700 immigrants drowned in mediterrenean

[Heinz Guderian]

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.


[/I]

you see, this is what happens when you copy and paste from a hate site that caters for people who lack education and cant get past 9/11. Everything i have quoted above isnt true. EVERYTHING is context, introduction, narrative, reasoning, interpretation. This is basic "study". You should have been taught that at school rather than the first year of university. For the same reason i dismiss Jehovah ordering Jews to kill children in the Bible as a direct order, I, as an educated human being, look at context. Its like pulling quotes from any book.

Its really poor study. Please dont do that. It's tiresome.

[Astaroth]

Persecuted asylum seekers and economic migrants looking for better work to improve their lives and to feed their families are now part of an "invasion" to subjugate Europe and exterminate Christianity. Right.

[Garbarsardar]

[I]The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. Exodus chapter 22 verse 20.

And now that we decided that both religious books brim with hatred and intolerance can we go back to the topic? The topic being that you called rafts with starving people an "invasion", a common rhetoric among racists and white supremacists. The proof of your invasion theory is that they have religious motivation, and that their motivation is to spread dead and mayhem. In the same sense, I have to assume that the motivation of any adherent to the other bearded fairy in the sky is to "utterly destroy" everyone.

Which not only brings us at a moronic impasse, it also does not address the issue: apart from old books do you have any other proof for this international conspiracy?

Also, when you copy/paste from the website of the National Front (and such)at least admit so. Not stating your sources is rather unacceptable here.

[Nesimî]

I love the purposeful typos, Moslem. Remember gentlemen, when you are talking about Turks it is Musselman.

Do these refugees always head to the EU? I would have imagined some coming to Turkey.

[Lion_Of_Zion]

Typical muslim ! When people critize islam they always yell but look at jewish books look at jewish books !!!! -_-
Yes the torah and talmud are violant BUT judaism has evolved. We dont promote stoning/killing of gay people etc... Look at the rape rates in europe and check how many are done by jews and then check how many by muslims ! Majority of attacks against jews are done by muslim IMMIGRANTS. I dare anyone to wear a kippah and go in a muslim area in europe !!! Count how many times they do hitler salute/yell heil hitler etc I tried it once in Brussels (belgium) and i fought twice (luckily for me i did my military training + have over 12 years of krav maga/mma experience). The 1st job of a goverment is to protect its citizens and how can you protect them if you have open borders ?

[sumskilz]

Typical muslim ! When people critize islam they always yell but look at jewish books look at jewish books !!!! -_-
Yes the torah and talmud are violant BUT judaism has evolved. We dont promote stoning/killing of gay people etc... Look at the rape rates in europe and check how many are done by jews and then check how many by muslims !

To be fair, he was responding to a similar attack against Islam by a Christian poster and calling it the Old Testament was definitely more a jab at that particular Christian poster than a slight against Jews. Problems with open borders aside, it is realistic to recognize that interpretations of Islam also exist that don't include elements incompatible with contemporary Western values.

[clone]

He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. Exodus chapter 22 verse 20.

And now that we decided that both religious books brim with hatred and intolerance can we go back to the topic? The topic being that you called rafts with starving people an "invasion", a common rhetoric among racists and white supremacists. The proof of your invasion theory is that they have religious motivation, and that their motivation is to spread dead and mayhem. In the same sense, I have to assume that the motivation of any adherent to the other bearded fairy in the sky is to "utterly destroy" everyone.

Which not only brings us at a moronic impasse, it also does not address the issue: apart from old books do you have any other proof for this international conspiracy?

Also, when you copy/paste from the website of the National Front (and such)at least admit so. Not stating your sources is rather unacceptable here.

can you bring a quote from new testament and not from old and more specifically a quote from jesus because he is the central part of christianty .
invasion is not necessarily violent.invasion means many people coming into your doorstep(not necessarily literally) and force you to do things,fight if they are armed or feed them whem you cant.

[sumskilz]

invasion is not necessarily violent.

That's true, but it does have an negative connotation, such as the usage "invasive species" which means a non-native species that alters the environment negatively. I think that's how the previous poster meant it, although jumping from the intended negative connotation to calling it "hate speech" seems to be quite a bit of hyperbole to me.

[Garbarsardar]

can you bring a quote from new testament and not from old and more specifically a quote from jesus because he is the central part of christianty .

Sorry, I was not aware that there is the "word of god" and "word of god reloaded".

That's true, but it does have an negative connotation, such as the usage "invasive species" which means a non-native species that alters the environment negatively. I think that's how the previous poster meant it, although jumping from the intended negative connotation to calling it "hate speech" seems to be quite a bit of hyperbole to me.

Quite. Too bad it was the right kind of hyperbole as was demonstrated one post later by the quoted text from the National Front website. "Invasion" is a white supremacist byword.

[mishkin]

Majority of attacks against jews are done by muslim IMMIGRANTS

Someone could say majority of attacks against muslims are made by jewish inmigrants. But again, this is not a thread about religion, neither about Gaza.

[Kaiser Nonsense]

you see, this is what happens when you copy and paste from a hate site that caters for people who lack education and cant get past 9/11. Everything i have quoted above isnt true. EVERYTHING is context, introduction, narrative, reasoning, interpretation. This is basic "study". You should have been taught that at school rather than the first year of university. For the same reason i dismiss Jehovah ordering Jews to kill children in the Bible as a direct order, I, as an educated human being, look at context. Its like pulling quotes from any book.

Its really poor study. Please dont do that. It's tiresome.

How convenient for you in England.

He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. Exodus chapter 22 verse 20.

And now that we decided that both religious books brim with hatred and intolerance can we go back to the topic? The topic being that you called rafts with starving people an "invasion", a common rhetoric among racists and white supremacists. The proof of your invasion theory is that they have religious motivation, and that their motivation is to spread dead and mayhem. In the same sense, I have to assume that the motivation of any adherent to the other bearded fairy in the sky is to "utterly destroy" everyone.

Which not only brings us at a moronic impasse, it also does not address the issue: apart from old books do you have any other proof for this international conspiracy?

Also, when you copy/paste from the website of the National Front (and such)at least admit so. Not stating your sources is rather unacceptable here.

I have nothing to do with Exodus, speak to the Jews about it. To be Christian it must have both texts, Old and New Testament, and the Old Testament is there as a historical record to provide the means for us to realise how bad it was before the coming of Christ, our King and Saviour.

And yes! It is a conspiracy theory by tinfoil hat wearers. It is not a known fact that every Islamic country in the world lives in a Islamic regime, we must always believe Europe would be an exception to that, otherwise it is a conspiracy!

And you dare say I hide my sources, yet you intentionally wrote "National Front" on one, and hid to other name, as it is not a Nazi site and would not give your point any reason, and yes, for your information it was the other site. I Googled "Quran death to infidels" and that was one of the first page results.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

To be fair, he was responding to a similar attack against Islam by a Christian poster and calling it the Old Testament was definitely more a jab at that particular Christian poster than a slight against Jews. Problems with open borders aside, it is realistic to recognize that interpretations of Islam also exist that don't include elements incompatible with contemporary Western values.

It was no jab, I read what I wrote above.

can you bring a quote from new testament and not from old and more specifically a quote from jesus because he is the central part of christianty .
invasion is not necessarily violent.invasion means many people coming into your doorstep(not necessarily literally) and force you to do things,fight if they are armed or feed them whem you cant.

Exactly this.

Sorry, I was not aware that there is the "word of god" and "word of god reloaded".



Quite. Too bad it was the right kind of hyperbole as was demonstrated one post later by the quoted text from the National Front website. "Invasion" is a white supremacist byword.

STOP YOUR NAZI FALLACY! I utterly despise National Socialism, it was not a conservative political movement, it was not approved by the traditional ways of Europe, Hitler and his party considered themselves to be revolutionaries, the Third Way, neither left nor right. And more importantly than anything else is the fact that the Pope was the first world leader to openly denounce Nazism as wrong, in 1933, and Pope Pius XII defiantly against Mussolini and Hitler managed to save over 800000 lives. And foolish people nowadays claims "he was Hitler's Pope" because "he didn't do enough", hahaahaha, that is a complete joke, and people actually take it seriously, so now when one remains officially neutral, it's because he was favouring one side, and if he acted secretly against such side, it was not enough, surely Pope Pius XII should have sent his Switzers to attack Berlin...

[Admiral Piett]

He didn't call you a Nazi. He said equating the immigrants to the continent to an invasion is a supremacist line. And why do you keep bringing up popes, it's got nothing to do with the discussion.

I think the EU should carefully adopt a more strict quota on immigration to be for skilled workers or people with an education. The current policy is allowing basically anybody in from a developing country that doesn't really have the means to provide well for their families. The poverty they are fleeing from is merely transplanted to the new country and the lack of a path for cultural assimilation on attaining citizenship leads to these people isolating themselves into ghettos. The current policy is only leading to resentment and distrust from both the immigrant communities and the native population. It's for those reasons why the US doesn't really have any issues with the Muslim population here, but we are having fiscal issues from the unregulated Latino immigration.

[Kaiser Nonsense]

He didn't call you a Nazi. He said equating the immigrants to the continent to an invasion is a supremacist line. And why do you keep bringing up popes, it's got nothing to do with the discussion.

I think the EU should carefully adopt a more strict quota on immigration to be for skilled workers or people with an education. The current policy is allowing basically anybody in from a developing country that doesn't really have the means to provide well for their families. The poverty they are fleeing from is merely transplanted to the new country and the lack of a path for cultural assimilation on attaining citizenship leads to these people isolating themselves into ghettos. The current policy is only leading to resentment and distrust from both the immigrant communities and the native population. It's for those reasons why the US doesn't really have any issues with the Muslim population here, but we are having fiscal issues from the unregulated Latino immigration.

I bring up Popes because my life is led by the Church, it is the utmost proof I cannot possibly be a Nazi or even sympathetic to their cause. I do however like their uniforms, but then again, I like almost any military uniform, from mail and surcoats to modern military.

[Heathen Hammer]

Persecuted asylum seekers and economic migrants looking for better work to improve their lives and to feed their families are now part of an "invasion" to subjugate Europe and exterminate Christianity. Right.

Indeed, we should direct all the persecuted asylum seekers directly to live in liberal politician's residences.

[clone]

Sorry, I was not aware that there is the "word of god" and "word of god reloaded".

then you dont know christianity.
the god in judaism who is based only in torah(old testament) is not the same as god in christianity who is based also in jesus but also on later saints

[mishkin]

The current policy is allowing basically anybody in from a developing country that doesn't really have the means to provide well for their families.

This would be great, but sadly it is not at all our current policy. (Half spain would be living in Germany if this was true). (I have exaggerated only a little bit)

The poverty they are fleeing from is merely transplanted to the new country and the lack of a path for cultural assimilation on attaining citizenship leads to these people isolating themselves into ghettos.

Immigration brought wealth to Spain, and to their countries as foreign exchange, during the 90s and 2000 (cheap labor force for construction and orchards), and now we (spain) are ed up they are leaving our country.
I have never seen a ghetto here, (the only ghettos I have seen are gypsies ghettos) though our integration policy sorely lacking imo.

[Admiral Piett]

This would be great, but sadly it is not at all our current policy. (Half spain would be living in Germany if this was true). (I have exaggerated only a little bit)

Immigration brought wealth to Spain, and to their countries as foreign exchange, during the 90s and 2000 (cheap labor force for construction and orchards), and now we (spain) are ed up they are leaving our country.
I have never seen a ghetto here, (the only ghettos I have seen are gypsies ghettos) though our integration policy sorely lacking imo.

That's part of the point. The standards were relaxed for asylum seekers from developing countries. Just addend my "Europe" to be specifically northern Europe.

[Garbarsardar]

A number of off topic posts split here.

He didn't call you a Nazi. He said equating the immigrants to the continent to an invasion is a supremacist line. And why do you keep bringing up popes, it's got nothing to do with the discussion.

I think the EU should carefully adopt a more strict quota on immigration to be for skilled workers or people with an education. The current policy is allowing basically anybody in from a developing country that doesn't really have the means to provide well for their families. The poverty they are fleeing from is merely transplanted to the new country and the lack of a path for cultural assimilation on attaining citizenship leads to these people isolating themselves into ghettos. The current policy is only leading to resentment and distrust from both the immigrant communities and the native population. It's for those reasons why the US doesn't really have any issues with the Muslim population here, but we are having fiscal issues from the unregulated Latino immigration.

I agree and that is the whole point: it is the lack of coherent policy that fails both "natives" and immigrants. Blaming all this on an evil masterplan of X,Y,Z simply detracts from the root cause and provides easy fuel for the neo-nazi bonfires.

[Flinn]

if you don't mind gents, I'll go back on topic

As an Italian, I deem this to be a particularly seriuos problem; I was I think 7 or 8 when, while at holydays in Puglia, we saw hundreds of desperate immigrants arriving on the costs every day. Almost 30 years have passed and nothing has changed.
I believe most part of the people really ignore the range of this issue: 2014 mid year (20 of July) the government reported that more than 67.000 "illegal" immigrants have arrived since the begenning of the year (averagely 335 per day). Total figures over the last 20 years are not confirmed, but we speak about millions (potentially we have 4 to 5 millions italians that are immigrants and immigrants' children, a large part of whom were formerly "illegal" ones). Although Italy is the most affected country, others too have to face similar issues, even if with smaller numbers. We speak about hundreds of thousands per year in the whole south Europe.

Said the above, I've nothing against immigrants myself and I grieve for every single life lost this way (that's the very first part of this problem we should solve), and even if the evidence of the seriousness of the problem is in front of everybody's eyes, many (in particular in those countries not directly affected) prefer to ignore the truth. Over the years I've heard all the silliest and most crule things, very similar to some of the reply I read in this thread, because it is easier to say to others "drawn them before they reach your country, and then my country", than actually trying to look for a solution.
The EU community in particular has taken the Pilato's role for many years, and only recently has started to commit to help the countries that are mostly involved in this. Mind you, this is not a simple matter of money, this is a political issue, that has been ignored almost completely and referred exclusively to a small part of the EU countries; an example, as someone pointed out Berlusconi went for an agreement with Libians to try to regulate immigration, and not an official political representative of the EU. And it is also a social problem, because in lack of clear rules and mostly in lack of common solutions, each country has to deal with it in its own fashion, with the results of deaths at sea, riots in the immigrants centers and spreading criminality that we all see.
I personally defend every man and woman who work in rescuing and patrolling, along with the thousands (many of whom are volunteers) that welcome, cure and feed those immigrants.

As I see it, there are only two things to do, all together as EU community:
First, try to reduce the departures form the northern african countries; in many cases that will mean forcing the local governments to accept the new asset under the blackmail of political and/or economical consequences. I don't like very much this behaviour, but if we are to try to reduce the problem, I don't see any other way to do it.
Second, we need to re-organize completely the way we "manage" the whole matter: from the patrolling, to the welcoming, up to the final "allocation" of these persons into our societies, everything should be regulated via clear and just rules. The goal should be that of saving lifes, protect the local citizens from criminality and diseases (Ebola means something to many I believe) and giving those persons the opportunity to integrate themselves and to become productive, as in this way they will become a resource (for both themselves and the other citizens) and not a problem to deal with or to be put under the carpet.

my two rusty cents

[Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus]

900 people picked up in 24 hours