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Thread: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

  1. #1621
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Cause Salafists are the only people Assad tortures right?
    Wait, you actually agree it is ok to torture Salafists?
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
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    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  2. #1622

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Paying a special extortion tax so that ISIS doesn't murder you = working with ISIS?! A lot of civilians are forced to pay tributes and taxes to the Islamic State. Should we bomb them too?
    Only show that they are just bandits and robbers. They take money and wifes.
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  3. #1623
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Request a new user name View Post
    America is currently detaining 2+ million people in prisons, mostly for non-violent crimes, and is a de-facto police state just a step away from becoming a full fledged fascist state. AMerica has also invaded several countries illegally and has killed far more civilians than Assad.
    It's brainless to think that this somehow makes IS look favorable in comparison. They are the most brutish and primitive barbarians on the planet, no comparison will change that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Request a new user name View Post
    Kurdish forces are a joke. They make a lot of boasts, but the moment ISA punches them, they fold and have to be carried.
    Just to remind you, Germany has agreed to train and arm a force of kurds (at least 100,000) with modern weaponry (g36, mg3, panzerfausts, homing missiles, armored transports).
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  4. #1624

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayer View Post
    It's brainless to think that this somehow makes IS look favorable in comparison. They are the most brutish and primitive barbarians on the planet, no comparison will change that.
    I never said it made them favorable, but by any rational standard the US is far more evil than IS and unlike the US IS doesn't pretend to uphold secularism and democracy, they are very honest people and not corrupt.
    Just to remind you, Germany has agreed to train and arm a force of kurds (at least 100,000) with modern weaponry (g36, mg3, panzerfausts, homing missiles, armored transports).
    So was the ISF, guess what, they fell apart. Giving the Peshmerga weaponry won't change the fact their doctrines are crap, their Officers useless political appointees, and Peshmerga aren't even a unified force with KDP and PUK having separate units that don't coordinate and spend half their time pointing their weapons at each other.

    If those problems aren't fixed, the Peshmerga are going to fall apart. ISF for all its faults has a unified command and the Prime Minister has full power to sack incompetent officers. Barzani can't touch PUK officers, and KDP officers are political allies he has to cultivate to keep his job. So really fixing the Peshmerga means removing Barzani from office but would kick off another PUK/KDP civil war and PJAK will bolt from PUK.

    PKK/YPG are drug addicts. They blew every chance to defeat IS when they had a chance, then once IS removed more pressing threats, they fell apart fast.

    Seriously, Turkmen of Amerli had 600 guys with AK-47s, and nine RPGs operated by a 20 man detachment from Al-Quds and they fought for 80+ days surrounded by ISA and not one ISA soldier entered their town which was the same size as Kobane. YPG had MILANs, 23mm AA guns, 57mm AA guns, Homemade Tanks, 12,000 fighters, received 1,500 PKK reinforcements, 300 FSA fighters, had air support from SAAF and USAF, and now Kobane is overran. and serving ISA as a strategic deception to soak up American bombs.

    Therefore, screw the Kurds, arm the Turkmen, some 3 million of them in Iraq and Syria and let them take the lead. They showed what they can do on defense, let them go on the Offensive. Heck even Turkey will get behind this as they are kinsmen.
    Well look at this here, a brewing free-for-all in Western Horn of Africa. What could possibly go wrong...

  5. #1625
    Mary The Quene's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    SRF and salafists are now infighting in Idlib governate
    Veritas Temporis Filia

  6. #1626
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Julia Domna View Post
    SRF and salafists are now infighting in Idlib governate
    You mean Al-Nusra? They attacked the SRF a day ago. If there was any alliance left between the FSA and Al-Qaeda, its gone now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Request a new user name View Post
    America is currently detaining 2+ million people in prisons, mostly for non-violent crimes, and is a de-facto police state just a step away from becoming a full fledged fascist state. AMerica has also invaded several countries illegally and has killed far more civilians than Assad.
    Is this where you make a bunch of claims and don't back up anything you say?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  7. #1627
    Mary The Quene's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    You mean Al-Nusra? They attacked the SRF a day ago. If there was any alliance left between the FSA and Al-Qaeda, its gone now.
    Exactly. However this means more infighting with rebels and therefore less chance of success against syrian army so it are dark days for the so called revolution..
    Veritas Temporis Filia

  8. #1628

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by white-wolf View Post
    Methinks Erdoğan has serious mental health problems; like saying a lie ("what a shocker for a politician!") and believing it ("this is weird now"). However, on Assad I believe he is right. Being a secular does not give you automatic right to torture and murder and barrel bomb your own citizens.
    Assad is definitely the least of all evils. Countries that back Syrian "opposition" make Syria itself look like a liberal democracy.

  9. #1629
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Julia Domna View Post
    Exactly. However this means more infighting with rebels and therefore less chance of success against syrian army so it are dark days for the so called revolution..
    True but now one of the criticisms the FSA had was that they worked and were allied with Al-Qaeda against Assad. Now thats gone. Now sending the FSA weapons not only helps battle the IS, and Assad, but now Al-Qaeda too some of which are planning attacks against the US.


    http://news.yahoo.com/video/raw-syri...112214673.html

    A video of Syrian rebels crossing into Kobane to battle the IS.
    Last edited by Vanoi; October 29, 2014 at 09:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  10. #1630
    Mary The Quene's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    True but now one of the criticisms the FSA had was that they worked and were allied with Al-Qaeda against Assad. Now thats gone. Now sending the FSA weapons not only helps battle the IS, and Assad, but now Al-Qaeda too some of which are planning attacks against the US.


    http://news.yahoo.com/video/raw-syri...112214673.html

    A video of Syrian rebels corssing into Kobane to battle the IS.
    To be fair i don't think they're in a position to launch offensives against those factions. the FSA has suffered lots of defeats which caused lots of rebels to defect or surrender. The FSA today is not the same FSA from 2012 anymore. Best they can do is holding whatever they have and try to get a truce with syria (it happened before in damascus). I'd wonder what their strength is today compared to 2012.

    And those reinforcements are not going to save Kobane, probably just delay it. Those rebels were only 45 fsa dudes i've heard
    Last edited by Mary The Quene; October 29, 2014 at 09:29 AM.
    Veritas Temporis Filia

  11. #1631

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Request a new user name View Post
    ... and serving ISA as a strategic deception to soak up American bombs. ...
    IS isn't very smart if they consider that idea a strategic deception let alone think it could work...
    "Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
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  12. #1632
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Julia Domna View Post
    To be fair i don't think they're in a position to launch offensives against those factions. the FSA has suffered lots of defeats which caused lots of rebels to defect or surrender. The FSA today is not the same FSA from 2012 anymore. Best they can do is holding whatever they have and try to get a truce with syria (it happened before)
    You seem to forget the 500 million dollars the US pleged to arm and train the FSA, and now Turkey also pledging to train a force of 1,500. Al-nusra isn't exactly in a position to do make offensives actions either. They have takne heavy losses and many defections. They are a shadow of the group they once were.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  13. #1633

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Vanoi are you listening to what the White House and Pentagon have been saying lately? The new American programme won't start having an affect on the Syrian battlefield until late 2015 at the earlier, meaning a more realistic date is mid 2016, and by then there will be no such thing as the FSA. Look at what is happening right now in Aleppo, Idlib, Damascus, and North Hama. The "rebels" are collapsing on every front, just look at the SAA gains in Damascus in the last couple of months. Last year major rebel offensives would last months. This year, the Safira offensive collapsed in 3 days, and the rebel offensive in Idlib before yesterday collapsed in a matter of hours with enormous rebel casualties.

    By the winter of next year there will be only two sides in this war, the Syrian government and ISIS, and Obama will be providing direct support to the Syrian government. Washington is already helping freaking Hezbollah hunt down and exterminate Wahhabis in Lebanon: http://online.wsj.com/articles/u-s-i...nte-1414539659

    Not to mention the fact that the American air force is providing air support to the 104th Republican Guards Brigade in Deir Ezzor and why do you think they invented this fake Khorasan stuff in order to bomb Nusra? To me it's obvious. Obama is bombing Nusra to divide the rebels so Assad can finish them off faster and Obama doesn't have to deal with the "rebel" headache Turkey, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia created for him.
    Last edited by Senex; October 29, 2014 at 10:05 AM.

  14. #1634
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Senex View Post
    Vanoi are you listening to what the White House and Pentagon have been saying lately? The new American programme won't start having an affect on the Syrian battlefield until late 2015 at the earlier, meaning a more realistic date is mid 2016, and by then there will be no such thing as the FSA.
    Where did they say that? Because this source says mid-2015 is when they would reach the battlefield.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ikely-reach-b/

    Others sources put the estimates at 8-12 months. Meaning they would reach Syria mid-2015.

    And what about Turkey's plan to train the rebels?

    Quote Originally Posted by Senex View Post
    Look at what is happening right now in Aleppo, Idlib, Damascus, and North Hama. The "rebels" are collapsing on every front, just look at the SAA gains in Damascus in the last couple of months. Last year major rebel offensives would last months. This year, the Safira offensive collapsed in 3 days, and the rebel offensive in Idlib before yesterday collapsed in a matter of hours with enormous rebel casualties.
    Syrian gains in Damascus mean nothing when the main stronghold of the rebels is in the North. I like how you say the rebels are collapsing on all fronts. Shows how mcuh Syrian proapaganda you really believe. The rebels still control much of Aleppo. The Syrian Army can't advance in the Golan. Its can't dislodge the IS in Deir Ezzor. And you saying the rebels are collapsing?

    And enourmous casualtiies in the Idlib "offensive?" A total of 35 soldiers and rebels died in that "offensive." Funny enough the only peopel reporting massive causltiies is the Syrian state Tv.

    Quote Originally Posted by Senex View Post
    By the winter of next year there will be only two sides in this war, the Syrian government and ISIS, and Obama will be providing direct support to the Syrian government. Washington is already helping freaking Hezbollah hunt down and exterminate Wahhabis in Lebanon: http://online.wsj.com/articles/u-s-i...nte-1414539659

    Not to mention the fact that the American air force is providing air support to the 104th Republican Guards Brigade in Deir Ezzor and why do you think they invented this fake Khorasan stuff in order to bomb Nusra? To me it's obvious. Obama is bombing Nusra to divide the rebels so Assad can finish them off faster and Obama doesn't have to deal with the "rebel" headache Turkey, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia created for him.
    Can you source that claim? And the US isn't helping Hezbollah, but the Lebanese army and is making sure its wepoans don't go to Hezbollah.

    Your tleling me after the US just spent 500 million dollars to arm and train the rebels that its all just a plan to really aid the Syrian government against the ISIS? Are you ing serious?
    Last edited by Vanoi; October 29, 2014 at 11:24 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  15. #1635

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    If they are trained as good as Iraq army it is going to be over quickly
    454-480 Western Roman Politics (Article)
    There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. - W. Shakespeare
    We (...) have converted the miracles of science into a chamber of horrors -R. Hull

    USA knew how to gain a victory, but not how to use it - F.J. Nepos
    You will be ruled by either a crown, a clown, or a crook, and democracy assures that you won't get the first one.



  16. #1636
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by TWmodding View Post
    If they are trained as good as Iraq army it is going to be over quickly
    The Syrian rebels have been given weapons before and proven themselves well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.

  17. #1637
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    SRF and Harakat Hazzm are being butchered by Al-Nusra as we speak. Great news.
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  18. #1638
    Mayer's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Request a new user name View Post
    I never said it made them favorable, but by any rational standard the US is far more evil than IS and unlike the US IS doesn't pretend to uphold secularism and democracy, they are very honest people and not corrupt.
    Hahaha, this is comedy gold. That's it, i can't take you serious anymore
    If we were talking about the real world, i would not think twice if i had to choose between living in the USA or in the territory subjugated by IS scum. I hang on to my head

    and lol about them not being corrupt, are we talking about the same organization which has a leader displaying his $8000 rollex in public and 'soldiers' who fight for nothing more than loot, women to rape and the thrill of violence? And honesty? Weren't they claming that obligatory veil and house arrest would protect women from Assad's troop, but in fact they did so to reduce them to a existence as sex slaves and kitchen servants? Yeah, very moral...


    Quote Originally Posted by Request a new user name View Post
    So was the ISF, guess what, they fell apart. Giving the Peshmerga weaponry won't change the fact their doctrines are crap, their Officers useless political appointees, and Peshmerga aren't even a unified force with KDP and PUK having separate units that don't coordinate and spend half their time pointing their weapons at each other.
    The big difference is that ISF was a army established for a US puppet government which also badly represented the populace (Shia-domination).
    The kurds on the other hand fight on their own with their own motivation on their homeland and for their families, mostly with cheap-ass equipment and outnumbered, against dirty animals who want to massacre the men, enslave the women and kidnap the children to turn them into jihadists. They have a honest and honourable aspiration which i respect and which makes them the perfect soldiers against this islamist filth. That they are currently divided between warrying factions and have organizational problems does not have to be a permanent state of affairs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Request a new user name View Post
    PKK/YPG are drug addicts.
    Last time i checked, the goat loving heroin addicts were fighting on the other side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Request a new user name View Post
    Therefore, screw the Kurds, arm the Turkmen, some 3 million of them in Iraq and Syria and let them take the lead. They showed what they can do on defense, let them go on the Offensive. Heck even Turkey will get behind this as they are kinsmen.
    and let Erdogan recreate the Ottoman Empire... Sry, not going to happen, at least not with EU money.
    HATE SPEECH ISN'T REAL

  19. #1639

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Request a new user name View Post
    America is currently detaining 2+ million people in prisons, mostly for non-violent crimes, and is a de-facto police state just a step away from becoming a full fledged fascist state.
    Err... there definitely are worrying developments in the US, but I believe you're exaggerating a little bit there.


    AMerica has also invaded several countries illegally and has killed far more civilians than Assad.
    Scale. You gotta ask yourself what Assad would do if Syria was equal to America in size and power. Then maybe you'd get a sensible comparison.
    Not that I'm thrilled about the whole removing Assad thing, after all he seems to be the lesser evil compared to al-Nusra or IS, or to the prospect of a Turkish puppet regime.


    Quote Originally Posted by Request a new user name View Post
    I never said it made them favorable, but by any rational standard the US is far more evil than IS and unlike the US IS doesn't pretend to uphold secularism and democracy, they are very honest people and not corrupt.
    Yeah, this doesn't sound crazy at all.


    So was the ISF, guess what, they fell apart. Giving the Peshmerga weaponry won't change the fact their doctrines are crap, their Officers useless political appointees, and Peshmerga aren't even a unified force with KDP and PUK having separate units that don't coordinate and spend half their time pointing their weapons at each other.

    If those problems aren't fixed, the Peshmerga are going to fall apart. ISF for all its faults has a unified command and the Prime Minister has full power to sack incompetent officers. Barzani can't touch PUK officers, and KDP officers are political allies he has to cultivate to keep his job. So really fixing the Peshmerga means removing Barzani from office but would kick off another PUK/KDP civil war and PJAK will bolt from PUK.

    PKK/YPG are drug addicts. They blew every chance to defeat IS when they had a chance, then once IS removed more pressing threats, they fell apart fast.
    While some of this is true, and the other parties could learn something from the Daeeshi when it comes to organization and efficiency, it doesn't change the fact that the PKK and their supporters don't habitually rape and/or murder anyone who doesn't fit their doctrine. Therefore, they are infinitely preferrable to the IS.


    Seriously, Turkmen of Amerli had 600 guys with AK-47s, and nine RPGs operated by a 20 man detachment from Al-Quds and they fought for 80+ days surrounded by ISA and not one ISA soldier entered their town which was the same size as Kobane. YPG had MILANs, 23mm AA guns, 57mm AA guns, Homemade Tanks, 12,000 fighters, received 1,500 PKK reinforcements, 300 FSA fighters, had air support from SAAF and USAF, and now Kobane is overran. and serving ISA as a strategic deception to soak up American bombs.
    And how many IS fighters did attack Amerli, compared to Kobane?

  20. #1640

    Default Re: ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

    I never said it made them favorable, but by any rational standard the US is far more evil than IS and unlike the US IS doesn't pretend to uphold secularism and democracy, they are very honest people and not corrupt.








    I would realy like to know the man behind this quote
    454-480 Western Roman Politics (Article)
    There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. - W. Shakespeare
    We (...) have converted the miracles of science into a chamber of horrors -R. Hull

    USA knew how to gain a victory, but not how to use it - F.J. Nepos
    You will be ruled by either a crown, a clown, or a crook, and democracy assures that you won't get the first one.



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