Longswordsmen - Who Uses Longswords?

[HykalZ]

Now I'm gonna answer my own question and say that heavily armoured men-at-arms used them. The fact that someone is willing to go into the battlefield without a shield signifies that you're either a noble or high ranking soldier so you're far enough from the chaos or your armor is good enough that a shield in unneeded.

Despite the popularity of the longsword, from what I've gathered, it wasn't as widespread as normal one-handed, maces and warhammers. It seems after the 13th century or so, the longsword was more of a status weapon or fencing weapon instead of a battlefield weapon.

What I would like to know would be the following:
- how practical it actually was
- why it was popular for so long
- which nation/people used it most
- what battles were its use was the most important or significant

Now, discuss!

[kentuckybandit]

German "Dopplesoldner" "double pay" in mercenary companies of the Renaissance period used them to help break through pike formations. This is disputed though, and while I have read plenty of instances of this theory and idea I haven't actually read instances of "The dopplesoldner attacked successfully on the right wing" or what have you.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Now I'm gonna answer my own question and say that heavily armoured men-at-arms used them. The fact that someone is willing to go into the battlefield without a shield signifies that you're either a noble or high ranking soldier so you're far enough from the chaos or your armor is good enough that a shield in unneeded.

Despite the popularity of the longsword, from what I've gathered, it wasn't as widespread as normal one-handed, maces and warhammers. It seems after the 13th century or so, the longsword was more of a status weapon or fencing weapon instead of a battlefield weapon.

What I would like to know would be the following:
- how practical it actually was
- why it was popular for so long
- which nation/people used it most
- what battles were its use was the most important or significant

Now, discuss!

I assume you're talking about hand-and-a-half swords, not arming swords which were the dominant weapon next to the spear in the high medieval era?

[IrishBlood]

I was/am a member of a HEMA club (Historical European Martial Arts) and the weapon we train most with is the German longsword/hand and a half sword.

It was mainly a mercenary sword, but it was also a weapon used to arm the usual peasant levees in times of war as it is a pretty easy weapon to use/train with and the guards/attacks are very straight forward.

Now, as for how effective it was? Its primary design was to be anti-pike, but I can tell you it sucks against a spear or other similar pole arm. In the vast majority of matcehs we have between someone wielding a longsword Vs someone wielding a spear, the person with the spear wins. Fighting someone with a shield when your armed with a longsword can also be pretty difficult.

Now obviously if your very skilled with a longsword you could theoretically hack through anything, regardless of what your opponent has, however I do think it was pretty limited. You lack the reach of a polearm, but also lack the defense of a shield, so you are left in an awkward middle ground.

Personally I preferred sword and shield and one of the reasons I lose interest in the club was the focus on longswords over sword and buckler combos, or polearms.

But thats just my own two cents on the matter!

[HykalZ]

I was/am a member of a HEMA club (Historical European Martial Arts) and the weapon we train most with is the German longsword/hand and a half sword.

It was mainly a mercenary sword, but it was also a weapon used to arm the usual peasant levees in times of war as it is a pretty easy weapon to use/train with and the guards/attacks are very straight forward.

Now, as for how effective it was? Its primary design was to be anti-pike, but I can tell you it sucks against a spear or other similar pole arm. In the vast majority of matcehs we have between someone wielding a longsword Vs someone wielding a spear, the person with the spear wins. Fighting someone with a shield when your armed with a longsword can also be pretty difficult.

Now obviously if your very skilled with a longsword you could theoretically hack through anything, regardless of what your opponent has, however I do think it was pretty limited. You lack the reach of a polearm, but also lack the defense of a shield, so you are left in an awkward middle ground.

Personally I preferred sword and shield and one of the reasons I lose interest in the club was the focus on longswords over sword and buckler combos, or polearms.

But thats just my own two cents on the matter!

Yes, I am talking about the half-and-a-hand sword or the bastard sword or the longsword or whatever term people prefer to use here on the forums.

Really? Peasants used them too? I thought longswords were a bit too expensive for the average peasant.

I may not practice HEMA (but I so much want to) but I know what you mean about "spear beats almost any melee weapon".

On the battlefield, surely they're not just anti-pike right? From what I know and that means just playing Medieval 2 and reading about stuff here and there, would it make sense to equip a bunch of guys in heavy armour to flank the enemy spearmen while they're engaged with your own spearmen? Because the more I study them, the more I realise it may not be the best battlefield weapon. Lack of reach, lack of shield and all that. SURELY it must make up for something that other weapons at the time couldn't do.

[athanaric]

I've heard it was strongly associated with the knightly class and thus a prestige object. Haven't researched the subject myself, though. Unless you're referring strictly to "two-handed" swords?

German "Dopplesoldner" "double pay" in mercenary companies of the Renaissance period used them to help break through pike formations. This is disputed though, and while I have read plenty of instances of this theory and idea I haven't actually read instances of "The dopplesoldner attacked successfully on the right wing" or what have you.

Small correction: when transcribing words with Umlaute, always attach an "e" to the vowel (-> Doppelsoeldner). Otherwise the word will change meaning (similar to the case of Spanish "ñ").

[hellheaven1987]

Longsword was used due to it was a "heavy sword" for mounted combat, hence combines with speed and weight it could deliver pretty devastating damage to infantry.

[Condottiere 40K]

I understand that the actual knightly side weapon was a lot lighter, since they anticipated swinging it around for quite a while.

Used en masse by dismounted men-at-arms, probably used more to bludgeon your opponent rather than fencing.

[IrishBlood]

Well according to our HEMA instructor, Adam, they were given to peasants by nobles after they were drafted for a campaign. Basically loaned to them. Also this was mainly in the 1500's when such swords would be much more common place. I can only assume this is true as Adam has a near fanatical interest in longswords, owns loads of them and often does exhibits at medieval fairs etc.

Well i think its very effective as a personal defense weapon when not on a battlefield. If someone attacked you with a one handed sword which was most commonly carried in times of peace, you would have an instant advantage. Obviously only people of reasonable status would be allowed to carry longswords openly, but i think its fair to say they were the standard weapon for the mercenaries that guarded rich merchants, goverment officials, nobles etc. In all fairness who in their right mind would attack someone guarded by a retinue armed with longswords??

I think their practical application on the battlefield was reliant on them being used as part of a cohesive formation, almost like a phalanx of swords, they would be most effective attacking the flanks of spear or pike formations, however once the ranks are broken and they are inside the enemy formation, the longsword is pretty useless for such close fighting. The pommel and crossguard would become more effective than the blade as there would be no room to swing it! What my HEMA instructed suggests is that most longsword men would also have a sword and buckler at their waists and once they were stuck into closs fighting within the enemy formation they would drop their longsword once it has ceased to be practical and would use the short(er) sword and buckler instead for the close fighting.

Again, most of the above is a mix of my opinion combined with the opinion of the HEMA instructor, which I believe is pretty practical when you think about it, however, I have no 16th century german documentation to back it up

But in regards to the personnel defense weapon theory; this video backs up the assumption that the standard weapon carried in peace time was a shoertish sword or long dagger (called a messer), so someone with a longsword would have a clear advantage!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcLc...sp4UKrI8q0zjXQ

[Condottiere 40K]

Used primarily to gut cats.

[Mangalore]

...

What I would like to know would be the following:
- how practical it actually was
- why it was popular for so long
- which nation/people used it most
- what battles were its use was the most important or significant

...

The longsword developed quite a bit over the centuries but in the late medieval period it was more of a personal defense weapon of citizens and nobles as well as a status symbol (citizens could carry a sword for self protection outside the city limits, knights could carry it everywhere).

Otherwise: Swords are really good in a one on one fight with fewer armor. If you got to war, bring a spear or polaxe or similar derivative... or better: a gun.