Dragonball Z topic.

[Inhuman One]

I gues there's some truth to that yes, hard to offer someone mercy when you are at their mercy.

Still a shame no more was done with Raditz though. In a way I still think it may have been more logical if he was the one to turn good instead of Vegeta. Or at least he could have shown up in otherworld sometimes, maybe to make peace with Goku and grow to respect his strenght.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Yeah I see what you're saying. I don't feel like Akira Toriyama really thought about where his story was going. More likely he was just really focused on getting out as much as possible and that's how we got the Cell Saga and the Buu Saga.

My major problem had to be with the whole Vegeta vs Goku thing. Watching the original fight both of them seem pretty even and then by the Cell Saga (or the Frieza Saga) Goku clearly surpasses him. But by the Buu Saga why in the hell does Goku surpass Vegeta? It's only the really cheap decision that Goku could turn in SS3 because he was dead that made this even possible. Realistically speaking they would both be the same if not that Vegeta was much stronger from Babidi's power boost. It was even stated in the show during the fight with Dabura that Vegeta is even stronger than Gohan by this point. Really I think the decision to make Goku the strongest fighter is for the reason you said.

Regarding the dubs, I grew up with the Spanish dub and when I moved to Canada I saw the English dub on television. Although I got to see the second guys like Sabat and the rest so for me hearing the first dub is a little bit weird.

[Inhuman One]

Well basicly it seems that if Goku beats someone, they are forced to forever live in his shadow from then on and never surpass him again.

Tien, Piccolo and Vegeta where all more powerfull than Goku when he first encountered them. Only Gohan gets to surpass goku one time, but then toriyama chickened out of it and made Goku the hero again.

I mean.. would it really have been bad for the story if Vegeta at some point would clearly be stronger than Goku? And I dont mean just because he went into the time chamber first. There he was stronger. It could actually have been a beautifull growth moment if Vegeta gets stronger than Goku and beats him in a fight, having him at his mercy only to realise that his blind desire to surpass goku was a foolish one, and from then on a friendly rivalry could form. Being saiyans, it wouldnt be fun to be the most powerfull and not have descent opposition after all.

Got to agree about Goku seemingly pulling that silly SS3 transformation out of his butt all of the sudden. It seems to be yet another of those moments where goku somehow getting special treatment again, only this time off screen in otherworld.
The entire Buu saga is very messy though. First Vegeta fights Buu and it could have ended with his sacrifice. Would be a good end to Buu. Then Gotenks try it and never manage to do much because they are not taking anything seriously, despite their parents getting killed by Buu. They could have just skipped the whole gotenks thing. Didnt even need for those kids to be super saiyan, it didnt mean anything to the plot in the end.
Then Gohan tries it and it could have ended greatly just with that too, Gohan being a serious fighter and really becomeing an adult. But nope, again it must faill.. then Goku and Vegeta fuse and its still not enough.. then of course Goku has to save the day again with Vegeta getting to assist a little.

And of course earth being blown up and everyone getting killed is stupid too, and just makes it felt all the stronger that death is meaningless and everything can just be wished back. Was not much point to it. Heck, through this everyone of the cast has died and been returned to life.

But to get back to the secondary Z fighters, something did occur to me.. It seems to me that at the time that they fight the Saiyans, Krillin is stronger than Piccolo. Considering how he took out three saibamen on his own and was the only one who was capable of killing Nappa. Also showed some other good moves through the fight. Heck, untill Goku showed up he was basicly doing the best of everyone. I really do like that fight.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I kind of thought Vegeta's SS1 transformation was out of his butt too. I mean it wasn't so bad but I always thought that Broly should have been a more major player (being one of the last Saiyans and all). Broly should have been less of a callous brute in his regular form he could have challenged Vegeta and Goku to a strongest Saiyan match, maybe give him a small army of Saiyans or fighters that respect only strength and then Broly could ultimately claim to be King of the Saiyans. Of course this would have been the point where Vegeta manages to go into SS1 and defeat Broly thereby reasserting himself as Prince of all Saiyans (presumably because Vegeta will never call himself King even though he probably could since his father is dead).

Dragon Ball was really inconsistent when it came to a character's strength for all the power level crap they gave early on. All that can really be known is if you're not a Saiyan the you're weak, if you're not Goku you won't win.

[Derpy Hooves]

​Dragon Ball didn't do power level crap, that was DBZ.

[Inhuman One]

I gues that Vegeta's transformation kind of came out of nowhere too, but there was a lot of build up to it and in a way I kind of like that you don't need to be a good guy for it. I mean Saiyans by default are NOT good guys.

Theres one huge error considering saiyans though: their low power levels. Just look at how stupidly fast Goku & friends advance in power. While Radditz was called weak with a power level of 1500 I think? and Nappa being an elite with 5000 or such.. I'd assume that basicly all Saiyans would be somewhere in between that with a rare few being stronger than that.
It could be argued that Goku had training in otherworld and all that which helped him, but Gohan did not have that. Yet he nearly killed Frieza in his third form while being like.. 5-6 years old or such? You'd think that Bardock's team would have seen much more action than Gohan, yet they never got anywhere near that power.

Also another huge error with the saiyans: Goku was not the only one send away as a baby to conquer other planets. What happened to the others? Should there not be more Saiyans out there? I'd imagine not all might have succeeded in their task, but I imagine some would.

As for Broly: I gues his personality was disappointing yes. He might have worked better as an arc in the manga too rather than a short movie. Though I must say theres so much wrong with the whole thing. Broly would have been King Vegeta's way to kill frieza. Just need to work on controlling the boy. If Paragus could do that later when needed, couldnt King Vegeta have something researched to keep him controlled from the start? Heck, Paragus might even help with that if it would mean mercy for his son. And after frieza is dead, King Vegeta could just dispose of Broly.

[Captain Jin]

Broly was non canon anyway. A lot of the movies were not considered canon so there is a reason some of the stuff in that regard doesn't really add up.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Broly and Cooler are some of the few I think should have been canon. Although that would create a mix up as to where that would put Frieza. Presumably Frieza was much stronger than his father but then Cooler seems so strong. How strong was King Cold then? Why don't they show any others of that species? Of an entire empire across the Galaxy how is it that neither Cooler, Frieza or King Cold have not hired some extremely powerful warriors even stronger than Ginyu, Vegeta etc?
But yeah for all the action that Bardock and his squad saw you would think they would be extremely strong. Which begs the questions why Frieza would kill them off and leave Vegeta, the only person who can lay claim to rule the Saiyans or for someone of his power level (like the strongest Saiyan alive at the time probably) wouldn't get killed off by Frieza?
I would also assume there were many other Saiyans alive at the time, no doubt someone as strong as Broly would have been the perfect candidate to unite them, they would probably come after Vegeta for selling out to Frieza and letting Frieza destroy the entire planet.

[Knight of Heaven]

First King Cold was the strongest, that much is mentioned in the series. It just didnt matter, at all, the gap between them and trunks was too much to be relevant.

Second There were quite a few sayans that survived if im not mistaken, Turles ( another Gokus Brother)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Also meet vegeta brother Tarbles....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Third how the hell would Broly unite anyone? It will defeat the porpuse of the character... because He didnt control his power, his power controled him, and thus he was slave to its nature. Destruction, and conflict and instint, it was what drived Broly, and his peculier hatred of kakarot.
Besides wasnt that what Brolys father wanted to do from the begining to conquer and rule by using broly? only to get killed by it....


The last thing i seen from dragon ball was that battle of gods movie, it was ok enough, if you are looking at some laughs, and light entertaiment. If you can overlook the already expected plot devices... at least Bills was interesting entertaining character.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I'm assuming that Broly wouldn't have been a dumb brute when I said that.

[Inhuman One]

Turles was indeed a survivor, and I actually quite like that he often shows up in videogames. I hope he will be in Xenoverse too.

Personly I never liked Broly much. Strenght is all he has going for him. No interesting personality or anything.

Always wanted to see more of Bardock's squad though, they where a cool team. I'd love to see all of them in a videogame sometimes, only saw Bardock and Fasha playable so far.

[Captain Jin]

Turles is not canon either.

The problem with making Cooler or King Cold canon I think sort of just takes away from what Frieza was. To me it's too DBZ-ish, you have this huge arc with how strong and terrible Frieza is and you win and then you find out he has a much stronger brother and dad? Where were they the whole time? Frieza wasn't really the top dog in some huge empire but just a little snotty prince? Eh, it totally undermines that whole arc and Frieza.

As far as Broly goes, I enjoyed the movie when I saw a fan dub a long long time ago. And I like the idea of Broly, but how it was done I don't know. I think there might have been a more interesting way to spin the concept of a legendary SSJ.

[Killerbee]

The problem with making Cooler or King Cold canon I think sort of just takes away from what Frieza was. To me it's too DBZ-ish, you have this huge arc with how strong and terrible Frieza is and you win and then you find out he has a much stronger brother and dad? Where were they the whole time? Frieza wasn't really the top dog in some huge empire but just a little snotty prince? Eh, it totally undermines that whole arc and Frieza.

I don't know, that's basically exactly what the Saiyan saga was all about, with Radditz being the snotty little prince of service here and Vegeta and Nappa being the "top dogs". And it's also a recurring theme in DBZ that there's always somebody stronger out there

[The Despondent Mind]

Oh boy that stupid fight with cooler(the first movie with Cooler), what a disappointment, Goku just turns into SS and it's done before you know it, and Cooler got so much build up and kind of looked awesome.

[Knight of Heaven]

Turles is not canon either.

The problem with making Cooler or King Cold canon I think sort of just takes away from what Frieza was.

king cold is Canon.... he apears in the Anime series....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Btw Is there a canon rule for dragon ball series? im not sure there are.

All these characters, Broly, Cooler, turles, bojak, tapion etc, are from Spin off movies. For all i care they all part of the same universe.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

The films are non-canon because they have lots of plot holes that interfere with the show. Most of the films don't follow the show's timeline, it's very random. Also GT is no longer considered canon. Where as the various comics in the Dragon Ball universe are considered an alternate timeline by most although there is no official statement on how the Manga and the show work in that respect. Only the more recent films that were revived by Toriyama are considered canon together with the show (and some of the comics).

[Inhuman One]

Alright, I just finished watching all of Dragonball.

The last few episodes where pretty weak, I was kind of expecting more from the ending. Heck, seemingly Goku invited none of his friends to his wedding! Also makes little sense to focus 6-7 episodes on the Ox King in danger after he barely had any appearances in all of dragonball. Might have worked better if someone more familiar was in danger. Also didnt really feel very urgent when they are traveling all across the world while that castle is on fire. Kind of reminds me of Mass Effect 3 and many other games where theres something supposedly urgent happening, but you must jump through many hoops to solve it.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I thought the same thing, they defeated Piccolo and the ending just becomes filler.

[Spartan999]

king cold is Canon.... he apears in the Anime series....

King Cold was def in the manga (CHP 329). Anything in the manga is considered cannon in the strictest sense.

Apparently the stuff Akria was not involved with is considered non-cannon to the fans (Note: This does not apply to me).

That includes all the movie minus Battle Of Gods and maybe the Tarble&Bardock OVA .

[Knight of Heaven]

King Cold was def in the manga (CHP 329). Anything in the manga is considered cannon in the strictest sense.

Apparently the stuff Akria was not involved with is considered non-cannon to the fans (Note: This does not apply to me).

That includes all the movie minus Battle Of Gods and maybe the Tarble&Bardock OVA .

Honestly i dont see what is the fuss all about this Anime series.... it isnt even a good Anime.

I enjoyed to wacth it when i was 13 years old, but that was it.

There is plenty of better Anime series and much more memorable too imo.