will reduse the moral of the hitten unit and not be so lethal? just wonder, propably is not possible.
2) i encounter some wierd path finding issues after the last patch. Is it me or a mulfaction of the engine or something with the newest tweeks? I see that hoplites and phallanxes have something like more "flow" on their formation.
3) thank you for your hard work once again

Having slings with more moral impact would certainly be a feasible idea, though it should only affect 'Sling 3' projectiles in the proj_tables list In my honest opinion.

Leaden biconnicals sound like wasps from hell (Clay ones go whop-whop-whop-whop rather than vrmmmmmm like lead), and they are not the silent harbingers of death like spherical projectiles, and I really wish you could change Projectile sounds to reflect this for Balearic/Rhodian slingers.

I know this, because I sling myself and I use leaden glandes. I'd say that roughly Three out of every four projectiles goes 'Vrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmm' and I have already exceeded Divide Et Impera's maximum range of the Balearic and Rhodian slingers. 200 metres for them... about ~200-260 metres for me!

So If you need a slinger. Recruit me lol.

Edit: Also, concerning lethality of slingers, that depends entirely on the sling projectiles and on the slinger. Leaden glandes could mass anywhere from 20 grams to over 100 grams and I'd imagine that achieving throws of about 60-70 m/s would be achievable by skilled slingers. On the otherhand, Balearic slingers, as far as can be inferred by sources of the period, tended to use heavier rocks rather than glandes, and so they would have a different performance. Luis Pons Livermore for example has been chronographed throwing a 200 gram projectile at 52 m/s for the history channel show "History of Weapons" episode 5. From this, I can infer that you would probably see a similar range as Xenophon sites in the Anabasis concerning fist-sized stones, about ~200 metres or maybe a little further but not much more. Novice slingspeeds are more around the 30-40m/s margin, but can reach to around 50 m/s with a long sling. Just by seeing this difference, you can really see why you want to use expert slingers in your army, with expert slingers you might expect to have nearly double the initial release velocities of novices if both were using similar massed projectiles and with slings of a similar length.

If it were up to me, I would opt for having heavy projectile options for slingers and a lead glande option... much alike having the old heavy arrow option of Vanilla rome 2... because there is a lot of variability.

In my own personal mod, I have given Sling 1 projectiles the same range (165), but have changed the velocity from 55 to 40, to better reflect novice-level sling speeds. Sling 2 I changed the range to 200 and have changed the velocity from 55 to 50, to better reflect the speeds produced by Luis Pons Livermore throwing fist-sized rocks. For Sling 3, I changed the velocity from 55 to 65, to better approximate for lead release velocities and upped the range from 200 to 300 metres. As a result, highly skilled slingers actually need to be micromanaged more as they now have very acute angle of release and need a good vantage point to be used to the best, which makes their usage much more interesting than in DEI.

[KAM 2150]

Slings like all ranged weapons already have a morale debuff when they hit but through actually working effect in kv_morale.

Adding a debuff skill to sling projectile is very, very bad, as with all projectiles since effect is applied to entire unit even if single stone hits them. This is also applied to your own units if single stray stone hits someone. Now with AI tendency to target units in melee, it would mean AI would criple own units while doing it.

Luckily, kv_morale has better effect for it so you have variables for being under fire by small arms, by artillery and by friendly fire.

With range and speed of weapons, they cant be sadly based on real life values as this also impacts AI and accuracy.

[daimyo21]

Hi Kam, just wanted to let you know in the original post the "Here is the offical submod for Faster Unit Movement:" I'm assuming needs to be this instead of what you have:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=374270687

[KAM 2150]

Fixed, thanks!

[armen]

Is there a mod which makes cavalry charges more impactful? Light cavalry is fine, but when I have heavy cav especially cataphracts doing 6-7 charges in the back of engaged units to no effects, it makes playing factions such as Parthia and Armenia difficult.

If there isnt a mod that makes cav charges more impactful, how do I go about moding that in?

[KAM 2150]

If you need 6-7 cataphract charges, you have a mod conflict or you are doing some veeery wrong.

Legionaries wont even stand that many frontal charges, not to mention rear charges.

[armen]

If you need 6-7 cataphract charges, you have a mod conflict or you are doing some veeery wrong.

Legionaries wont even stand that many frontal charges, not to mention rear charges.

hm. Maybe a mod conflict. I have two diplomacy mods installed maybe they are causing a conflict? Also tell me how to charge correctly maybe im doing it wrong

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

hm. Maybe a mod conflict. I have two diplomacy mods installed maybe they are causing a conflict? Also tell me how to charge correctly maybe im doing it wrong

For starters, the 2 diplomacy mods should be incompatible with each other the least.

[armen]

For starters, the 2 diplomacy mods should be incompatible with each other the least.

I took them out. I have the dynamics combat mod installed,and did a rear charge with a cataphract unit into the backs of Hastati got around 20 kills on the charge. Seems a little too low especialy with the dynamics combat mod installed.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

All latest doubles were merged,fixed font,general cleanup etc

[BotoxGod]

Hey KAM, hate to ask but I love and used this submod a lot. Is there a way you could update DEI - Slower Battles?
On the workshop, you stated that there was a technical problems with Steam. If, so are you able to upload it manually?

Apologies, if this request is unreasonable.
Kind regards, you've helped me greatly out a few years ago as well.

[KAM 2150]

I will upload it manually here later today

[BotoxGod]

I will upload it manually here later today

Many thanks, KAM.