[SUBMOD DEVELOPMENT] Another (Hi)Story: The Greek Wars

**Ryoga84** · February 07, 2015, 05:15 AM

Thank you

(at the moment we're in a kind of a swamp, as the other 2 members haven't log in for a while, but in some way we will do

)

**cpdwane** · March 26, 2015, 07:40 AM

HI, I'm back now. Been really busy lately.

**Ryoga84** · March 26, 2015, 08:18 AM

good to see you again

I was biding my time with other mods and submods, but if you are back we are again on the road

then, what do you think of the 3 propositions?
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post14301350

As I see good points in each of them, I was thinking of mediating between the 3

**cpdwane** · April 02, 2015, 08:28 AM

I agree that we should mediate between the three ideas. I think the Thracian infantry needs to be heavily based around javelin armed troops in order to take account of the fact that they basically invented the peltast! Also, it will make them nice and distinct from the factions already in the mod.

Also, presumably, unlike the other factions they won't be based around a single capital and so will have several largeish settlements where recruitment of decent units is possible?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

If you have implemented the faction already, could you send me your edited files and then I can just add the units directly to that? There are a few other adjustments I would like to try to the way units are recruited that I am also considering making at the same time, I'll let you know as I try them out. Also, what colour are we using for the Odryssians?

**Ryoga84** · April 03, 2015, 10:28 AM

-As for the barracks system, I got an idea.
The Thracians are "barbarians" (hellenic Point of View), as such their economy isn's developed as the proper greeks or northern kingdoms ones.
So, I'd like to let them build their own barracks/stables/missile camps, costly and at a slower pace. It means that they will use much less money, but the costruction times will be increased.
For example:
Greek Muster Field: 3 seasons, 600 money
Thracian Muster Field: 4 seasons, 350 money (~ +25% time, ~ -40% cost)

-As for the faction roster, I'd like to do it like this (I had a previous version, but modified it after your proposition)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Barracks
Lv.1: Javelinmen (every faction has them as a basic inf unit), Thracian Peltasts (standard Thracian peltast model, higher cost than basic javelin), Thracian Light Spearmen, (with a big oval shield), Greek Militia [Greece], llyrian militia [Illyria]
Lv.2: As above + Thracian Heavy Peltasts (based on the mercenary heavy peltast model), Thracian Light or Medium Infantry (swords/Rhophaia bearer), Illyrian Infantry [Illyria]
Lv.3*: As Above + Thracian Tribal Chief (Recruitable General with Rhomphaiaphoroi), Elite Thracian Infantry (Choson Rhomphaia?), a heavy hoplite style unit (maybe inspired on makedonian royal hypaspists?)
Lv.4: As Level 2 + Elite Thracian Infantry, heavy hoplite-style unit, local heavy barbarian infantry**

Note *: Level 3 Barracks would be "special", as would cost much less and consume only a fair amount of time. Essentially, it would implement the "system" (from an in-game point of view, I'm not quite up to scripting a real system) for a regional governor, making thus possible the recruitment of Thracian Tribal Chiefs.
The Level 4 instead is the passage to a centralized state, in contrast to the border-type region of the Level 3.
Furthermore, I don't know if it can be done, but I'd like to make possibile for Level 2 barracks to upgrade directly to level 4 (only in Thrace), while outside Thrace the Barracks would stop at level 3. I need to make a couple of experiment, but that would be cool.
Note **: I already got permission for using some units from EB1 rosters, if we are in a pinch we can use them. As said above, I would like to use Triballi, Gallo-Thracians, Agranians and maybe something else, as the "local" tribes that joins hands under the strongest tribe and merrily go south ravaging the "weak" greek cities. As note, the heavy hoplite-like unit could be the Makedonian regional unit. As such the "level 4" would effectively become the level exploiting regional talents.

Stables
Lv.1. Light Thracian cavalry, Thracian Sarrissophoroi***, Light Greek Cavalry [Greece] and Light Illyrian Cavalry [Illyria]
Lv.2. As above + Thracian Medium cavalry, Thessalian Medium Cavalry [Thessalia]
Lv.3: As above + Thracian Heavy/Royal/Noble/Companion cavalry

Note ***: I'm uncertain as I don't really get the streght of the unit, but maybe we can put the Sarrissophoroi in the 2nd tier?

Skirmishers:
Lv.1: Slingers, Thracian Hunters (basic archers, only Thrace)
Lv.2: As above + normal Archers [everywhere but Peloponnese]
Lv.3. As above + picked Thracian Archers (only Thrace, semi-elite archers, high mimetic capacity)

any opinion?
(especially for the Infantry Barracks thing).

-For the state-of-the game, I'll make an archive and link it. At the moment, the Thracians are only implemented (which means, you can start a campaign or make a custom battle using them) but they lack all but the basic units (only Thracian Mercenaries and Greek Militia), which means we should also decide on a general unit (I suppose the only two options are Rhomphaiaphoroi or some heavy cavarly).
At the moment, the Odrysian are using the vanilla color and symbol of Parthia (which means violet), but I hope there's a better option out there

(a light green, dark-gray or some variant brown, maybe?)

**cpdwane** · April 03, 2015, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Ryoga84

-As for the barracks system, I got an idea.
The Thracians are "barbarians" (hellenic Point of View), as such their economy isn's developed as the proper greeks or northern kingdoms ones.
So, I'd like to let them build their own barracks/stables/missile camps, costly and at a slower pace. It means that they will use much less money, but the costruction times will be increased.
For example:
Greek Muster Field: 3 seasons, 600 money
Thracian Muster Field: 4 seasons, 350 money (~ +25% time, ~ -40% cost)

I think we could probably account for this using the current system, eg. the Thracians can only recruit their core units in Thrace itself and can only recruit Greek AOR units in any region they conquer, apart from maybe their higher tier units in cities they conquer.

Vice versa, we would prevent Greek factions from recruiting anything other than thracian AOR units in the Thracian regions they conquer (and likewise for Illyrian areas).

I agree that your system would be workable but it might be too much of a departure from the way all the other faction's recruiting systems work at the moment. It would require altering how other factions recruitment work as well in order to bring them all in line so maybe it would be better if we stuck to a conventional system for now and then tried tinkering with it once we have the faction implemented/ make a submod?

The unit list looks good

Note *: Level 3 Barracks would be "special", as would cost much less and consume only a fair amount of time. Essentially, it would implement the "system" (from an in-game point of view, I'm not quite up to scripting a real system) for a regional governor, making thus possible the recruitment of Thracian Tribal Chiefs.
The Level 4 instead is the passage to a centralized state, in contrast to the border-type region of the Level 3.
Furthermore, I don't know if it can be done, but I'd like to make possibile for Level 2 barracks to upgrade directly to level 4 (only in Thrace), while outside Thrace the Barracks would stop at level 3. I need to make a couple of experiment, but that would be cool.
Note **: I already got permission for using some units from EB1 rosters, if we are in a pinch we can use them. As said above, I would like to use Triballi, Gallo-Thracians, Agranians and maybe something else, as the "local" tribes that joins hands under the strongest tribe and merrily go south ravaging the "weak" greek cities. As note, the heavy hoplite-like unit could be the Makedonian regional unit. As such the "level 4" would effectively become the level exploiting regional talents.

I think we are better using the regional units as lower tier units available from tier 1 or tier 2 as most of the smaller settlements in the game never seem to grow very fast and so we would never be likely to see higher tier stuff in the game. Also, since some of the regional cities will be rebel at the start of the game it would be nice for them to start with plenty of tribal units in their rosters in order to give them a bit of flavour.

Tribal chief units would be an exception though and we could certainly make them tier 3. Another use of the tribal chief units would be to make them the default general's units for their respective tribe's rebel army.

I think there is a wider problem with the mod in it's current state that population growth is too low to allow cities to be upgraded. I think it would be nice to make some of the capitals bigger from the start (either through raising starting populations or city levels) so that we actually see higher tier units spawning in the campaign. One thing I did want to try in particular was reducing the recruitment time for hoplites to 1 turn as at the moment the campaign just gets swamped with militia hoplites....

As for the EB1 units, the one thing I can't do is make new models but I should be ok with skinning for the models I have available from the current mod/vanilla/XGM (which is what this mod was originally based on). If I need a specific model I might take a look at the EB units, but I think it's best to avoid using their skins if possible as this mod is stylistically quite different from EB.

As for Sarrissophoroi, my idea was to make them essentially the same as the athanamian cavalry unit that Epirus currently has, which are tier 1.

Odryssian General's bodyguard should be cavalry, maybe with Javelins that they throw before charging?

And I think purple would work but I will try light brown as well. I'm guessing they will be barbarian culture?

**Ryoga84** · April 04, 2015, 10:10 AM