Sassanids Unit Preview WIP

[Riothamus]

The Crooked Philosopher No troling here. If you want an intellectual debate then post our opinions constructively

[b257]

I adore the roster , though I feel the Armored Horses could use an update.

[midnite]

I adore the roster , though I feel the Armored Horses could use an update.

Yes, they will be fixed also!

[The Crooked Philosopher]

The Crooked Philosopher No troling here. If you want an intellectual debate then post our opinions constructively

Listen to my suggestion before you issue such warning:

My unit roster:

1. Infantry

Nizagan
Samsirdaran (sword auxiliary)
Nizagan-i Zrehbaran (armored spearmen)
Kofyaren-i Daylamig (Daylami Hillmen)
Kofyaren-i Gelanig (Gilani Hillmen)
Laskare Mazunsahr (Omani Marines)

2.Archer

Kamandaran-i Eransahr (Iranian Archer)
Kamandaran-i Shahvar (Royal Archers)

3.Cavalry

Asavaran-i Azadan (Azadan Cavalry)
Asavaran-i Dihqanan (Dihqan Cavalry)
Ustaran-i Arabig (Arab Camelry)
Pilbanan (War Elephant)

4.Guard Cavalry or Elite Cavalry

Pushtigban (Bodyguard)
Zhayedan (Immortals)

5.Siege

Falakan-i Majaniq (Mangonel)

With the roster i suggest, i hope the team may remake the entire unit roster plus creating new units in order to balance the game play.

[Riothamus]

Listen to my suggestion before you issue such warning:

My unit roster:

1. Infantry

Nizagan
Samsirdaran (sword auxiliary)
Nizagan-i Zrehbaran (armored spearmen)
Kofyaren-i Daylamig (Daylami Hillmen)
Kofyaren-i Gelanig (Gilani Hillmen)
Laskare Mazunsahr (Omani Marines)

2.Archer

Kamandaran-i Eransahr (Iranian Archer)
Kamandaran-i Shahvar (Royal Archers)

3.Cavalry

Asavaran-i Azadan (Azadan Cavalry)
Asavaran-i Dihqanan (Dihqan Cavalry)
Ustaran-i Arabig (Arab Camelry)
Pilbanan (War Elephant)

4.Guard Cavalry or Elite Cavalry

Pushtigban (Bodyguard)
Zhayedan (Immortals)

5.Siege

Falakan-i Majaniq (Mangonel)

With the roster i suggest, i hope the team may remake the entire unit roster plus creating new units in order to balance the game play.

Thank You Crooked Philosopher. We are aware of the above roster. The final WIP I can tell you will not go unheeded of your suggestions. There is much for us to do

[Reno Melitensis]

Listen to my suggestion before you issue such warning:

My unit roster:

1. Infantry

Nizagan
Samsirdaran (sword auxiliary)
Nizagan-i Zrehbaran (armored spearmen)
Kofyaren-i Daylamig (Daylami Hillmen)
Kofyaren-i Gelanig (Gilani Hillmen)
Laskare Mazunsahr (Omani Marines)

2.Archer

Kamandaran-i Eransahr (Iranian Archer)
Kamandaran-i Shahvar (Royal Archers)

3.Cavalry

Asavaran-i Azadan (Azadan Cavalry)
Asavaran-i Dihqanan (Dihqan Cavalry)
Ustaran-i Arabig (Arab Camelry)
Pilbanan (War Elephant)

4.Guard Cavalry or Elite Cavalry

Pushtigban (Bodyguard)
Zhayedan (Immortals)

5.Siege

Falakan-i Majaniq (Mangonel)

With the roster i suggest, i hope the team may remake the entire unit roster plus creating new units in order to balance the game play.

Well "The Crooked Philosopher", at least you managed to post a constructive post. I saw your deleted posts, and Rio was wright to do so. You have to respect the modders decision, if you don't like post a constructive criticism not a destructive one as you previously have. And on a second taught no one here asked for your +rep.

Cheers

[The Crooked Philosopher]

You see, i am quite disappointed when the team made this unit showcase. I thought IB 2 team would be a little bit serious when they made Sassanid/Eransahr roster.

In my opinion, Sassanid roster in the current unit showcase didn't have what it takes to be a real Sassanid army, at least for now.

The units (begin with the cavalry, the pride of Eransahr)

1. Cavalry

Cataphract, Cataphract Archer and Clibanarii should be reclassified with social class for example: Vuzurgan (Grandee), Azadan (Freeman) and Dihqanan (Landed gentry or literally village elder) instead of calling them cataphract and clibanarii.

2. Infantry

Infantry name should change entirely in order to reflect Eransahr as a competent adversary of Rome, since infantry are the staple of the Royal army then it should be treated with utmost care when the team made the unit roster. Some of the issue like armament caught my attention as i first visit the forum especially the shield because it doesn't look like a traditional Persian Spara who do not have the ability to protect the infantry and archer from missile fire. Armor wore by the infantry needs teams attention as if some of the infantry's armor was too heavy for them or too expensive in reality.

Second issue is about the infantry: Sassanid desert spearmen should renamed as Nizagan due to the fact that they are not desert nomads and the Sassanid spearmen should merged with Sassanid armored spearmen thus turning them into one unit: Nizagan-i Zrebaran as a means to save unit slot.

Third issue is about the so called Immortals, at first i thought they're some kind of dismounted variant but instead the team turn them into shock infantry, in order to fix the problem it would wise that the team replace it with Gilani or Daylami Hillmen.

Fourth issue is about the archers, the team should be aware that archers are auxiliary not shock troops and it should not have armor but a simple helmet.

3. Guard cavalry

Famous unit like Zhayedan and Pushtigban was absent in the show case, others like Gyan Avspar who have made appearance in previous IB mod could be another option for guard cavalry unit.

[Riothamus]

You see, i am quite disappointed when the team made this unit showcase. I thought IB 2 team would be a little bit serious when they made Sassanid/Eransahr roster.

In my opinion, Sassanid roster in the current unit showcase didn't have what it takes to be a real Sassanid army, at least for now.

The units (begin with the cavalry, the pride of Eransahr)

1. Cavalry

Cataphract, Cataphract Archer and Clibanarii should be reclassified with social class for example: Vuzurgan (Grandee), Azadan (Freeman) and Dihqanan (Landed gentry or literally village elder) instead of calling them cataphract and clibanarii.

2. Infantry

Infantry name should change entirely in order to reflect Eransahr as a competent adversary of Rome, since infantry are the staple of the Royal army then it should be treated with utmost care when the team made the unit roster. Some of the issue like armament caught my attention as i first visit the forum especially the shield because it doesn't look like a traditional Persian Spara who do not have the ability to protect the infantry and archer from missile fire. Armor wore by the infantry needs teams attention as if some of the infantry's armor was too heavy for them or too expensive in reality.

Second issue is about the infantry: Sassanid desert spearmen should renamed as Nizagan due to the fact that they are not desert nomads and the Sassanid spearmen should merged with Sassanid armored spearmen thus turning them into one unit: Nizagan-i Zrebaran as a means to save unit slot.

Third issue is about the so called Immortals, at first i thought they're some kind of dismounted variant but instead the team turn them into shock infantry, in order to fix the problem it would wise that the team replace it with Gilani or Daylami Hillmen.

Fourth issue is about the archers, the team should be aware that archers are auxiliary not shock troops and it should not have armor but a simple helmet.

3. Guard cavalry

Famous unit like Zhayedan and Pushtigban was absent in the show case, others like Gyan Avspar who have made appearance in previous IB mod could be another option for guard cavalry unit.

Its a WIP and far from done. What part do you not understand! We are well aware of your roster. The information you have provided is good and we are receptive to it and much of it we have knowledge of. Its a beginning project Han is working on When it is done it will be front TWC paged as a finished work.. It again concerns me you just don't quite understand this point. Discussion and Constructive suggestions are welcomed as well as your change in tone.

You see, I'm quite disappointed when someone becomes belligerent and arrogant as you did with your now deleted posts when a simple informative post could have been delivered first and not even to mention an apology from you. Stay on topic and choose your words more carefully and do not respond to my reburke because rudeness on the forum is not for discussion The Crooked Philosopher or you will not post here on this forum again

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Just a quick comment:

There were no such thing as "Immortals." That was a Roman concept used to classicize the Sassanid military (In fact the 6th century contained a lot of references to Archaic/Hellenic Greece.) Procopius I believe is the one who begins calling them Immortals. Either way, this unit didn't exist, other than the Roman Athanatoi, but that was a 10th century Tagmatic guard unit.

Catafractus and Clibanarius are purely Roman terms. Those words cannot be applied outside the Roman military. Same concept as "Equites Stablesiani" or "Promoti" etc. in terms of name terminology, basically.

As for the Mangonel, the advent of that didn't come until the mid 6th century. The Sassanids didn't use Torsion engines often because the Iron was expensive.

I have an article on the origin of the Mangonel in the west (Traction Trebuchet) if anyone wants the link. Saved it because it had a suggestion on their possible usage by the Huns, but that's unlikely. Wouldn't be surprised if it was in use by the Hepthaltites though, who would Vassalize the Sassanids in the mid-5th century.

[Riothamus]

Just a quick comment:

There were no such thing as "Immortals." That was a Roman concept used to classicize the Sassanid military (In fact the 6th century contained a lot of references to Archaic/Hellenic Greece.) Procopius I believe is the one who begins calling them Immortals. Either way, this unit didn't exist, other than the Roman Athanatoi, but that was a 10th century Tagmatic guard unit.

Catafractus and Clibanarius are purely Roman terms. Those words cannot be applied outside the Roman military. Same concept as "Equites Stablesiani" or "Promoti" etc. in terms of name terminology, basically.

As for the Mangonel, the advent of that didn't come until the mid 6th century. The Sassanids didn't use Torsion engines often because the Iron was expensive.

I have an article on the origin of the Mangonel in the west (Traction Trebuchet) if anyone wants the link. Saved it because it had a suggestion on their possible usage by the Huns, but that's unlikely. Wouldn't be surprised if it was in use by the Hepthaltites though, who would Vassalize the Sassanids in the mid-5th century.

We thank You Aetius. We are aware of these things from your informative post. Possibly we can use something from it..As for wording the units and descriptions we haven't gotten that far but we do have a roster from the original IBFD and my VGR Mod. We just haven't gotten down to detailing the units with them just yet. More will come soon such as a roaster and descriptions from the units created by Han

[Byzantineboy]

Troops are wonderful!!!

Great work! Keep up!

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Here's that Article:

http://deremilitari.org/2014/06/byza...the-trebuchet/

[Reno Melitensis]

Thanks Magister. But we must remember that the Sassanids where much better than the Arsacids who they reolaced in siege warfare. So I guess that they had knowledge, maybe from Roman captives on how to build and maintain siege weapons. Thanks for the link.


Cheers

[The Crooked Philosopher]

Thanks Magister. But we must remember that the Sassanids where much better than the Arsacids who they replaced in siege warfare. So I guess that they had knowledge, maybe from Roman captives on how to build and maintain siege weapons. Thanks for the link.


Cheers

Sassanid siege technique originated from India and China not Rome but the only thing that makes Sassanid so different is the development of a standing army.

The so called mangonel or Falakan-i Majaniq was something i discover from my research on Islamic invasion of Iraq that there's report that a certain Persian nobleman supply the invading Muslim forces with mangonels in order to capture cities in Iraq.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

They had the knowledge and did use Onagers, we have sources that indicate their use of stone-throwing torsion engines (it's likely the Romans adopted the Onager from the Sassanids). However, the issue was the fact that compared to the Romans, the Sassanids were iron-poor. They likely used captured Roman equipment to make siege engines, as they used most of their iron on weapons and armor.

[stevietheconquer]

very nice units

[Riothamus]

Sassanid siege technique originated from India and China not Rome but the only thing that makes Sassanid so different is the development of a standing army.

The so called mangonel or Falakan-i Majaniq was something i discover from my research on Islamic invasion of Iraq that there's report that a certain Persian nobleman supply the invading Muslim forces with mangonels in order to capture cities in Iraq.

Love this. Do you have the source?

I'm going to post our faction list soon. Many will match up with the the current models and to the new ones Han has created. Han and I are going over unit names and descriptions at the moment. I've added several names you suggested

[The Crooked Philosopher]

Source: Sassanian Armies: The Iranian Empire Early 3rd to Mid-7th Centuries AD by David Nicolle, Iraq after the Muslim Conquest by Michael G. Morony.

There's another list i wish to add:

Saka Cavalry (Asavaran-i Sakasahr)
Lakhmid auxiliary cavalry
Kurdish Hillmen (Kofyaren-i Kordig)

[The Crooked Philosopher]

Ooops, double post.

Please forgive me for double posting.

[Riothamus]

Source: Sassanian Armies: The Iranian Empire Early 3rd to Mid-7th Centuries AD by David Nicolle, Iraq after the Muslim Conquest by Michael G. Morony.

There's another list i wish to add:

Saka Cavalry (Asavaran-i Sakasahr)
Lakhmid auxiliary cavalry
Kurdish Hillmen (Kofyaren-i Kordig)

I have the Kurdish Hillman with javelins. Cant remember if as of yet added Saka cav. yet I don't yet have in Lakhmid auxiliary cavalry(As I remember or if Han already added them)
These we may included later as our roster grows



Kurdish Javelinmen
Kurdish Javelinmen are fleet-footed, tough skirmishers recruited from the harsh hill regions of the Sassanid Empire.\n\nThey are recruited from among the independent Kurds, a people who have a long tradition of irregular warfare, as they do not accept foreign overlords easily. They are best employed to harrass enemies and thin their ranks with missile volleys before the main battle is joined. They are capable of fighting hand-to-hand, but this is not their strength and against anyone other than other skirmishers they will suffer disproportionate casualties.\n\nThey carry little war gear other than their weapons, giving them their speed over rough terrain.

Saka Cavalry
The Saka were an Iranian speaking peoples of Aryan (Indo-Iranian) Stock. They are considered to be a branch of the Scythians by most scholars, and closely related to the Cimmerians. Being Scythians, they are as much a horse people as their neighbors. They are tough, very capable fighters, preferring a mix of kontos and bow like most other steppe peoples.

Lakhmid auxiliary cavalry

Thank You. Please add or point out anything