[Feedback, Discussion & Bugs] Rome 2 Total Realism

[jutajata]

When i fight germanic tribes with sparta my hoplites start to flee after less than 1 minute of combat, much sooner than against any other nation, is this a known issue or it is suposed to be like that? Because on the way it is now it is impossible to win without having at least 3 to 1 against them, and this does not makes sense because the hoplitae was a good and organized fighting unit in ancient times.

[JaM]

do germans have berserkers in the army? those have scary all ability.. which reduces morale a lot.. i might tone it down a bit to make them less overpowered.

[Mausolos of Caria]

But Spartans should fear no one

[JaM]

0 exp units are rookies... no matter if they are Spartans or Romans or whoever... such soldiers will get scared of big ugly and smelly german berserkers

but take few exp3-4 units against them, and they will wipe their a**es with their bear pelts..


but of course, bug report is valid, elite units will get more experience in next version, especially units like Heroes of Sparta and alike... these will be composed of veterans now.

[jutajata]

The rank was the same between my units and them, everyone were rookie, my units are consisted of periokoi peltastai, periokoi hoplitae, archers and hippeis while theirs are Longobaroz, Gaisofulkho, Dugunda, Fulkho Frijo, Mercenary Wolf Warriors, Jugunda, Scout Riders and Longbow.

I don't know if any of them is a berserker, but after your post I played again and noticed that the units are frightened by the enemy and quickly go to Shaken and Wavering, by quickly I mean 20 seconds of combat, but I think this should be tone down since all of them were rookies, would make more sense if the germanic army were consisted of seasoned or elite.

EDIT: after seeing that there is a feedback thread I realise that this is not a bug but just a balancing issue. Sorry for using the wrong thread =P

[LestaT]

But Spartans should fear no one

Only in Hollywood.

[Mausolos of Caria]

Spartans went through their very own agoge though so they had already experienced a lot before beginning their official military career, unlike most other people. But okay, you only had Perioikoi, that explains it then

[skysyk]

Spartans went through their very own agoge though so they had already experienced a lot before beginning their official military career, unlike most other people. But okay, you only had Perioikoi, that explains it then

But the old days of the agoge have nothing to do with the Sparta of the 272bc timeframe... so your argument is not valid

[JaM]

in next version several elite units will start with some experience.. Elite units like Royal Guards, Spartan Heroes and similar, will have 3-4 exp points when recruited. Spartan native troops will even get 1exp point to simulate their training advantage. Similar case will be for Silver Shield units (1exp at recruitment). Yet, all such elite units (Guards, Companions, Heroes..) will be limited in numbers and quite costly.

[Mausolos of Caria]

But the old days of the agoge have nothing to do with the Sparta of the 272bc timeframe... so your argument is not valid

But the agoge was still in place

[La Tene]

Loading in to an Athenian campaign I am at level two for both my port and my civil building. I can choose to build a trading port for 8000 or an Inn for 6000. The port will produce a LOT of wealth, 3 food, and no negatives. Building the Inn will produce little wealth, 3 food and some other effects but also negative public order. Simply put, the trading port is such a powerful option that the alternative options should be ignored. This imbalance could be fixed by reducing food output from the Harbour/Trade Port or by improving the Lodge/Inn chain.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2iq7nj3oeg...t-inn.jpg?dl=0

[Phalangitis]

Ports and land buildings are not comperable things.You cannot exist with only ports and you can only build one and in a coastal city.Sooner or later you are going to need to build a land building even if you choose to build the port now..

[La Tene]

Given that the trading port produces 1. a lot of money 2. a strong food income .. the gamer can go very far having constructed the port. Sure, eventually the user will be compelled to build lesser buildings, but the game play dynamic this imbalance produces is, in my opinion, quite unfortunate because the user will be compelled to move in one direction limiting campaign diversity and complexity. If the Inn were to become a less expensive build option, however, it would become a realistic one. But the harbour/trading port chain certainly needs to lose some food output to bring some balance to the port chain as a whole.

[JaM]

But you cannot build Inn instead of port. Port has a separate slot, that cannot be used by other buildings (inland cities can have max 5 slots for province capital, or 6 if it is coastal capital. Small cities can have 3 or 4 slots based on same criteria).. So you practically can have a port + Inn, or port + something else, but you cannot ignore port in coastal settlement. It will always be there. And food bonus from ports, is there to simulate grain trade, which was one of the most common source how to get food supply if you don't have a local one. Rome for example imported a lot of grain from Egypt.

[La Tene]

Yes the port is distinct. But when the user chooses a build option he or she should choose to build the trading port above all others because it is a much better investment.

[JaM]

Trading ports will not give you option to build stronger ships. Those only comes from military ports and wharfs. You can only get Triremes from Trade ports, and you can only get Quinqueremes from military ports. And believe me, at this point, Quinquereme is superior ship to Trireme in all aspects. It has twice as big crew, carries combat towers with archers, has much higher deck, so crew can throw javelins down more effectively, while from lower ships javelins are not as effective and will hit hull instead of men.. It can ram quite effectively, while it can resist ramming quite well due to much stronger hull. Quinquereme is worth every penny in naval battle..

so practically, it is a decision, if you want to have stronger economy, or navy. most of the time you are fine with trade ports, but you will need some military ports as well if you want to be able to control seas.

[Demokritos]

Hey JaM,

just discovered this little issue in the file you sent me the other day...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Other than that, so far very good!

[JaM]

oh, right, i gave them javelins, but they dont have them in variantmeshes.. i will correct it, thanks.

[Demokritos]

oh, right, i gave them javelins, but they dont have them in variantmeshes.. i will correct it, thanks.

Good. If I remember correctly in vanilla, the Merc Persian Cavalry had a similar issue (once), but you (or CA) may have already corrected that.

BTW, I've discovered that you're using the entries of "Sardes" and "Greek Cities" for two other factions, named "Koinon ton Thessalion" and "Sinope", respectively. Do you have many faction rearrangements ("displacements") like that? If I got a list of them, I might consider making a more tailored version of ACR for future versions of R2TR (as I'd have "Koinon ton Thessalion" look different from "Sardes" etc).

[JaM]

We also have Brutii and Campanii in game using prologue factions.