Thougts about Emperor Patch from RTW 2 hater !!!

[fizy45]

My rating to RTW2 = 3/10 (Release and first six months)
My Rating to RTW2 EE= 8/10 (Game after summer patches+ Emperor Edition)

Well some you know me I hate RTW 2 and I never hesitate to tell it.Until now I opened up posts and complain about the state of the game and argued many people.When I accidentally saw the Agustus trailer on youtube I decided to give one last chance to this game and downloaded again.Read if you are also not satisfied from RTW2 so far.

Here is my experience in Rome and Egypt campaigns.I only use graphical mods + no forced march and Less agent mod.Thats it so game is mostly vanilla.

The first thing I notice while playing the transport ship problem is gone,I mean those god dammed transport ships are still there but at least AI doesn’t uses them often and because that no forced march mod is online I don’t use them very often too (transport ships has %30 range).So the biggest problem about the game is gone.Sea’s belong to the navies now and I have made great battle’s against carthage.

The CAI is smart and pushes you when you enter war or when they sense weakness but they also know when to send peace deals so its good.The new building features works fine and public order is a lot easier to control.I can’t comment about politics(senate) I just ignore them.

But the biggest improvement is Battle AI !

I don’t know what they did or how they did but I am absolutely amazed by the battle AI.Its smart I mean really smart and kicks your ass if you make mistakes especialy in sieges.Surely the attacking siege AI needs more work but defending siege AI my god such a pain in the ass.It defends walls better tries to hit you from the back with naval invasions and fights you in streets like hell.BAI really know how to use narrow streets and blocks the movement of your armies when you are trying to take the gates or march on city center.Especially if you attack carthage (city) taking walls doesn’t guarante you victory.I remember beign blocked by cartagian spearmen in 6 different streets.Yeah no matter I do they kept on blocking my way never let me hit them from the back and I fought 43 min long battle and I if didn’t had a navy surely I would be derated against an smaller army.


But game still needs more diplomatic options and improvement of the attacking siege AI and some other stuff.Also agent spam is a mess and I was forced to use mod to stop it.About the new campaign map I have nothing to say cause beta patch don’t add it.Also I had one weird black screen issue which cost me a hour to fix it but lucky its gone for now.

I know there are lots of people around who asks is this game playable.Well my answer is yes with proper mods now this game is playable.I am still angry at CA about releasing a half finished game and making us wait for more than a year but finally I enjoy ROME !

Also one last word to CA you are planning to change the name of the RTW2 to RTW2 Emperor edition on steam,why you do this because you know that game was not finished and RTW 2 ED is a real finished game.

Anyway if you are like me and still want to play rome go for it download it add some mods and game become playable.

[Hoplite of Ilis]

fizy 45, I didn't hate Rome 2, I hate CA , Actually, it's more of distrust . Like I've said before, there are two Rome 2 Eras: B.P. XIV () and A.D. XIV (). I could forgive a lot of things at the beginning, but not the battle/siege AI. It's what strategy games are all about. As of patch XIV the game is very playable for me. I don't much care for the expansions, though I'm happy that should I ever do, the battles will be working PROPERLY! Other than that, the latest patch was quick to come out and the most interesting thing it brought was the change of better buildings to food consumption than raising squalor. Yes, diplomacy needs more options! Nowadays, I only use graphic options and leave the game as it is. If I like it as it is, I will like it modded. What good was DEI or you name it anyway without proper AI??? Personaly, I don't like the idea of the new campaign. I think it will lack diversity. Up, down, left, right, Romans fighting Romans. Big deal!... Anyway, the time is close. Is the game worth it NOW? It is for me.
BUT; In the end, CA failed to deliver the grace of RTW into Rome 2 and that will have them branded like a black sheep in the eyes of a lot of fans. I'd rather wait for a complete game, rather than getting it drop by drop. Since it has come to this... keep on patching .

[Humble Warrior]

The BAI is very good. The defensive siege AI is good, but the attacking siege AI pisses me off because it'll still use torches to sneak through that back Metal Gate after making you fight an authentic siege at the front. I mean, it could use a ram to sneak around or a ladder, but no, it'll pull torches out of its butt instead. Hate it. CA need help.

[Greasy Dave]

The game is better. I agree bai is very good, cai is ok. But the balancing is still poor. I started a vh game and got boredby turn 50,again. Theres no real challenge after you get out of the initial starting pressure. True the cai moves its armies better but it doesnt have enough of them of a high enough quality to offer a challenge. The game is no longer super dull. I can see interesting elements. It just doesnt offer sufficient pressure on a player through well balanced elaboration

[Nigrinus81]

I played the game since release and every patch after that. Never finished a campaign because of the patches, (played with Rome only and never left Italy.

Now with EE coming I uninstalled all the mods (except Kaziels Romans becuase they're awesome) and i'm having a blast. Maybe I try the no forced march mod later on but for now it is quite good.
Land and siege battles alike are great to watch and to play.
One time I assault a city and the defenders (AI) first try to stop me at the walls. But as soon as it realised there were too many ladders and siege towers there they pulled back and reformed near the town centre, blocking all the roads leading to it. It was a glorious slaughter.

I for myself keep the agents as they are, because the AI uses them well and sometimes weaken a Legion before a battle when I'm deep in barbarian territory.

Some more things to optimize are: The AI needs to actively defend or attack on their borders. Mostly they wait inside the settlement. Ai should also use the defending or ambush stance more often (at least german tribes). Speaking of german tribes, what I experienced in almost every campaign is that they get wiped out almost too easily by celtic tribes who are all over the place. So if you have bad luck you end up fighting celts in Gaul, Iberia and Asia (Turkey) which is kind of repetetive.
What I would also love to see is a Autoresolve buff for walled settlements of the major factions. So they dont get overrun so easily.

[Hoplite of Ilis]

The game is better. I agree bai is very good, cai is ok. But the balancing is still poor. I started a vh game and got boredby turn 50,again. Theres no real challenge after you get out of the initial starting pressure. True the cai moves its armies better but it doesnt have enough of them of a high enough quality to offer a challenge. The game is no longer super dull. I can see interesting elements. It just doesnt offer sufficient pressure on a player through well balanced elaboration

It depends on the faction. When I first played Epirus (patch 3 or 4), it was one the most difficult campaigns. Now, with latest patch, I'm over my head in military allies. Everybody's wants to be my ally.

[Butan]

Good to know about the BAI.

I havent been playing vanilla Rome 2 without mods for a good 9 months and I wondered how the base game fared. Its good to hear for those who do not use mods.

[crawe1]

At this rate, I may actually have to try the vanilla game without any mods! Haven't really done that since the days of Medieval 2.

[fizy45]

Good to know about the BAI.

I havent been playing vanilla Rome 2 without mods for a good 9 months and I wondered how the base game fared. Its good to hear for those who do not use mods.

I am sure that there are plenty of good AI mods out there but BAI is really good (hard-very hard) according to my experience.

[PlPs]

@OP your rating to RTW2 is 3/10? For God's sake man! I bet you'd give over 7/10 to Rome 1. lel

Anyway, I love Rome 2 and it's gonna be far better. And Rome 2 is one of the best Total war game EVER.

[fizy45]

@OP your rating to RTW2 is 3/10? For God's sake man! I bet you'd give over 7/10 to Rome 1. lel

Anyway, I love Rome 2 and it's gonna be far better. And Rome 2 is one of the best Total war game EVER.

I played RTW 2 when it was released and tried it again couple months later and yes my score for RTW2 is 3/10 and you know it doesnt even deserve that 3 lets make it 2.5/10 !

But since the game become playable with patches came up in summer when I use proper mods and tweaks then I give EE 8/10.

I know that RTW2 and RTW2 EE are same game's but there is a huge diffrence between vanilla RTW2 and the lastest RTW with EE patch on it.I really begin to enjoy the game now but my thougts about first six months didnt change game was terrible back then.

About Rome 1 its not smart to give rating with todays standarts it was released more than 10 years ago and it was a really great game for its time.

[Humble Warrior]

I played RTW 2 when it was released and tried it again couple months later and yes my score for RTW2 is 3/10 and you know it doesnt even deserve that 3 lets make it 2.5/10 !

Indeed. 3.0 is generous for it on release.

[fizy45]

Indeed. 3.0 is generous for it on release.

Yes thats why I make it 2.5 and I still insists on my thougts game was terrible back then.

Now its good with proper mods and playable,if CA fixes the attacking siege AI adds more diplomatic options and remove's the torches it will be much better.

Personally I didnt had any hope about this game but seeing what they did to the BAI make me think twice.

[samizdat]

@OP your rating to RTW2 is 3/10? For God's sake man! I bet you'd give over 7/10 to Rome 1. lel

Anyway, I love Rome 2 and it's gonna be far better. And Rome 2 is one of the best Total war game EVER.

RTW1 is way overrated; without mods it was pretty stale. Those bright colours, that CAI, the diplomacy. 7/10 is about right.

But I digress, uninstalled after first two weeks of release, reinstalled two days ago. Mein gott, what a change. I could always see the BAI and CAI were better but constantly hampered by something, now that 'something' seems to be gone. I've seen hit and run naval invasions on the CAI just to raze some cities, constant guerilla-esque warfare in Iberia with raiding and city sniping AI. And on the BAI its really amazed me to see the AI avoid the bridge I was camping and use two other crossings. Diplomacy is good, still would like to see some more depth, but overall it seems to be heading towards a really good place.

Now I'm hoping politics and characters get some much needed TLC.

Kudos CA. (though I'm still totally weary of you)

[Garensterz]

Thanks to us god damn haters (but i prefer orthodox critics, wait is that right? nvm) you all got an emperor edition. If not, you all get yourselves a half ass baked game until the end.

[LestaT]

Thanks to us god damn haters (but i prefer orthodox critics, wait is that right? nvm) you all got an emperor edition. If not, you all get yourselves a half ass baked game until the end.

There are haters and there are complainers. Haters will just hate no matter what while complainers complaint things that they didn't like. There are also complainers who for whatever reasons while they complaints seems can't follow the site's TOS which makes their valid complaint overlooked.

In the end it does not matter what you say but how you say.

[Garensterz]

Well I had my reasons to hate, there is a lot though. But You can start off by reading my signatures.

[Greasy Dave]

It depends on the faction. When I first played Epirus (patch 3 or 4), it was one the most difficult campaigns. Now, with latest patch, I'm over my head in military allies. Everybody's wants to be my ally.

Ah. You see, I disagree. I don't think it has anything to do with factions at all. But is everything to do with player tech beelines compared to AI teching and tech rates.

Every faction has an initial steep difficulty curve, no matter where it is or who it's neighbours are. A couple have steeper climbs at the start than others, but overall the diffictuly at the start is the same because the player is fielding the same troop levels as the AI, level 1 or level 2. And the AI can field more of them.

As I said in my post, the opening 30 moves are therefore the most challenging. Doesn't matter where you are or who your neiughbours are. After that, if the player has made the right tech decisions, has managed to carve out 3 or 4 regions for himself, it's all downhill. Granted, before patch 15, the downhill slope was so easy the player didn't' even need to peddle, and post patch 15 the player needs to at least to think about tech and build priorities but so long as he / she gets those right, the game can be won by turn 50.

This isn't any kind of absolute balck and white giude, but I'm just trying to show how easy it is. Turn 25 to 30 is the time it takes for the player to beeline to level 3 infantry and cavalry. The AI doesn't prioritize those and once the player has them, provided he balances his regions correctly to get enough income to field 2 stacks of level 3 then the next 30 turns of conquering (provided he doesn't do anything stupid and start wars on multiple fronts) are easy. From turn 30 to 60, the player can prioritse civil techs that focus on food and economy and teching. Build up the economy of the regions he's conquered and start fielding 3 or 4 full stacks. Then switch back to a push to level 4 infantry and cavalry - hitting them roughly around turn 100 to 120 and then, well, the maps is yours to steamroll.

There is a challenge, a small one, in getting the balance of your buildings right. And getting the diplo balance right, so you're not at war everywhere at once - if you don't do that, well I agree, you're going to have a hard time. But my experience of 2 pushes through to turn 60, is that the diplo game has ways to keep the peace and it isn't any kind of rocket science maintaining peace with everyone bar two or 3 factions (True I've only had time to play Parthia up to turn 70, and the faction on Turkeys Black Sea coast, who's name completely escapes me right now - up to turn 30 - but this kind of AI behaviour was valid for all factions before patch 15 and I don't see any evidence for it having changed ).

Up to turn 25, getting the foothold to expand is challenging -and that's the part of the game I enjoy. At this point of the game, the player has the same level troops as the AI and the Ai often has more of them. So, it's difficult. Once I out tech the AI, it gets dull very fast. Not as fast as pre-patch 15. After all, I'm still playing my current Parthia game at turn 60, but I'm losing interest TBH

The CAI is better, but still does dumb things - run around in forced march allowing itself to be stopped by spies and be wiped out in a single bloody ambush massacre. ANd the AI doesn't field troops higher than level 2 - at least as far as I've played my campaigns. I don't know if that's to do with poor choice in tech priorities or poor recruitment priorities or poor choice in region buildings and a rubbish economy. For whatever reason, even at VH a player can always be a tech ahead of the AI in terms of troops. Battles become certain wins. It doesn't matter if I auto resolve or fight on the battlefield. I've never had the AI outmaneuvre me and bring two stacks to a battle against a single stack. On the other hand ti's not hard to outmaneuvre the AI and do exactly that.

I believe that the elements of a very interesting game are there. But like I said in my previous post. The balancing needs to allow the AI to challenge the player to really have to struggle and explore these different elements.

I admit I haven't played Carthage and have a feeling that Carthage MIGHT offer an exception to the above. It starts in a hostile region with two vassals who don't do it any favours on the diplo front. I would give Carthage a go to but I've gotten so sick about playing test campaigns about the mediterranean over the last 12 months (Rome, Carthage) that I can't be bothered. And besides, the game needs to be challenging whatever region you play, whatever turn you're on.

[SirRobin]

I find it a bit funny when people talk about "how the game is".. after installing a lot of mods!

Mods should be something we use to add something extra to the game, not just to fix banal stuff like forced march, transport navies, etc.. The game should be good and fun right out of the box, then mods should be able take it further in some narrow direction.

Of course it's good that we can even mod stuff like forced march at all. Sometimes I just feel CA gets a free pass on a lot of things because "it can be modded". Then we have to install 5+ mods just to have a decent game, and those mods will often conflict, cause further bugs, and be broken after patches.

TLDR: Modding is fine, but shouldn't be necessary in my opinion, unless you have very special interests.

[Humble Warrior]

There are haters and there are complainers. Haters will just hate no matter what while complainers complaint things that they didn't like. There are also complainers who for whatever reasons while they complaints seems can't follow the site's TOS which makes their valid complaint overlooked.

In the end it does not matter what you say but how you say.

Well that's very nicely categorised. Looks good in theory. However, in practise, it doesn't mean that. Many times people who have constructively complained have been called `Haters` just for daring to say something is wrong. It doesn't matter hownicely or logically put. No distinction has been made by people who like to call `hater` and of course that tiresome saying, `haters gonna hate!` braindead term. You dare point out a problem, any problem and you're a hater- I know, I've had it multiple times when making complaints and I'm not the only one.