Swear to God or Leave!!

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

[Caesar Germanico]

The Air Force will now allow airmen to omit ‘so help me God’ from enlistment oaths

back to normal

Excellent.

[gastovski]

I am not okay with this. They should have let him swear at nothing, in case that guy was a drone or robot or else.

[justicar5]

If he don't believe in a god, uttering the sentence "so help me god" wont change that or mean anything to him in any way. I don't see his problem.

Then Chrisitans should have no problem finishing all oaths and prayers with 'anally violate me Shaitan' Doesn't man anything or change as you don't believe in him....

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

Yeah, and you still have to swear fealty to the Queen and her family if you become a citizen of the UK or Canada. Just say the words and let it be over, no need to stir up a mess for no reason.

When I had to say the oath in the Greek army I chose to say the Orthodox one even though there was a non-religious oath as well, simply to avoid any controversy or misunderstandings.

Agree, that guy just make scene , and unnecessary things, especialy since he atheis, just say the word and let its pass

[torongill]

Shouldn't Airmen pray to Gravity and the Gremlins anyway?

[gaunty14]

Then Chrisitans should have no problem finishing all oaths and prayers with 'anally violate me Shaitan' Doesn't man anything or change as you don't believe in him....

Especially as the US State/Government and from that all of its departments is "supposed" to be separated from religion in the first place.

[Condottiere 40K]

Gremlins are a manifestation of Murphy's Law.

[Sphere]

Shouldn't Airmen pray to Gravity and the Gremlins anyway?

More like Bernoulli and Reynolds.

[lawandorder82]

This is the usa you swear to god or your out plain and simple.

[King of the Ring]

that would make the pilots feel divine...like literally

dead people never tell lies

[Condottiere 40K]

They could always swear on the Stars and Stripes, which acts like a holy relic in any event.

[Gerhard von Martimer]

Swearing to always spend $700 billion on defense would be more appropriate

[nce_wht_guy]

Good that this was sorted out. On a side note, when they changed their minds, my commander sent out a mass email telling us that 'so help god' had been removed completely. I'm sure he wan't being at all disingenuous or trying to whip up religious butt-hurt.

[Trot]

I will point out that references to god have been upheld a couple times in SCOTUS. It has always been held as a term of tradition and , god in this case is not actually referring to the christian God but an ambiguous higher power of your choice. This could be anything from the majesty of the universe to almighty Zeus. Weather or not you agree with that is up to you but it has been upheld numerous times.

[Dr Zoidberg]

I will point out that references to god have been upheld a couple times in SCOTUS. It has always been held as a term of tradition and , god in this case is not actually referring to the christian God but an ambiguous higher power of your choice. This could be anything from the majesty of the universe to almighty Zeus. Weather or not you agree with that is up to you but it has been upheld numerous times.

And for those (sane) amongst the armed forces who don't believe in any form of ambiguous higher power? What of them?

[O'Hea]

This is the usa you swear to god or your out plain and simple.

I'm in the Army and I didn't swear to God. Lots of people here didn't. Deal with it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

If the oath required you to swear to a pagan god of revelry, drunkenness, rape, and child molestation, I am fairly certain almost every single Christian would be up in arms about such an oath being mandatory.

For those of us who have read the Bible, many times, and actually absorbed the information and consider it to be the canonical Christian doctrine, and understand the implications of what that means, and what it says about this particular God, have an ethical and moral responsibility to reject such horrendous things, not welcome it as holy, and understand there is only a singular course of action, which is to reject any and all attempts to force us to swear oaths of loyalty or honor to such a being or the concepts it represents.

This is not a weakness of our character, nor does it represent stubborn petulance.

The response of "big deal" and "who cares" would be acceptable if, and only if, that was the reply given to any person who stated that they would wish to omit that portion of the oath. Then, of course, it would not be a big deal, and those taking the oath wouldn't care. Because it would no longer be an issue.

Because it is a big deal to an entire branch of our armed forces, and it is they who care, that is why we are having this discussion in the first place.

That a person is willing to "risk his career" over taking an oath suggests that the person takes the oath extremely seriously and has the kind of integrity one seeks when entrusting them with some of the most advanced weapons known to all mankind, and given the charge of being responsible for the lives of all of us in this nation, and more often than not, those of the rest of the free world, and some who aren't as free. The man who refuses to kneel before unmitigated evil and is willing to risk everything based on that principle, is the man I want defending us against Russia or North Korea or Iran. Or defending the lives of the innocent against any evil empire that rises, because that is the person who will not back down because it is easier or more convenient.

The person who is only there to collect a paycheck is the person I trust to stock shelves at the grocery. That is their level of commitment to this country. They are willing to do a menial task which does not challenge them on any level, intellectual, ethical, or otherwise.

You cannot force someone to have integrity, you cannot force people to care or give a damn. Apathetic people and pathetic people are essentially synonymous, to me.

But those who do have integrity and who do care are much more valuable to our society and we should protect their rights and liberties, and maintain that they have the same rights and liberties as everyone else. And I trust them to protect ours. And because of that, we should change the required oath to allow for such people to join our military.

Meanwhile, you can continue to worship whatever pleases you, and I will stop caring what it is at that point.

[Kaiser Nonsense]

Why does it even matter if he doesn't believe? If he doesn't believe, so be it, say and be done about it! That's what angers me the most in neo-atheists, they aren't simply happy not to believe, they must force that upon others, challenge everything that is traditional and sacred to others. As a friend of mine says to me "I'm atheist, but I don't care for those lunatics who feel the urge to destroy the family Christmas party challenging the 80's years old grandma's faith".

"So help me God" is a phrase said by George Washington, the very first president of the United States, that developed into a tradition, held by everybody since the founding of their republic, why must things be questioned now? Does it really matter if you don't believe in God? It's a tradition for Christ's sake! It's like, also mentioned in this thread, the soldiers of Britain swear an oath to the Queen, everybody knows the UK isn't ruled by the queen and they actually serve the Prime Minister, but it's a tradition, and it must be preserved. Grow up!

[hellheaven1987]

Does it really matter if you don't believe in God?

You know, not everyone is like Russian and British that believe more in hot liquor during combat situation; in fact I don't even think anyone sane enough to charge toward bullet rain at all.