Thank you
(at the moment we're in a kind of a swamp, as the other 2 members haven't log in for a while, but in some way we will do )
Thank you
(at the moment we're in a kind of a swamp, as the other 2 members haven't log in for a while, but in some way we will do )
Last edited by Ryoga84; February 11, 2015 at 07:09 AM.
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Uchronia Barbarorum v1.05 , ahistorical submod for Europa Barbarorum 1.2 WiP
Another Story: The Greek Wars v1.0 , submod for The Greek Wars 1.1 WiP
4th Age +1, v1.0 , submod for Fourth Age: Total War 2.6 WiP
good to see you again
I was biding my time with other mods and submods, but if you are back we are again on the road
then, what do you think of the 3 propositions?
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post14301350
As I see good points in each of them, I was thinking of mediating between the 3
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Uchronia Barbarorum v1.05 , ahistorical submod for Europa Barbarorum 1.2 WiP
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4th Age +1, v1.0 , submod for Fourth Age: Total War 2.6 WiP
I agree that we should mediate between the three ideas. I think the Thracian infantry needs to be heavily based around javelin armed troops in order to take account of the fact that they basically invented the peltast! Also, it will make them nice and distinct from the factions already in the mod.
Also, presumably, unlike the other factions they won't be based around a single capital and so will have several largeish settlements where recruitment of decent units is possible?
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
If you have implemented the faction already, could you send me your edited files and then I can just add the units directly to that? There are a few other adjustments I would like to try to the way units are recruited that I am also considering making at the same time, I'll let you know as I try them out. Also, what colour are we using for the Odryssians?
-As for the barracks system, I got an idea.
The Thracians are "barbarians" (hellenic Point of View), as such their economy isn's developed as the proper greeks or northern kingdoms ones.
So, I'd like to let them build their own barracks/stables/missile camps, costly and at a slower pace. It means that they will use much less money, but the costruction times will be increased.
For example:
Greek Muster Field: 3 seasons, 600 money
Thracian Muster Field: 4 seasons, 350 money (~ +25% time, ~ -40% cost)
-As for the faction roster, I'd like to do it like this (I had a previous version, but modified it after your proposition)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
any opinion?
(especially for the Infantry Barracks thing).
-For the state-of-the game, I'll make an archive and link it. At the moment, the Thracians are only implemented (which means, you can start a campaign or make a custom battle using them) but they lack all but the basic units (only Thracian Mercenaries and Greek Militia), which means we should also decide on a general unit (I suppose the only two options are Rhomphaiaphoroi or some heavy cavarly).
At the moment, the Odrysian are using the vanilla color and symbol of Parthia (which means violet), but I hope there's a better option out there
(a light green, dark-gray or some variant brown, maybe?)
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Uchronia Barbarorum v1.05 , ahistorical submod for Europa Barbarorum 1.2 WiP
Another Story: The Greek Wars v1.0 , submod for The Greek Wars 1.1 WiP
4th Age +1, v1.0 , submod for Fourth Age: Total War 2.6 WiP
I think we could probably account for this using the current system, eg. the Thracians can only recruit their core units in Thrace itself and can only recruit Greek AOR units in any region they conquer, apart from maybe their higher tier units in cities they conquer.
Vice versa, we would prevent Greek factions from recruiting anything other than thracian AOR units in the Thracian regions they conquer (and likewise for Illyrian areas).
I agree that your system would be workable but it might be too much of a departure from the way all the other faction's recruiting systems work at the moment. It would require altering how other factions recruitment work as well in order to bring them all in line so maybe it would be better if we stuck to a conventional system for now and then tried tinkering with it once we have the faction implemented/ make a submod?
The unit list looks good
I think we are better using the regional units as lower tier units available from tier 1 or tier 2 as most of the smaller settlements in the game never seem to grow very fast and so we would never be likely to see higher tier stuff in the game. Also, since some of the regional cities will be rebel at the start of the game it would be nice for them to start with plenty of tribal units in their rosters in order to give them a bit of flavour.Note *: Level 3 Barracks would be "special", as would cost much less and consume only a fair amount of time. Essentially, it would implement the "system" (from an in-game point of view, I'm not quite up to scripting a real system) for a regional governor, making thus possible the recruitment of Thracian Tribal Chiefs.
The Level 4 instead is the passage to a centralized state, in contrast to the border-type region of the Level 3.
Furthermore, I don't know if it can be done, but I'd like to make possibile for Level 2 barracks to upgrade directly to level 4 (only in Thrace), while outside Thrace the Barracks would stop at level 3. I need to make a couple of experiment, but that would be cool.
Note **: I already got permission for using some units from EB1 rosters, if we are in a pinch we can use them. As said above, I would like to use Triballi, Gallo-Thracians, Agranians and maybe something else, as the "local" tribes that joins hands under the strongest tribe and merrily go south ravaging the "weak" greek cities. As note, the heavy hoplite-like unit could be the Makedonian regional unit. As such the "level 4" would effectively become the level exploiting regional talents.
Tribal chief units would be an exception though and we could certainly make them tier 3. Another use of the tribal chief units would be to make them the default general's units for their respective tribe's rebel army.
I think there is a wider problem with the mod in it's current state that population growth is too low to allow cities to be upgraded. I think it would be nice to make some of the capitals bigger from the start (either through raising starting populations or city levels) so that we actually see higher tier units spawning in the campaign. One thing I did want to try in particular was reducing the recruitment time for hoplites to 1 turn as at the moment the campaign just gets swamped with militia hoplites....
As for the EB1 units, the one thing I can't do is make new models but I should be ok with skinning for the models I have available from the current mod/vanilla/XGM (which is what this mod was originally based on). If I need a specific model I might take a look at the EB units, but I think it's best to avoid using their skins if possible as this mod is stylistically quite different from EB.
As for Sarrissophoroi, my idea was to make them essentially the same as the athanamian cavalry unit that Epirus currently has, which are tier 1.
Odryssian General's bodyguard should be cavalry, maybe with Javelins that they throw before charging?
And I think purple would work but I will try light brown as well. I'm guessing they will be barbarian culture?
Yup, the AoR have been already heavily implemented in the 1.0 of the mod (like, the Epirotes can't recruite Athamanians or Molossians outside Epiros, or Thessalian can't recruit their core units outside Thessalia), and I'd like to continue on the same style. So I think all the unit signed as "Thracian" in the list should be recruitables only in the Thracian or at best near-Thracian regions.
The only exceptions, the Tribal Chiefs (recrutable generals)
That should be no problem, as the EDB is only of 41/43 building-trees (as a note, there are a lot of unused building-trees, like the temples). As the maximum number in the RTW engine is 64 (63 if you want to play safe), we can devote 3 entries for the Barracks/Stables/MissileCamp of the Thracian, without modifies on the hellenic barracks (in this way, the hellenics can't recruit from the newly conquered Thracian cities and viceversa)
As a note, we could even make the Tribal chief recruitable in his own building (an "Odrysian Colony", or sort of)
Roger.
How about this plan?
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
for the population growth, I think it can be resolved, either with building bonus or traits for named characters.
For the hoplites/militia hoplites, I think the problem is that the hoplites far too strong for the militia, therefore the 2 turns limit stop the spam of high-level troops. Or, we can reduce the time-limit, but increase the recruitment cost,
Ok, that's a fair point. By the way, I think the permission extends even to the EB descriptions of the units, so we can use those (less research work for us, as at the moment we are lacking an historian)
(as a note, I needed a barbarian official, thus I used the one of the EB Rhomphaiaphoroi, so in future we should change that too)
Ok, so the Thracian Light Cavarly would be skirmisher light-cavarly with javelin&swords, while the Sarrissophoroi would be non-skirmisher light-cavarly with a long spear(&swords/knives/whatever), right?
I don't know what kind of relations Thracians had with cavarly at the time.
As a personal preference, while I think that a cavarly general is much more powerful, an Infantry General is much more resilient (of course, it also mean that an infantry general can't really run away if things go wrong).
Uhm, after checking it, brown are Arcadians, while sand (light-brown) are Elisians, and three green factions are already in place...
then, I concur on the purple (not the one already used in sycion) or can I suggest
-a dark gray? much similar to the Indipendents but darker?
-light-red?
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Uchronia Barbarorum v1.05 , ahistorical submod for Europa Barbarorum 1.2 WiP
Another Story: The Greek Wars v1.0 , submod for The Greek Wars 1.1 WiP
4th Age +1, v1.0 , submod for Fourth Age: Total War 2.6 WiP
I'm pretty certain most Thracian nobles would have fought on horseback by then, but I'm not too fussed either way and I agree with you that infantry generals are more resilient.
And I'm not sure grey would be a good idea as it won't show up too well on the minimap next to all of the nonaligned settlements up in the north of the map. I'll try purple out and see if that works.
I'll let you srt out implementing the units into the campaign, I'll just put the unit files together and get them working in custom battles.
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Uchronia Barbarorum v1.05 , ahistorical submod for Europa Barbarorum 1.2 WiP
Another Story: The Greek Wars v1.0 , submod for The Greek Wars 1.1 WiP
4th Age +1, v1.0 , submod for Fourth Age: Total War 2.6 WiP
Cool. We also need to decide on a faction symbol- I'll design it if we get an image to base it on.
Also, having looked at the factions already in the mod I think I'm going to go for a flame red colour for the Odrysians- similar to that on the stand-in general model that you used from EB. If that doesn't work I'll try purple.
excellent...
what about the symbol of Dacia from Rome Vanilla?
maybe modified with a light brown background?
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Uchronia Barbarorum v1.05 , ahistorical submod for Europa Barbarorum 1.2 WiP
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4th Age +1, v1.0 , submod for Fourth Age: Total War 2.6 WiP
really cool the infantry, but maybe the cavarly's saddle is too much... purple?
I don't know if can be edited, but maybe a dark green would be better?
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Uchronia Barbarorum v1.05 , ahistorical submod for Europa Barbarorum 1.2 WiP
Another Story: The Greek Wars v1.0 , submod for The Greek Wars 1.1 WiP
4th Age +1, v1.0 , submod for Fourth Age: Total War 2.6 WiP
in the while I'm testing an improved population growth (it's maxed with lesser settlements and wane when the settlement is upgraded), at the moment it's rather "simple" to let the towns grows to tier-3 level. The problem is that the AI si more prone in using the improved population for swarming me XD
I'm also thinking of reducing the requirements for Allied Hoplites (namely, let them be available even in level 3 barracks for lesser cities)
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Uchronia Barbarorum v1.05 , ahistorical submod for Europa Barbarorum 1.2 WiP
Another Story: The Greek Wars v1.0 , submod for The Greek Wars 1.1 WiP
4th Age +1, v1.0 , submod for Fourth Age: Total War 2.6 WiP
Hi first off I would just like to say its great to see some people still modding Rome TW as its quite an old game.
When you have completed the sub mod I would like to add it to the downloads on this page
http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-greek-wars-tgw
I'm quite busy at the moment but if there's anything I can do to help I will.
As a note, I'm planning to add a modified version of Spoil of Victory (a submod for Europa Barbarorum), it was really complicated so I had to oversimplify all the triggers; oh, and I'm toying with the trait system... no more Spartan Aedilles, Athenian Censors and Theban Consuls.
And probably minor cities who boasts their own local hoplites (Mantinea, Tegea, Delphoi, Olimpya, maybe even the Chalcidian and Boeotian cities) will probably be upgraded to a level up, so it will be more simple - even for the AI - to recruit those hoplites.
In exchange, those cities will lose the normal "Allied Hoplites".
Thank you!
I'll send you a PM when the last version is out
Last edited by Ryoga84; May 12, 2015 at 03:39 PM.
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Uchronia Barbarorum v1.05 , ahistorical submod for Europa Barbarorum 1.2 WiP
Another Story: The Greek Wars v1.0 , submod for The Greek Wars 1.1 WiP
4th Age +1, v1.0 , submod for Fourth Age: Total War 2.6 WiP
Hi, sorry I have been quiet, I've had my university exams but they are over now so I am free to carry on modding for a while.
I think that all the ideas you have suggested are really good by the way.
I'm going to stick with the colours for the Thracians that I have already posted unless you have a massive objection. I'm happy with the combination of colours and think it is different enough from the other factions already in the game. As for the saddle the reason it is purple is that it was the colour of the old Parthian horses the faction tag is based on. Don't worry, I will change the saddle colours!
ok, I'm fine with all
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Uchronia Barbarorum v1.05 , ahistorical submod for Europa Barbarorum 1.2 WiP
Another Story: The Greek Wars v1.0 , submod for The Greek Wars 1.1 WiP
4th Age +1, v1.0 , submod for Fourth Age: Total War 2.6 WiP
I contacted an historic researcher, here on TWC, I think he can help us on a couple problems
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Uchronia Barbarorum v1.05 , ahistorical submod for Europa Barbarorum 1.2 WiP
Another Story: The Greek Wars v1.0 , submod for The Greek Wars 1.1 WiP
4th Age +1, v1.0 , submod for Fourth Age: Total War 2.6 WiP
Hey dude, how is the mod going ? Do you need any help with research ?