The ""teutonic system" "familly non-tree" is broken.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

About the familly members of several barbarian factions, using the "teutonic system" :

I tested some of them in two ways :

1 : expansionism : I just make war to everybody and win the game. (that's the least funy part of the game I think). It works fine.
2 : protectionism : I just take one or two settlements and I resist as long as I can and intrigue and roleplay my game. That's how I like it. It is broken.

In situation 1, I just expand and conquer and get a lot of "familly members" and all works fine.
But in situation 2... I have a lot of familly member asking to join at the begining of the game. But when the time passes, I have less and less request, untill I have none. So my familly members just die one after the other, untill the unique situation where there is my faction leader and my faction heir.

Once one of those die, the game is over. Finish. So you lose the game because the game decided you didn't need familly members because you didn't expanded enough. (in some situations, a request of adoption is made and the game continue but it doesnt last long, next same situation and it is over)

It never occured to me with the classical familly tree. I played numerous of "protectionism" scenarii and it was fun. In fact, I had a lot more fun in those situations than in any other. (exemple : try to keep peace between Baktria and Seleucids, try to play a specific gallic tribe and not a union of tribes, etc)

So here it is... If you play the game like any dumb vanilla total war it is ok, but if you try a situation where you may have a lot of fun, it is impossible.

[Theo]

I'm about 200 turns into a Sweboz campaign atm. I stopped expanding after taking 3 provinces (so I had 4). Eventually I only had 3 FM's, but later I started getting the option to adopt people into the family. Then every time a FM died I would get a message about a candidate for adoption a few turns later.

How far are you into your campaign? It could be that with only 2-3 settlements this mechanic is broken. Or it could be that you just have to wait a bit longer to get adoption messages.

[Hummer]

I believe in vanilla, the amount of FM's you had was determined roughly by the amount of settlements. There was a generic ratio of 2/3 or something like that and if you were below that, adoptions occurred more frequently. If above, not at all.
However, I'm not sure if or how the mod has affected this.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

It was like that in vanilla, it is true. But in vanilla the game is not the same, of course.


Maybe I should try with three regions.

And when I say it is broken, it is because I can't wait more turns to have adoptions propositions. My family die and I lose the game. It is just stuck.

About when I was : around 250 turn.

[Earl of Memory]

Whenever this happened to me I would send a captain to war *always hoping he doesn't become a traitor* and I ALWAYS got the "adoption" thing. That solved the issue for me.

[the man, the myth, the legend]

quote - "So here it is... If you play the game like any dumb vanilla total war it is ok, but if you try a situation where you may have a lot of fun, it is impossible."

That is your opinion, I think if you play the dumb "turtle" way it is broken, if you play the fun vanilla total war way it works as it is supposed to. See what I did there. It is total war, not turtle war. The game requires you to have enough family members to be able to survive that is just how the game works, if you lost because your family members died out, well, you just lost, it has nothing to do with the game being broken. You're strategy failed because it was a "broken" strategy, try a new strategy next time and maybe you'll win.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

quote - "So here it is... If you play the game like any dumb vanilla total war it is ok, but if you try a situation where you may have a lot of fun, it is impossible."

That is your opinion, I think if you play the dumb "turtle" way it is broken, if you play the fun vanilla total war way it works as it is supposed to. See what I did there. It is total war, not turtle war. The game requires you to have enough family members to be able to survive that is just how the game works, if you lost because your family members died out, well, you just lost, it has nothing to do with the game being broken. You're strategy failed because it was a "broken" strategy, try a new strategy next time and maybe you'll win.

Yeah, I am so glad "the man, the myth, the legend" doesn't agree with me and is basically saying yo me that I should play the most historical mod if the history of tw as if it was not historical as as it was done for nothing.

Sorry but I always played that way on EB and it has NEVER been a problem BUT with the Teutonic system.

But, hey, your gloriousness, I am so sad I stopped you to live your dream by reporting something and by having a "turtle" gaming.

The fact is you are right, my point of view is not based on facts, your is and more : it is based on your Highness unfailingness.

Now : for serious people :

Sadly, the "man of the hour" function is not triggering. It seems that if you have only two provinces, you are not allowed to have more than two family members, except the first volley that is hardcoded.

[V.T. Marvin]

Apparently even the "teutonic" system requires some set up of family tree at the start of the game so maybe that you might switch the regular family tree on simply by switching the line "has_family_tree teutonic" to "has_family_tree yes" in EBII\Data\descr_sm_factions.txt file in the faction you want to play next. This change is NOT save-game compatible obviously, requires deleting EBII\Data\world\maps\base\map.rwm file and might not even work - I have not tried it yet myself.

Try it and see for yourself.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

Wow ! Thank you pahlava friend !

I will try this and report back when done.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

All right, report :

I changed the "teutonic" entry to "yes". I didn't delete the map.rwm for the purpose of the test :

It works. My sweboz faction has now a familly tree.

I passed one turn with success.
I didn't try anything else.
I can't say how it works and if the family tree feature works correctly
I can't say if it solve the problem or not
I can't say if it will crash at any family feature (death, birth, wedding

So I will probably test it further but not soon.

End of report.

[Gryphon Templar]

Slightly off topic: Role play and expansionism are not mutually exclusive. Especially not in EB 2 with the colony and culture system.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

Slightly off topic: Role play and expansionism are not mutually exclusive. Especially not in EB 2 with the colony and culture system.

No, it has nothing to do with it : roleplay means playing a faction as if we were that perticular faction, and the action can be fictional or historical. If you are playing romans and playing with only one region through all your game, it is quite non historical and I admit, probably difficult to play "roleplay" (now, if you wish to play a fictional situation where Rome is surrounded by ennemies, it could be fun, too). But if you are playing any faction that didn't expand much IRL, it is perfectly fine to play it without expansion. Trying to argue that "we HAVE TO expand if not, it means that we are not playing the game" is just fallacy and blunt stupidity based on blaming and gloating.

I've seen a lot of people here playing (in EB 1 and 2...) as Syracusai or other minor factions (by using an other faction to do the trick), I myself had fun playing Massalia, Belgae, fictional persian dynasty (persian =\= pahlava), one single sarmatian tribe, and, simple, Casse, Arverni or Aedui in the one single tribe fashion. (and Gote tribe too...)

Expansion is the flagship of Total war games, and EB has freed us of that nevrotic obsession and that's quite a good thing, and trying to force people to play again like in the dumb TW original gameplay is just slow minded totalitarism.

[Kull]

All right, report :

I changed the "teutonic" entry to "yes". I didn't delete the map.rwm for the purpose of the test :

It works. My sweboz faction has now a familly tree.

I passed one turn with success.
I didn't try anything else.
I can't say how it works and if the family tree feature works correctly
I can't say if it solve the problem or not
I can't say if it will crash at any family feature (death, birth, wedding

So I will probably test it further but not soon.

End of report.

We set up all the teutonic system families with real "hidden" families, so the V.T. Marvin method should work without any problem. Even though it wasn't strictly necessary, we included wives and sometimes even kids (plus a full set of female names) and basically everything the factions need in order to function as "real" families.

[Mementomoridc]

We set up all the teutonic system families with real "hidden" families, so the V.T. Marvin method should work without any problem. Even though it wasn't strictly necessary, we included wives and sometimes even kids (plus a full set of female names) and basically everything the factions need in order to function as "real" families.

Forgive my ignorance but what is the VT Marvin method, also why do all the work of making families if you are just going to hide them. I understand the Idea of there being no real family line for the factions you chose to make this way. But why not just give them a tree and not the option to pick faction heir like you do with the other factions?

Another side question related to this subject. Why were "Princesses" kept out of the game. I know rome marring a daughter to some random tribe is not historical but I could see each and every faction you decided to not give a tree doing it to create a alliance.

[Kull]

Forgive my ignorance but what is the VT Marvin method, also why do all the work of making families if you are just going to hide them. I understand the Idea of there being no real family line for the factions you chose to make this way. But why not just give them a tree and not the option to pick faction heir like you do with the other factions?

See post #8 for the mechanism. And we went to the trouble of setting up the families in the event we decided to go that route instead of using the teutonic system. As for use of this system (i.e the leading "strongman" becomes the next ruler), it's a better representation of the barbarian leadership system in this era. For KH, it represents the idea of this being a union of city states, not an empire.

Another side question related to this subject. Why were "Princesses" kept out of the game. I know rome marring a daughter to some random tribe is not historical but I could see each and every faction you decided to not give a tree doing it to create a alliance.

There were a lot of unintended side effects (stealing generals from other factions being the biggest issue), and we opted to just leave it out altogether.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

We set up all the teutonic system families with real "hidden" families, so the V.T. Marvin method should work without any problem. Even though it wasn't strictly necessary, we included wives and sometimes even kids (plus a full set of female names) and basically everything the factions need in order to function as "real" families.

Thank you for the intel !