Master Of Strategy Sengoku (MoSS) (2019/20/03)

[Weierstrass]

I'm searching for job as i finished the uni little time ago. It depends a bit on that. There is still lot of work, but let say i dont get a job soon (really possible), in two month for sure there will be a mostly developed version. If not it could extend up to febraury i think. But that is being a little negative about it, i think it will be less.

[andresimoes]

I'm searching for job as i finished the uni little time ago. It depends a bit on that. There is still lot of work, but let say i dont get a job soon (really possible), in two month for sure there will be a mostly developed version. If not it could extend up to febraury i think. But that is being a little negative about it, i think it will be less.

I hope you find the job. I can wait to February no problem.

[Weierstrass]

I hope you find the job. I can wait to February no problem.

Funny but some friends have been trying for 5 months XD also salary is awfull . Well who knows. Btw i have been checking and mostly possible it will take less time.

[Vrilmachine]

Wondering if anyone know what tables I need to export to adjust the amount of specific units for specific clans? Just figuring out MMS

[Weierstrass]

For specific clans cannot be done that way. It's possible to add effects that aplies only to certain clan.
Btw this version of MoSS is not the from the last build. I'm updating some stuff in steam before uploading the new build here. I should do it soon.

[Kjad3s]

Hello there Weierstrass.
First of all, kudos to you.
After trying vanilla, Darth Mod and Radious I have to say yours is by far the best one I've played. It is, imho, what Shogun 2 should have been in very first place, deep and complex without blatanly cheating to achieve an apparent "difficulty", one of the major issues with latest CA products. I have now been playing MoSS for a couple of campaigns, managed to get the reins of it and love every bit of it.
There are a few things I'd like you to clarify about game mechanics, and I'd like to report a couple of bugs too.

- Loading times: my computer is pretty good (intel i7 cpu, nvidia geforce gx 1060, 8gb RAM), still loading times are pretty long. Any way to shorten them?

- could you please explain the province mechanics? I mean, for example, a province is composed by several settlements, let's say three. If inside the province there's a building providing +1 happiness across the province, does that mean that the other 2 settlements will see happiness increased by 1? am I correct?

- in some settlements, among the causes of unrest there's "non-clan religion", even though the provinces around that province belong to my clan as well. Is it due to the fact that one of the settlements in that province has a buddhist temple that spreads unrest?

- sometimes, in settlements where public order is not under control I can see "character" among the causes. what does it refer to exatcly? I don't think it's because of the Daimyo's honour (level three currently).

- I believe there might be a bug regarding metsukes and their related buildings. I have build around three of these buildings, still, I can only recruit only two metsukes.

- There's a couple of bugs with building construction. Take a look at the screenshots below. Basically: 1- in some provinces, I can only build a couple of tier 1 buildings, the other types do not appear at all, even though I haven't already built them in another slot. 2- graphic bug, I guess. basically, when opening a new empty slot to build in I can see among the options greyed out buildings of different tiers (both low or high tiers) with an astronomic price.


Ok, it's all for now. Keep up the good work.

[Weierstrass]

Hello there Weierstrass.
First of all, kudos to you.
After trying vanilla, Darth Mod and Radious I have to say yours is by far the best one I've played. It is, imho, what Shogun 2 should have been in very first place, deep and complex without blatanly cheating to achieve an apparent "difficulty", one of the major issues with latest CA products. I have now been playing MoSS for a couple of campaigns, managed to get the reins of it and love every bit of it.
There are a few things I'd like you to clarify about game mechanics, and I'd like to report a couple of bugs too.

- Loading times: my computer is pretty good (intel i7 cpu, nvidia geforce gx 1060, 8gb RAM), still loading times are pretty long. Any way to shorten them?

- could you please explain the province mechanics? I mean, for example, a province is composed by several settlements, let's say three. If inside the province there's a building providing +1 happiness across the province, does that mean that the other 2 settlements will see happiness increased by 1? am I correct?

- in some settlements, among the causes of unrest there's "non-clan religion", even though the provinces around that province belong to my clan as well. Is it due to the fact that one of the settlements in that province has a buddhist temple that spreads unrest?

- sometimes, in settlements where public order is not under control I can see "character" among the causes. what does it refer to exatcly? I don't think it's because of the Daimyo's honour (level three currently).

- I believe there might be a bug regarding metsukes and their related buildings. I have build around three of these buildings, still, I can only recruit only two metsukes.

- There's a couple of bugs with building construction. Take a look at the screenshots below. Basically: 1- in some provinces, I can only build a couple of tier 1 buildings, the other types do not appear at all, even though I haven't already built them in another slot. 2- graphic bug, I guess. basically, when opening a new empty slot to build in I can see among the options greyed out buildings of different tiers (both low or high tiers) with an astronomic price.


Ok, it's all for now. Keep up the good work.

Hello Hjad3s. Thanks for saying so! It's nice to hear good reviews. About questions:
1) The mod use a really complex system of buildings. To get the FOTS like town system i had to make around 3000 buildings, and that makes the campaign load really slowly. My i5 secound gen laptop takes 2,5 minutes to load, that if it's not alt tabed. Only tip i could give you is to keep the game on top while loading. I tried a lot of things to reduce such loading time, in fact early moss had like 6000 buildings. One way would be to reduce amount of towns levels and start with 2 unlocked slots. That would make like 800 less buildings, but idk, i feel it's okay like it's.
2) Provinces are just like the vanilla game, it only affect that settlement. I never made the provinces division as it takes time and another program to do so. Basically every settlement is like a province.
3) Unrest works as a religion. Yet temples should reduce the unrest, there might be a negative sign issue there. I'll check it.
4) I'll check, not all early buildings gives extra agent cap, even if you can recruit one there.
5) Prices are part of the system, is a way to block the upgrade as it's a consecuence of the game mechanic but not intended for the mod. The way the mod works is really complex but i'll try to give you a brief. Basically every building chain is broken into 3 different building chains. When you destroy them you never go to a free slot, actually you go to a fake slot. All chains can upgrade to lvl one. But chains 2 and 3 can upgrade to lvl 2 or lvl 3 +lvl1. So i blocked such thing with a high penalty. Also i dont want players or AI to be able to build the same building twice in the same province. Trouble is that once you are in a fake free slot you would be able to agrade to an existent chain. Part of the system required that lvl 1 of every chain has to be blocked to 1 per clan. Once you build lvl 2 it's possible to build it again.
Yes the system is insanely complex, and took me a good time to find it out. There might be a chance i forgot an upgrade correlation (right now there are 8300). So i'll check out if one is missing, but the way i made them was kind of fail proof.

[Kjad3s]

Hello Hjad3s. Thanks for saying so! It's nice to hear good reviews. About questions:
1) The mod use a really complex system of buildings. To get the FOTS like town system i had to make around 3000 buildings, and that makes the campaign load really slowly. My i5 secound gen laptop takes 2,5 minutes to load, that if it's not alt tabed. Only tip i could give you is to keep the game on top while loading. I tried a lot of things to reduce such loading time, in fact early moss had like 6000 buildings. One way would be to reduce amount of towns levels and start with 2 unlocked slots. That would make like 800 less buildings, but idk, i feel it's okay like it's.
2) Provinces are just like the vanilla game, it only affect that settlement. I never made the provinces division as it takes time and another program to do so. Basically every settlement is like a province.
3) Unrest works as a religion. Yet temples should reduce the unrest, there might be a negative sign issue there. I'll check it.
4) I'll check, not all early buildings gives extra agent cap, even if you can recruit one there.
5) Prices are part of the system, is a way to block the upgrade as it's a consecuence of the game mechanic but not intended for the mod. The way the mod works is really complex but i'll try to give you a brief. Basically every building chain is broken into 3 different building chains. When you destroy them you never go to a free slot, actually you go to a fake slot. All chains can upgrade to lvl one. But chains 2 and 3 can upgrade to lvl 2 or lvl 3 +lvl1. So i blocked such thing with a high penalty. Also i dont want players or AI to be able to build the same building twice in the same province. Trouble is that once you are in a fake free slot you would be able to agrade to an existent chain. Part of the system required that lvl 1 of every chain has to be blocked to 1 per clan. Once you build lvl 2 it's possible to build it again.
Yes the system is insanely complex, and took me a good time to find it out. There might be a chance i forgot an upgrade correlation (right now there are 8300). So i'll check out if one is missing, but the way i made them was kind of fail proof.

My pleasure, you really deserve it.
To reply to your replies...

1- Ok, I imagined a huge overhaul like this couldn't be but slow. No problem, I'll let it take its sweet time, totaly worth it
2- Mmm ok, understood. Too bad though, I'm no modder nor expert of any sort, still I can see why a mechanics like that might be a pain in the *** to set up. Maybe it's an idea for future improvements?
3- What I meant is, temples apparently both spread unrest AND happiness (at least according the tooltip). Could it be that the cause of unrest? That "non-clan religion" thingy?
4- Ok, thx
5- Woah, you gave me a headache there thx for the explanation though, interesting and...well...exhaustive

One more little thing, I got kinda lost among all the possible building chains...what is exactly the most basic building to recruit a ninja, and what chain does it belong to?

Thanks again, is there a way to support your work btw?

[Weierstrass]

2) Yeah it would be a little hard. It could be and event that triggers every idk 10 turns? that if you have all the settelments in a province you get a bonus. For like 70 provinces is a little to much.
3) It spreed a bit of unrest doe overcrowding, that it's there just to compensate the town effect. The idea is to have the same town level that the amount of slots. If you dont you get a negative or possitive balance. Over that temples should have a positive value extra.

Ninjas if i'm not mistaken could be hired in the lvl 4 or 5 of the bath chain, the brothel line. But the best way to get one is in a ninja province. I still need to balance agents.

Well to be honest i do this just as a hobby. Modders around skins would be helpfull and sometimes around research. Not like if i need it but i would acept gifts to steam or paypal.

[Kjad3s]

2) Yeah it would be a little hard. It could be and event that triggers every idk 10 turns? that if you have all the settelments in a province you get a bonus. For like 70 provinces is a little to much.

Yeah, that could work too.

3) It spreed a bit of unrest doe overcrowding, that it's there just to compensate the town effect. The idea is to have the same town level that the amount of slots. If you dont you get a negative or possitive balance. Over that temples should have a positive value extra.

Got it.

Ninjas if i'm not mistaken could be hired in the lvl 4 or 5 of the bath chain, the brothel line. But the best way to get one is in a ninja province. I still need to balance agents.

Ok, thx. Why though, do you think agents turn out being a bit too OP in the end? I mean...geishas seem indeed to be unstoppable killing machines at highest levels...
Btw, talking about geishas...do you think it would be doable to have them capable of doing something apart than just assassins?
I briefly played a RotS campaign and I saw geishas can also inspire towns or armies...I know it's a redundant effect, since we already have monks and whatnots, still imo it might be nice...

Well to be honest i do this just as a hobby. Modders around skins would be helpfull and sometimes around research. Not like if i need it but i would acept gifts to steam or paypal.

Unfortunately I'm no modder, nor I know any modder...still, I'll try to add you on steam, if you're ok with that.


Btw, last couple of questions, I swear...

-I can see in one of my provinces I can recruit/buy cannons, whereas I can't in other provinces...is it linked to a specific building? 'Cause from the buildings I have in that settlement I can't really tell, they all seem to be non-related...
- is there a difficulty level you'd suggest to play your mode? meaning, if AI is generally improved, then you got an all around higher difficulty...so, for example, vanilla's VH could correspond to MoSS N or H difficulty...is that so?

[Vrilmachine]

Thanks for the reply Weier! Can you think of a way I can get say Shimazu to be able to recruit more gunpowder units? I want to do some RP playtroughs adjusting specific units like a heavy ninja tokugowa build etc.

[Vagabond]

Decided to go back to S2 and found this, just ...incredible and unbelievable works you've done. What surprised me more is you're STILL doing this now

+ rep

[Weierstrass]

Kjad3s yeah add me here http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198111308099/ . Having people in steam allow me to get faster feedback so it would be handy. About geishas, i tried all to make them like fots geishas but it's not possible. And yes next big update need to revamp agents. But with some real life stuff i'm kind of out of energy to do so yet. I'll try to do a bit of it in the following days.
Cannon wise, check the ports.
Vrilmachine hmm well shimazu get the unique gunner, just increase the maximun unit count for it. You could do the same for the retainer gunner.
Vagabond thanks for the rep!!! Yeah i wonder to why i'm still doing this too XD.

[Kjad3s]

Duly noted I'll definitely add you on steam, and good luck with your RL stuff.

Edit: I was following this playthrough, couldn't help but notice the differences and wondered, is the MoSS version this guy's playing and older or newer version of the mod?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrkZ...w&pbjreload=10

[Havie]

This is pretty impressive stuff ,
Who did the custom battlefields/castles?

[Weierstrass]

This is pretty impressive stuff ,
Who did the custom battlefields/castles?

I made like 90% of the mod XD including castles.

[Hazbones]

Been playing this mod the past few days and first off I wanted to congrat you on a very good job you've done. The only complaint I have really isn't the mod itself but the lack of documented support. I love all the buildings but you get quite dizzy trying to understand the building chains. Simple questions like, "how do I get this resource or that unit" is very painful not having a guide or diagram that shows what builds what?

Would it be possible to get a diagram or spreadsheet of all the building and unit chains and how that relate? That would solve the only issue I have anyway.

Great work!

[Kjad3s]

I'm having a bit of a hard time dealing with agents, I think there might be some lack of balance somehow, but I might be missing something here.
My problems are:
- 1 star geishas CHAINKILLING 4-5 stars priests or even a 6 stars daimyo, while my 1 star geishas couldn't even kill a background process on their mobile phones. Kinda absurd, I think.
- Full fledged 7 stars ninjas (assassin spec) having not really good chances to murder even low level geishas or priests (63-69%)
- 7 stars saboteur ninjas having 65ish % when sabotaging even simplest buildings

Anyone else experiencing same thing?

[Kruik]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...A9I/edit#gid=0

It's in the first post.

[Kjad3s]

So, after playing quite some time with Date here's my thoughts about what could be fixed/improved in this already great mod.

- Agents. That's, imho, the side that needs reworking more than any other:

• Geishas: I am quite certain there's a bug involved in this, but basically 1-star enemy geishas manage to chain kill anything that moves. They killed 7 star daimyos, 6-star metzukes and ninjas...and I'm purely talking about 1-star geishas. I'll give you a concrete example: I trained one geisha and I managed to not get her killed for two rounds. I move her in enemy territory, find an enemy army full stack led by their 6-star Daimyo. I click on it. Apparently, I have 95% chance to kill him . I give it a try (dunno how, manage to miss him, don't ask me how). The geisha levels up anyway, 2 starred now. Next turn, click on the Daimyo, the chance has dropped to 20%.
  In the meantime, I managed to level up another geisha up to 5 stars. I click on a 2-star enemy monk, 23% to kill him . There's something definitely fishy here. And all the while enemy geishas swarm in my territory, slaughtering high level monks, metzukes, generals and so on...
• Ninjas: defintely could use a revamp. High level ninjas (saboteur spec) manage at best to have 65% chances to sabotage an army, 70% with important enemy buildings (not just crappy farms). Assassin ninjas are almost useless, never seen mine (6 stars, full assassin spec) have a chance greater than 69%, and I'm talkin about any kind of targets, from agents to generals to daimyos, any level.
• Monks and Metsukes I find them quite ok. Monks with inciting unrest focus might use a buff, maybe, as even the highest level monk can't get a chance to start a riot greater than 50% in empty settlements, but maybe I'm missing some mechanic thing here.

- Diplomacy: territorial expansion diplo malus maybe could be capped at 80/90 with friendly clans/allies maybe? After the realm divide kicked in, I was virtually forced to stop my advance as the expansion malus skyrocketed to more than 110 with all my allies. Or maybe the malus could improve faster, like, +5 by turn...just wondering.
- Advanced Battle Tactics. I researched this tech in order to have all my generals be able to perform night attacks without spending three points in the skill slot. Didn't work, no general could use night attacks after researching the tech unless I unlocked it through skills.
-Generals: other bug, I suppose. I research the tech that allows me to directly recruit generals, but when I go to the recruitment panel the unit card is greyed out, the tooltip saying "You already have the maximum amount of generals you can recruit". I haven't even recruited a single one.
- Settlements: built last tier city, have now 4 slots to fill up. I build Ashigaru Post, Market, Armour smither in the first three slots. I wanna build a temple in the fourth. Absolutely no way. No matter how many turns I wait, the simple shrine simply does not appear among the possible buildings to build. And no, clearly I haven't already built it in another slot of the same settlement. I try destroying one temple in another settlement, thinking the whole thing might be due to a cap in number of buildings of a certain type you can have throughout all your territories. Nothing, still no shrine.
- Naval battles: this is just something I noticed. Except for the Mori clan (which, if I remeber correctly, has among its perks a bonus to naval warfare), no other clan seems to build up a decent fleet, no matter how big they get and no matter who they go to war with. Clan Ito was trying to invade me by sea sending by 3-4 isolated one-crappy-ship fleets, loading full stack armies in those single ships and leaving them completely unprotected. Useless to say, they're fish food now.
- Artillery is sometimes kinda buggy, Mangonels do not fire even if enemy units are in range, they have a clear visual of them and there's nothing to hinder them.
- Agents cap: maybe some cap in number of agents could be increased (4 ninjas max in a domination campaign are a bit too few, imo, while 8 monks are too many )
- A nice implementation could be the possibility to play with different, minor clans. That'd be nice.

That should be all, for now.
Once more cheers to Weierstrass for this gem. Best Shogun 2 overhaul hands down.