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Thread: Dragonball Z topic.

  1. #681
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    Well here's a fun thing to do right here in the forum.

    How would you have continued the story after Z? Instead of Super, it's your show. How many saga's would there be? who are the villains? what are the Z fighters doing?
    How much time passes?

    I'll start.

    I'd start the series a few years after Buu's defeat, with Trunks and Gotten about 12 years in age, a little taller. They'd be about Gohan's size during the Cell saga.

    1. Tournament saga.
    First arch is a tournament with pretty much just the Z fighters competing. People are no longer oblivious to their power, they have seen it enough times during the last tournament. The only non- Z fighters that compete would have limited ki abilities at least.
    The Z fighters have agreed on two rules for this tournament: No transformations, and they keep their power level limited so that all of them are at the exact same power level. Master Roshi or Korin can be there as the judge since they are good with power levels.
    It would again be a tournament about techniques and tactics, and not about power levels. And it would not be interrupted by villains.
    The non Z fighters would be first to be beaten, but some could put up a good fight. Crane Hermit could return with new students, one of which could actually reach the power limit that the Z fighters put up between themselves while the others would be too weak. This guy is beaten by Tien, and takes his loss very seriously. Being former Crane, his very goal would be to defeat the former top student. He would take his loss hard but we get back to that later.
    In this tournament, the least experienced fighters are defeated first.
    Goten, Trunks, Gohan and Ciao-Tsu are first out due to lack of experience. Yamcha just after them.
    Some interesting match ups would take place:

    Tien vs Vegeta.
    Vegetal would obviously be overconfident here and Tien would surprise him with many techniques, dominating a lot of the match. Vegeta does narrowly win in the end though by playing a bit dirty and doing something tactical. Both now have some mutual respect for each other, they are both warriors after all and of a more similar mindset about training.

    Krillin vs Goku.
    It would be a great callback to the past, and they would fight pretty even but eventually Krillin gets the upper hand and wins since he has more talent with new techniques and tactics while for Goku the main technique has always been to pull transformations and extra power out of his butt. Which he can't do now.

    Piccolo vs Majin Buu.
    Both regenerating and using various abilities, Piccolo would win in the end since he simply is a better fighter. Buu could possibly be disqualified by raising his power too high.

    The finale would be Vegeta against Piccolo.
    Would be a very long and brutal finale, one in which both of them push themselves to the limits, getting increasingly more brutal since well, they know the other can take it and would do the same. In the end, Piccolo wins with an energy shot from the mouth when Vegeta has him grappled and ready to push out of the arena.

    2. Demon saga.
    The crane student mentioned earlier, seeks power in dark places. He draws it from the demon realm, returning more powerful and challenges Tien.
    Their fight draws the attention of other Z fighters who arrive soon, Goku is ready to jump in but Vegeta stops him. As a warrior and now respecting Tien more, he sees this is Tien's fight and they should not interfere.
    Tien would use his full power here, gets nearly beaten to death by this crane student but manages to win with a new technique: He uses the four witches technique to get more arms and uses two to power up a tri-beam as he forces his opponent to move to the right position with Dodon rays from his remaining hands. The crane student is battered and defeated, and the demon power now claims him, taking full control and transforming his body to a stronger form.
    Krillin and Yamcha now jump in to help, Goku could encourage them to fight thinking its more on their level and that he is not needed here while Vegeta could simply claim no warrior from earth could be a challenge for him.
    The demon could however kill Tien, and when Piccolo arrives to fight him, it could abandon the old body to instead merge with Piccolo, him being kind of a demon could make this easier.
    So now they face a Piccolo who is far stronger than before, and as vicious as his father was. Krillin and Yamcha withdraw, heavily wounded and clearly outmatched. Goku and Vegeta fight him in turns, until Piccolo takes advantage of Goku's soft side and kills him.
    Afterwards Vegeta holds nothing back and actually is still stronger but Piccolo regenerates faster now causing him to beat him in the end.
    Gohan and Buu arrive then, and Gohan still has it difficult to fight his mentor and friend despite him having killed Goku already.
    When Piccolo also kills Buu however after a tough fight, Gohan is pushed further, and unleashes a fury like he used to as a kid when pushed too far, overpowering Piccolo and destroys him until almost nothing remains and he is thought dead. The demon leaves his body, and just when it is about to claim Vegeta as a new host, master Roshi shows up and gives a small but serious speech as he performs the evil containment wave which claims his life but captures the demon.
    The demon's prison is kept safe by Dende until they find a way to destroy it permanently.
    Goku is brought back to life with the dragon balls, Roshi chooses to stay dead (he found some pretty girls in the after life) and Tien does not want to be wished back yet, he stays dead to train. First with Olibu, and later with others to return later.

    Now the story moves forward, showing some scenes surrounding the final episode of Dragonball Z and after it.

    3. Shadow of the Saiyans saga.
    A new dominant power has risen in the galaxy. Goku was not the only Saiyan send to another planet as a kid to destroy it as an adult, other Saiyans who survived the destruction of their planet found each other, banded together, learned of Frieza being behind it and laid low. Once Frieza and his father where destroyed, they obliterated what remained of Frieza's forces and grew stronger through this war and they now run the same scheme of conquering planets and selling them to the highest bidder.
    So now something familiar happens: Two saiyan pods land on earth.
    Vegeta finds them first and talks with them, they don't recognize him as their prince and call him soft. As Vegeta is about to power up and boast about his power, Yamcha arrives along with Goten and Trunks. Them being teenagers now, they get along quite fine with Yamcha who is rather laid back and has similar interests, he's like the cool uncle to hang out with which they did until they felt this power and investigated.
    Yamcha gets confident and wants to get even for last time Saiyans arrive on earth, and Vegeta humors him.
    Yamcha fights one of the Saiyans one on one, and defeats him with a kamehameha, leaving him heavily wounded.
    The second Saiyan then steps in and defeats him easily. Vegeta now tells Trunks that this would be good exercise for him, Trunks fights the Saiyan while Vegeta points out his every mistake.
    Surprisingly, the Saiyan goes super saiyan and proves to be stronger than Trunks, Goten then jumps in and gets to fight him alone for a while when Trunks is knocked out. When things look bad, Vegeta finishes off this Saiyan effortlessly while saving the teens and berating them for their mistakes.
    The weaker Saiyan escapes however, heavily wounded.

    4. Saiyan empire saga.
    The weaker saiyan warns the others and they plan to return with greater numbers. Foreseeing this however and with the help of King Kai, a number of the Z fighters go into space to take the fight to them, away from earth.
    Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan, Trunks, Goten and Uub all leave earth for this and fight against the Saiyans on alien planets and space ships.
    In the meanwhile the demon breaks free back on earth and now takes physical form without a body, having forged its own over the years and used it to break out. Krillin, Yamcha, 18 and 17 are now forced to fight this battle on their own. It's a tough battle, they have good moments but can't win and 17 dies. When all seems hopeless, the dragon balls have been gathered and by his request, Tien is brought back to life and kills the demon with an improved version of the evil containment wave, one that destroys demons without claiming his life.
    Tien is now much stronger as well due to years of training in otherworld. Goku has sensed the threat and teleports back to earth only to find out Tien already saved it, he takes Tien with him back to the fight, Tien now being of about the same power as Piccolo.
    Getting separated during the fights against all these Saiyans, everyone gets involved in some intense battles. Goku and Vegeta attack the leader while the others take on the rest.
    Goten and Trunks really come into their own here, developing more of their own techniques and fighting more separately. They try to fusion but their opponent manages to end it with a technique.
    Tien and Piccolo manage to push themselves to new heights as well, coming up with new techniques as they fight and increasing their power.
    The weak Saiyan who was the first they encountered is encountered several more times, getting beaten up again to near death several times but managing to escape, always hiding his increased power until it is too late and he is stronger than any other Saiyan due to the zenkai boosts.
    Goku and Vegeta manage to kill him together with a combined attack, which however claims their lives.
    With the Saiyans defeated, a lot of them dead, the remaining ones surrender and are kept under close watch. Their planet dealing days are over.
    Trunks and Goten meet a Saiyan twin in the aftermath however amongst these survivors and they start dating them. (with some hilarious moments early on when they can't tell them apart which Saiyan women might respond more fiercely to than a regular woman.)

    Goku and Vegeta do not return, the torch has finally truly been passed on for the final saga a few years later.
    Goten and Trunks are now young adults, Pan is about 8 years old. Krillin, Yamcha and Tien have started a martial arts school together, a new one. Neither crane or turtle. They train a new generation of human warriors, with their recent victory against the demon they feel that humanity should be capable of defending their own planet.
    Marron is one of the students. Both her parents fight after all.
    Gohan is not a fighter, and is quite happy with his family life. Mainly he just trains with Pan now for fun, not too seriously.

    5. The lord of death.
    For the final chapter, a powerful Namekian sorcerer arrives on earth, gathers the dragon balls and increases their power before he makes a wish.
    His wish is to revive the most powerful beings who threatened earth, and with the second wish he makes them obedient. In death many of them have become stronger.

    The returned warriors are: King Piccolo, Raditz, Nappa, Frieza, King Cold, Dr Gero, Cell, Dabura, Babidi and the stronger Saiyan who Vegeta blew up.
    They are all send after another Z fighter:
    -King Piccolo fights Piccolo.
    -Raditz and Nappa crash the new martial arts school to fight Krillin, Tien and Yamcha.
    -Cell fights against Gohan.
    -Frieza fights against Trunks.
    -Dabura fights against Uub.
    -the stronger Saiyan fights against Goten.
    -Dr Gero fights against 18.

    In the meanwhile Babidi is not under control since thats kind of his thing, the wish did not work. As he clashes with the sorcerer, King Cold is accidentally freed from the control as well when the Namekian kills Babidi. Now King Cold takes charge and commands the sorcerer. Instead of aiding anyone of the combatants, he lets them all die. When Frieza is about to die, he even betrays him and finishes him off himself.
    Through the sorcery of the Namekian, King Cold absorbs their power and fights the Z fighters, overpowering most of them as he transforms several times through the battle until Goten and Trunks are the only ones left standing who can take him on.
    King Cold takes on a new form even, beyond anything Frieza did. Not a tacky gold, but a shiny white silver form with ice blue eyes.
    They defeat him together when Goten does a spirit bomb, his father telling him from beyond the grave to have faith and do it.
    And Trunks creates a new attack that combines something of his own and of Vegeta, being spoken to as well by his father beyond the grave.
    Trunks attack is the surprise attack to hit Cold in the back, destroying him between their attacks.

    And so ends the series, with Goten and Trunks solidified as the new protectors, possibly fathering their first kids. Who could bear a resemblance to Goku and Vegeta. And the three human Z fighters training increasingly stronger students who could have an average power level of around 10000 at that point. Pan and Uub could be fighting too of course, and Gohan being quite happy that he does not have to.
    Piccolo could return to Namek, and the series could end with Pan deciding to hunt for the dragon balls.

  2. #682
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    I refuse to keep talking about Dragon Ball or tournament arcs unless all of you heathens watch Yu Yu Hakusho.

    If you watch Yu Yu Hakusho you will learn:

    A) how Dragon Ball influenced what came after
    B) how Yu Yu Hakusho influenced what came after (aka how everyone else copied this)
    C) how a 19 volume manga and 110 episode show managed to compete with giants such as Dragon Ball during a time of economic recession
    D) how the Shonen genre was at its absolute best
    E) how to write an engaging character story
    F) how to correctly use tournament arcs to develop characters and plot points
    G) how to correctly use formulas
    H) how to write a simple but interesting fight
    I) how to write a compelling villain
    J) why Yoshihiro Togashi is brilliant but lazy

    Some motivation:
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; November 01, 2017 at 06:09 PM.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  3. #683

    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    Look im not saying Super is an Anime master piece, far from it. I just think its fun for the most part, in a light hearted manner. Also i tend to apreciate some of the things they have done ( expanding the DB lore in an interesting way for one). I like the god characters and the god lore, so im ok with that.

    Obviously they could have done a lot of things better as character dynamics go. Its just that i felt from the begining it isnt that kind of show. And i dont think DBZ is far better or different in model then Super for the most part anyway.

    Honestly im just having fun with Super for what it it, and for nostalgia sake, and glad it is at least more interesting and far better then GT was.

    Of course there are way better shows. Currently the big news of this Fall Season, is Inuyashiki actualy. Im loving it.

  4. #684
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.



    Interview with directors Kimitoshi Chioka and Hiroyuki Sakurada in Spanish. For those of you who do not speak Spanish the gist of it is that Dragon Ball Super is basically done by Toei Animation and Toyotaro, who does the Manga for Shueisha. Akira Toriyama's role is less direct but Fuji TV and Toei Animation felt that after Dragon Ball GT they needed to get Akira Toriyama on board. They were able to create Dragon Ball Super due to the popularity of Kai, as well as the two new movies, and they felt that the time was right to get funding and capitalize on the popularity of the series as well as to pull Toriyama out of retirement to tell them what he wanted the series to be, which he does by sending them outlines and designs, they do the rest.

    Bit of a side not but it seems that the Manga is written and drawn by Toyotaro with the supervision of Toriyama. So Toriyama gives him an idea of what he wants and Toyotaro does it. In fact some of the designs were created by Toyotaro himself. Toyotaro was also the one who wrote in that Vegeta went Super Saiyan God (the Red form) and convinced Toriyama to keep it, since Toriyama did not want to initially. Toriyama also came up with making Trunks a Kaioshin apprentice. For some reason in the anime they haven't done this though.

    They also dispel rumours that Dragon Ball Super is ending soon. The Tournament arc will keep going until probably March of 2018 but the series is not ending. I wouldn't be surprised if the show went on until 2020 given how much money they are making with the return of Dragon Ball and the other tie in material.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  5. #685
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    Saw episode 114, animation was good, Freeza was fun... but can Kale and Caulifla just go away already? Also I swear to Zeno that they just cheated, how are they using Potara? Vegeta is clearly stronger than Toppo, if only they would show us the goddamn fight, but no we have to focus on the mother ing Super Saiyan girls!!! Bull , Kefla (Kale+Caulifla fusion) could not be stronger than SSJ God Goku, SSJ Blue Vegeta was many times stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks, and that was before the Zamasu arc.

    Also just read chapter 29 of the Manga, it seems that of all the gods Beerus, Belmod and Quitela are the strongest, though Belmod appears to be the most ruthless and the sneakiest. It is stated that Toppo indeed has God Ki and that Jiren is in fact stronger than Belmod. Whether Belmod is stronger than Beerus, or Jiren for that matter, remains to be seen. But Jiren has to be at least on Beerus' level if not stronger.
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; November 05, 2017 at 07:34 PM.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  6. #686
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    Eh I'm not really bothering with watching super, just not worth it. I'm just re watching some bits of the saiyan saga.
    Which made me wonder though, if those idiots actually did the smart thing and brought Goku back to life one day earlier so he would have been there or he actually was brought back into his dead body he would have been there from the start.

    What would that truly have changed though? What if Goku was there? I assume that Gohan would likely have been send home then, but the others likely would have been there. They trained for this after all and I reckon they'd feel pretty confident considering how much their power increased over a year.

    I imagine that they wouldn't have bothered with the saibamen, but I don't see Goku just taking Nappa and Vegeta both on at once either then.
    Would probably have been Goku against Vegeta and Nappa against everyone else.

    Some would probably still have died, but probably less. I mean, Shiao-Tsu would not have blown himself up if Goku was there I imagine.
    If Vegeta was busy fighting Goku he wouldn't be that likely to warn Nappa about the destructo disc so they could have killed him. Yamcha would have brought something to the table too, he would have fought Nappa, unlike Gohan.

  7. #687
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by saxdude View Post
    .....
    Finally saw your drawings. Cool stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inhuman One View Post
    Eh I'm not really bothering with watching super, just not worth it. I'm just re watching some bits of the saiyan saga.
    Which made me wonder though, if those idiots actually did the smart thing and brought Goku back to life one day earlier so he would have been there or he actually was brought back into his dead body he would have been there from the start.

    What would that truly have changed though? What if Goku was there? I assume that Gohan would likely have been send home then, but the others likely would have been there. They trained for this after all and I reckon they'd feel pretty confident considering how much their power increased over a year.

    I imagine that they wouldn't have bothered with the saibamen, but I don't see Goku just taking Nappa and Vegeta both on at once either then.
    Would probably have been Goku against Vegeta and Nappa against everyone else.

    Some would probably still have died, but probably less. I mean, Shiao-Tsu would not have blown himself up if Goku was there I imagine.
    If Vegeta was busy fighting Goku he wouldn't be that likely to warn Nappa about the destructo disc so they could have killed him. Yamcha would have brought something to the table too, he would have fought Nappa, unlike Gohan.
    I think Goku said to specifically revive him after however long because he wanted to train. Although either way Goku would have been defeated by Vegeta. They just assumed that Goku would come back stronger which he did, though not as strong Vegeta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    Look im not saying Super is an Anime master piece, far from it. I just think its fun for the most part, in a light hearted manner. Also i tend to apreciate some of the things they have done ( expanding the DB lore in an interesting way for one). I like the god characters and the god lore, so im ok with that.

    Obviously they could have done a lot of things better as character dynamics go. Its just that i felt from the begining it isnt that kind of show. And i dont think DBZ is far better or different in model then Super for the most part anyway.

    Honestly im just having fun with Super for what it it, and for nostalgia sake, and glad it is at least more interesting and far better then GT was.

    Of course there are way better shows. Currently the big news of this Fall Season, is Inuyashiki actualy. Im loving it.
    At the crux of it the issue is that Dragon Ball Super is just throwing characters on the screen and having them fight. But the sad reality is that we as an audience do not care about Hitto, Jiren, Toppo, Kale, Caulifla, Cabbe etc and we have no reason to care about them. In Dragon Ball we knew Muten Roshi, Yamcha, Krillin and Goku and even the characters like Nam played a role in adding to their characterization. We were also introduced to Chaotzu, Tienshinhan, Tao Pi Pi, Chi Chi and Piccolo; these were characters that we cared about and knew who they were. They weren't perfect tournament arcs but still a hell of a lot better than the arc we have now.
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; November 10, 2017 at 03:51 PM.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  8. #688

    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    At the crux of it the issue is that Dragon Ball Super is just throwing characters on the screen and having them fight...
    That is DBZ too.

    The characters you are naming are all of them from the origanl DB, wich i think is a show a part imho.
    Last edited by Knight of Heaven; November 10, 2017 at 06:31 PM.

  9. #689
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    It's the same series. If you go read the Dragon Ball manga it is all one thing.
    In Dragon Ball Z though they at least gave us a reason to care. Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan, Freeza and Cell all had something going. In DB Super characters don't even have motivations or any characterization, why do we care that any of these characters are fighting at all.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  10. #690
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    There has not been any good villain in Super yet as far as I can tell.

    Goku Black and this Zamasu probably, but we already had Bardock, Turles, Goten and the creepy goku doll as Goku copies before. It's been done.

    Jiren and Toppo are ridiculous, and not like the Ginyu force who where both ridiculous and scary at the same time.

    Worst thing about Super is how they will probably cram all those terrible characters into future fighting games in favor of many characters of DBZ.
    It already happens with Xenoverse, the only DLC character not from super or GT was Bojack.

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    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    At first I thought that Black would be absolutely terrible but after watching the whole arc I was okay with it. Also with regards to Zamasu while he was not executed in the best way and was essentially Shinobu Sensui with a god complex, I couldn't help but notice that he was a decent enough departure from the utter stupidity of the Majin Buu Arc. In fact I actually rather like Zamasu and the return of Future Trunks. However I admit that it could have been handled much better.

    If we think about it the only real villains that DB Super has given us so far have been Freeza and Zamasu. Characters like Champa, Hitto and Jiren are not villains in the traditional sense. Though with Hitto he was literally just a Tienshinhan reskin, even if I think he is cool he is barely a character. Champa was just fat Beerus as well and the characters that were introduced in that arc are boring, poorly written and rather poorly designed (only Hitto looks cool) as well as being pretty useless most of the time. In the current arc they did this times 14 (cause there are now 70 new boring, poorly written and poorly designed characters). You know the characters that we actually care about? them though!

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

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    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    Well Frieza should not have been brought back to begin with, should have revived King Cold instead since we saw so little of him. Frieza came back 4 times now after being presumed dead.
    First after being hit with the spirit bomb, which was a great come back.
    Second time as Mecha frieza which I thought was a bit weak but hey we got King Cold to make up for it.. who was then completely wasted.
    Third time revived by his henchmen and getting an ugly new form.
    And now the fourth time the good guys bring him back to fight in a tournament.. seriously?

    Yes he was a great villain, but just move on or at least bring back someone else for a change. Raditz would have been an excellent choice.
    A saiyan warrior with the same potential as Goku and Vegeta, not as stupid as Nappa and I assume he could be reasoned with. It was a waste to have him appear in so ew episodes anyways considering he is Goku's brother. It could even get more into the backstory of the Saiyans other than Vegeta talking about pride warrior race this and that which gets tiring.

  13. #693

    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    Third time revived by his henchmen and getting an ugly new form
    You think Golden Freeza is ugly?

    What is wrong with you....

    Third and second form are ugly... Golden freeza is awesome.

    And now the fourth time the good guys bring him back to fight in a tournament.. seriously?
    Technicaly he is not back, since he is still dead. Also it was to defend the universe erasure, wich Freeza is also part of. And the gods dont care much if he is good or bad in the first place.

    Raditz would have been an excellent choice
    Freeza is stronger ( on par with goku and vegeta), and we seen very litle of raditz to acertain why would he be an excellent choice.

    At first I thought that Black would be absolutely terrible but after watching the whole arc I was okay with it
    Im ok with it, but to be honest it isnt my favorite arch of super. I think Zamasu was nicely voiced for instance, i just didnt like the ending part very much, and how it unfolds.

    I think the first arch with beerus is constantly overlooked, because it is the arch of the movie, but i ratcher like it very much ( if you overlook some of the bad animation on some points, allthough i hear the english version corrects those...) The champa tournament is also pretyy cool imo. Even if so short.

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    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    Seeing how they even brought Master Roshi, they set the bar very low for who goes to the tournament.

    Thing with Raditz is, he is a Saiyan and Saiyans get to pull all the power ups and transformations out of their butt. I assume that if he'd return he would probably be as strong as the Saiyans from that other universe. He also has his tail, and probably would have overcome the weakness.
    Vegetal can create an artificial moon and as a team they can probably figure out a way to protect that tail, he could keep it around his waist in ape form for one.

    Frieza is simply too much of a risk to get for the tournament considering all he did. He did blow up the earth.
    Even Cell would have been a better choice to revive, he has experience with tournaments and is pretty clever, also knows an incredible amount of moves and the tactics of the Z fighters. He'd probably absorb some enemies in the tournament to get stronger too.

    Olibu or Pikkon could have been safer and still good choices too. They wouldn't need to be watched and have power.

    Guildo can stop time, that would be ridiculously powerful in a team battle like this.

    Dabura can turn people to stone with his spit and is a very clever tactical fighter.

    Either way, there are plenty of options other than Frieza who is overused at this point.

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    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    Though with the return of Muten Roshi, while completely weird, they at least established that he was training and even climbed Korin Tower again. They handled it quite well all things considered, I think that it was a nice send off but I do think that Tien and Yamcha deserve the same. But Yamcha has been the butt of all jokes since the 23rd Tournament Arc, he hasn't been relevant to anything since Tien broke his leg, hell he didn't do anything in the King Piccolo Arc either. Yamcha was played for laughs in the Baba mini arc and did very little in the Red Ribbon Army Arc (only showed up when Hasky tried to steal the Dragon Balls). It is almost like Toriyama regrets ever writing Yamcha.

    I don't get why Raditz was ever a character the more I think about it. Was his appearance and ground breaking revelations a Toriyama joke? Did Toriyama intend to make him a full time character but then changed his mind and killed him off? How often do they introduce a protagonist's brother only to immediately kill him off and never bring him up again? He wasn't even in the Bardock movie! Sometimes I wonder if having Raditz at all was a good idea.

    Not sure about Freeza to be honest. If they use him well it could still work but so far it is anyone's guess whether they will use their characters well or if ultimately this arc will be any good. Though I also want to see what the manga does differently.

    Olibu and Pikkon should be canon, don't care what anyone says. They need to recognize good ideas when they seem them and use them regardless of who came up with it.

    These side characters are something that I have always wondered about. For instance why bother introducing Jaco at all if he was only going to fight in Resurrection F?
    Why use Oopa and Bora throughout the Red Ribbon Army/Uranai Baba arc if they were just going to disappear permanently?
    Why give us cool filler characters like Pikkon, Olibu, Shula, Melee and Sky Dragon if they were never going to be used ever again?
    Why aren't Bojack and Broly canon (You there! Don't reach for that keyboard, I know what you're thinking... Kale isn't Broly so shut up about it).
    Why don't they just summon Spike the Devilman if he can just use the Devil Mite Beam to take out any villain?
    Why are there so many characters from Dragon Ball like Oolong, Pu'er, Suno, Eighter, Nam, Giran, King Chappa etc who never do anything?
    Why were cool characters like King Cold and Dabura ever introduced only to be completely wasted?
    Why isn't Piccolo at least on par with Vegeta and Goku or at least somewhere on that level?
    Why are the characters that we like completely ignored and instead we have to put up with worthless like Kale and Caulifla?

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  16. #696

    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    And none with the same impact. Fat Buu is kinda lame and no on else would have the same wow power as Frieza aside from possibly Cell. But after bringing back Frieza the first time to turn around and do it with Cell, who'd being pulling a similar transformation out the ass would be even more lame. Even more ridiculous is the notion of Radditz, why not just plant a saibaman on Beerus's planet for a god saibaman if we're stretching that far?

    And bringing back Frieza was essential I suppose. We wouldn't have Super without Battle of the Gods and Revival of Frieza after all. Honestly the roster is fine and iconic to the series. The only surprise is that Tien even made the team, he's probably among the least popular DBZ characters in spite of my personal opinions. Plus Frieza has been absolutely slaying it this entire arc, his contributions are far more entertaining than most competitors.

  17. #697
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    Hiromi Tsuru who was the voice actress for Bulma since 1986 was found dead in her car. Unfortunately this has been the first voice actor death in Dragon Ball. Although Joji Yanami who is the voice actor for King Kai, has been sick since 2015. What this means for the characters is hard to say and it could mean cutting down on their screen time despite being recast.

    If that wasn't terrible Chris Ayres, the Freeza voice actor for the English dub in DB Kai and DB Super, was diagnosed with Emphysema (among other lung problems) and now requires a double lung transplant and double bypass surgery to clear out his arteries in that area. Thankfully they raised like $30,000 to help with his treatment but even then the treatment he requires is not at all easy and still has a very high risk.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  18. #698
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    I thought the original Japanese voice actor for Tien had died quite a while ago already?

    Regarding characters and lost potential.. It really feels like Toriyama likes redemption a lot however he does not think ahead with it. He keeps too many characters around perhaps considering they just get ignored later.

    The introduction of Krillin was great to give Goku a friend of his own age, he filled a new role. Sadly they never allowed Krillin to be better at something than Goku, not from the very beginning. Whenever Krillin seemed to do better Goku just pulled something out of his butt to show Krillin never stood a chance.
    I think they really should have focused more on Krillin and Yamcha, keep those three the central Z fighters.

    Seeing how little they did with Tien and Chiao Tsu after their arc, I think it might have been better if they where not there during the King Piccolo arc, made an appearance again during the next tournament to fight again, and disappeared afterwards like the other tournament fighters.
    Yamcha could have had a Senzu bean to heal his leg and could have fulfilled Tien's part in the King Piccolo arc.

    Piccolo did serve more of a purpose through the series, so it was good to have him join the group though I do feel he turned good a little too fast. Might have been better if Goku, Krillin and Yamcha fought Raditz first before Piccolo joins forces with them to help goku after the other two guys are beaten.

    Vegetal should not have joined the good guys though. If they had to have a Saiyan join them, it should have been Raditz since he is Goku's brother. He would have had more story potential. With him they could have explored the family past more, he could have talked about their parents and while there could have been a strong rivalry still with Goku, there would also be the family connection.

    Seeing how Gohan was thrown aside after a lot of build up, they should not have written him to be that overpowered I think, or he should have been proven to not be a warrior in the Saiyan saga and could have stayed home during the Namek saga. Chi-Chi could train him some outside of his studies.
    Yamcha could still have died during the Saiyan saga, but without Tien and Chiao-Tsu, he could have been the one dying against Nappa after a powerful attack that takes all his power.

    For the Namek Saga, it could have been Krillin and Goku going to Namek with Bulma to revive Piccolo and Yamcha. Vegeta could still be around during the Namek Saga, but when he dies he could have stayed dead due to the wish being formulated differently.
    It would actually allow Krillin and Goku to bond more, making Goku more of a team player and also making Krillin's death even more impactful after they spend the entire saga fighting together against Frieza's forces.
    After learning how Frieza controlled the saiyans he could have learned more about Raditz, giving Goku the wish to revive him. Considering that Krillin, Piccolo and Yamcha would have surpassed him that far they could go along with that wish and Raditz could start training alone.


    Majin-Buu should also not have returned, waste of a character with no personality or much character.
    Gohan however could have turned into a good fighter by that point, he could have started fighting for real in the android saga, contributing there but it could have been maybe been a full on team effort to kill Cell, which would have been fitting considering he has all their DNA. They could have actually been smart about their powers.
    goku could still have died, which could have triggered the others. During a beam struggle, Krillin could have tossed a destructo disc barrage at him and the others could afterwards destroy the pieces with powerful blasts.

    The god stuff could have just never happened, instead they could have focused on something to keep the other characters relevant. Something maybe only humans can unlock, and Piccolo could possibly fuse with another Namekian.

  19. #699
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    Actually you are correct. Hirotaka Suzuoki died in 2006 and so he was replaced by Hikaru Midorikawa for DB Kai. That could be a reason why they cut down Tien's screen time though an unlikely reason at this point.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  20. #700
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Dragonball Z topic.

    They just added too many characters and never allowed anyone to be more useful than Goku.

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