Best Hellenic Roster?

[Ecthelion]

So, I think most people would immediately say Macedon, Egypt, or Seleucid.
But I think actually the best would be Bactria.

Their roster has all the essentials of a top tier Hellenic roster:
* Cataphracts
* Elephants
* Superior shock cavalry
* Thorax Sword and Pikemen
* Horse archers, particularly the mercenary Scythians
* Light melee cavalry
* Heavy melee cavalry
* All the best foot archers
* They also get a superb high end hoplite unit which the others don’t. It’s ideal to bracket the flanks of pike lines.

Their only weakness is the lack of a cheap shock cavalry unit.

[Carl Jung was right]

I hate to be a hipster, but I actually favor Athens due to an availability of fast, low upkeep cheap hoplites from the near beginning. Given the state of the game's mechanics currently you could easily steamroll most opposition just using these versatile, jack of all trades hoplites. And besides, I've grown to dislike the cumbersome "macedonian" tactics of the Successor factions, possibly because of my over-reliance on them in almost every RTW campaign I've played in the past.

[the lightning legion]

the Seleucids are better all rounders IMO

[Ecthelion]

I didn't include the "Greek" factions since I really don't think they're competitive without key cavalry options.

I've only recently rediscovered how to use shock cavalry (you have to leave them in the fight for about 5-10 seconds post charge to get the full bonus), and the cataphracts are absolutely insane. Literally anything, even from the front can be destroyed by these things.

Any faction without it is at a loss IMO.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

the Seleucids are better all rounders IMO

I think its Bactria, great hoplites, horse cav. and Bactria hillmen.
The only thing they lack is Chariots really. (damn I hate that thing!)

[the lightning legion]

Seleucid has shield bearers too last time I checked plus they have azats and Hellenic cataphracts

[Invincible]

I think its Bactria, great hoplites, horse cav. and Bactria hillmen.
The only thing they lack is Chariots really. (damn I hate that thing!)

Not having chariots is pretty big imo. In my Egyptian campaign they slaughtered hundreds of men in each battle. Only disadvantage of them is how easy they die in autoresolve battles.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Seleucid has shield bearers too last time I checked plus they have azats and Hellenic cataphracts

Yeah just looked through the units, and it seems to me that the only thing Bactria has going for it, is its early game and area it controls.
But yeah it seems Selecuid is the "ace".

[the lightning legion]

and the price is literally everyone to your right hates you

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

and the price is literally everyone to your right hates you

Same goes for Bactria, but in their case is every one on your left .
Your allied hates you for fighting with other eastern nations, and a quick to ally up with every one else but you :S

[kamikazee786]

Its Mordor,

Mordor has the best hellenic roster

[Inhuman One]

Seleucids indeed seem to have the strongest hellenic roster.

I gues missle units on foot are not their strenght, but few factions actually have something special there.

Good melee infantry, good spear and pike infantry, powerfull shock cavalry, plenty of light cavalry, some mounted archers too I think, elephants and chariots.
Having a large selection of possible general bodyguard units is also a bonus not to be underestimated. If you see the enemy moving in on a village with no troops, it makes a difference when you can quickly put a unit there thats a perfect counter against whats comeing, and fill it up with mercenaries.

I gues Sparta has stronger spear infantry, but also a silly limit on them despite not really having anything else thats descent in their roster, and no cavalry generals is a weakness.
It's still a shame that the hellenistic factions actually in greece are not that special. Epirus and Athens have very generic rosters and not really anything unique in it. You can win a campaign with them just fine, but they lack some variety.. some units with a unique appearance which could help you decide to play as that faction.
Sparta does have some of that, and I wish Athens and Epirus had such a thing as well, some unique helmets or armor appearances unique to them.

[PointOfViewGun]

How well can they stand against Roman units though?

[the lightning legion]

silver shields always bring the bling to your slaughter without fail

[the lightning legion]

they fare about as well as any phalanx orientated faction does except with a dash of eastern horsemanship

[perifanosEllinas]

So, I think most people would immediately say Macedon, Egypt, or Seleucid. But I think actually the best would be Bactria. Their roster has all the essentials of a top tier Hellenic roster: * Cataphracts * Elephants * Superior shock cavalry * Thorax Sword and Pikemen * Horse archers, particularly the mercenary Scythians * Light melee cavalry * Heavy melee cavalry * All the best foot archers * They also get a superb high end hoplite unit which the others don’t. It’s ideal to bracket the flanks of pike lines. Their only weakness is the lack of a cheap shock cavalry unit.

I didn't include the "Greek" factions since I really don't think they're competitive without key cavalry options. I've only recently rediscovered how to use shock cavalry (you have to leave them in the fight for about 5-10 seconds post charge to get the full bonus), and the cataphracts are absolutely insane. Literally anything, even from the front can be destroyed by these things. Any faction without it is at a loss IMO.

You have confused the terms mate.The so called "Greek" factions as you say are actually called "Hellenic" factions in reality and they are the ones having Hellenic rosters (for example Macedon,Athens,Sparta,Syracuse etc. etc.).The word you're looking for about Egypt,Seleucids and Bactria is "Hellenistic" factions with "Hellenistic" rosters.

The "Greeks" were a small Hellenic tribe that lived in Epirus,so that's an inaccurate term.

Hellenic rosters don't have cataphracts,elephants and horse archers,the Hellenistic rosters do.

Sorry I had to be that guy,but someone had to get this right finally.

As for your question,I think Macedon has the best Hellenic roster and the Seleucids have the best Hellenistic roster.

[DeliCiousTZM]

Seleucid has the best Hellenistic rooster, followed by Bactria then Egypt then Macedon.

[Inhuman One]

I'd reckon that the seleucids will do quite well against the romans but I never had them clash yet.

They have strong infantry that can hold the line even if the roman infantry is stronger, and then you send in some cathapracts to finish the job and can use horse archers as well to lure troops away.
The romans might beat the seleucids with melee infantry, but the Seleucids seem superiour with every other troop type.

Its a bit hard to compare status though with the bloody annoying system that R2 uses that does not allow you to view any stats without using the #@&*^#^ online encyclopedia which I dont tend to use at all because its such an incredible pain to work with.

[DeliCiousTZM]

I'd reckon that the seleucids will do quite well against the romans but I never had them clash yet.

They have strong infantry that can hold the line even if the roman infantry is stronger, and then you send in some cathapracts to finish the job and can use horse archers as well to lure troops away.
The romans might beat the seleucids with melee infantry, but the Seleucids seem superiour with every other troop type.

Its a bit hard to compare status though with the bloody annoying system that R2 uses that does not allow you to view any stats without using the #@&*^#^ online encyclopedia which I dont tend to use at all because its such an incredible pain to work with.

You are right, Seleucid Roflstomp Rome.

[VanGoth]

How well can they stand against Roman units though?

In this scenario it's vital and decisive to win the cav engagement, the staying power of your infantry should provide enough of a time space to achieve that, kiting the main line until the cav engagement is decided in your favour would be advisable in some situations, too.

When the cav is finally available your inf, which in most cases isn't a killing but a holding force, can go toe to toe no matter what, the hammer is ready and it will be a bad day to be a roman soldier.

What would be a good roman setup to adapt hellenistic enemies, though?