How does culture spread?

[DrakeEB2]

Playing as Sweboz and still don't understand this system...100 turns in and my capital is still slowly losing Forest Tribalism. So i destroyed the nomadic herding and starting building large scale farming since it said culture converion +2. Eventually it let me built the large camp into a city. But now my culture is decreasing even more since it counts as Eastern Tribalism...

Am i stuck with just keeping all Sweboz camps? But wouldn't that constitute Nomadic culture? I've done Sweboz migration to my other camps/towns and it still barely helps with my culture...

[Kull]

First of all, my personal apologies for indicating that this area was straightforward and easily understandable if folks just dug through the available documentation. Obviously that is not the case, and it's exacerbated by the fact that conversions frequently work differently from one faction/culture group to another, that some don't seem to be working at all, and is further complicated by the fact that reforms often use the same mechanism.

Believe me, if the team had a master document describing how all this works, we would share it with you. Unfortunately there is no such animal, and what we do have are a combination of things that vary from the somewhat documented to the ad hoc, further complicated by the fact that even where documentation exists, it often just talks about what SHOULD be happening....not how.

And of course, there's not a central repository even for that. The team recognizes that this is a key element in the functioning of the mod, and when it works properly the immersion and fun factors are enormous. So I would ask two things:

1) Those who have expended significant energy into figuring out how things work for each faction/culture group, please spend some time and gather all that together into a single post (or thread). I see elements of that in this thread, but a coherent focused effort would help all of us get where we need to go, much faster.

2) For the rest, please be patient. This is complex and will take a while to sort out. And the last thing we want to do is provide incomplete directions that lead to additional frustration.

Thank you

[texoman81]

First of all, my personal apologies for indicating that this area was straightforward and easily understandable if folks just dug through the available documentation. Obviously that is not the case, and it's exacerbated by the fact that conversions frequently work differently from one faction/culture group to another, that some don't seem to be working at all, and is further complicated by the fact that reforms often use the same mechanism.

Believe me, if the team had a master document describing how all this works, we would share it with you. Unfortunately there is no such animal, and what we do have are a combination of things that vary from the somewhat documented to the ad hoc, further complicated by the fact that even where documentation exists, it often just talks about what SHOULD be happening....not how.

And of course, there's not a central repository even for that. The team recognizes that this is a key element in the functioning of the mod, and when it works properly the immersion and fun factors are enormous. So I would ask two things:

1) Those who have expended significant energy into figuring out how things work for each faction/culture group, please spend some time and gather all that together into a single post (or thread). I see elements of that in this thread, but a coherent focused effort would help all of us get where we need to go, much faster.

2) For the rest, please be patient. This is complex and will take a while to sort out. And the last thing we want to do is provide incomplete directions that lead to additional frustration.

Thank you

thanks for the update. Now if you can just call off the fanboys who get offended at every mention of anything someone thinks might not work as intended, need to be tweaked, or need to be explained better.
I'm often unsure if something isn't working as intended, or if it was a choice to make some things difficult or impossible for some faction or if im just overlooking something. I know i was unable to convert any cities with the Getae, but have had no trouble figuring it out with Rome, Bosporus, Taksashila and Arevaci.

[QuintusSertorius]

I think I've just confirmed that it's the governor who is linked to a hardcoded increase in your culture. In my Syrakousai game, I took Alalia, then left a mercenary garrison in place with no governor. Hellenistic Polities hasn't shifted at all in almost 20 turns, where in places with governors (including Lilibeo which I took recently) it's been rising, unless it's already really high.

Either that or it's a combination with government, perhaps Allied States don't change?

[Zeleny drak]

For Hellenistic cultures see my post here http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...e-amp-Pergamon. It will not grow past some level (25% for example) if the appropriate military colony is not created.
The generals for all cultures do add a small increase in culture (but again not past the fixed levels, if the cultures has any). However the increase is very small,I would say around a quarter compared with the increase coming from colonies.

[QuintusSertorius]

For Hellenistic cultures see my post here http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...e-amp-Pergamon. It will not grow past some level (25% for example) if the appropriate military colony is not created.
The generals for all cultures do add a small increase in culture (but again not past the fixed levels, if the cultures has any). However the increase is very small,I would say around a quarter compared with the increase coming from colonies.

That's not been my experience at all; I've seen it grow from 20% to 31% without a military colony, indeed with nothing more than time and a governor present.

[DenniZ]

Can anyone tell me how to use the colonists as Hellenon. I've been getting notified by my advisor since turn 1 but I dont know how to use them....

[Zeleny drak]

That's not been my experience at all; I've seen it grow from 20% to 31% without a military colony, indeed with nothing more than time and a governor present.

It will grow with a governor but it will stop at some point. I don't have the values anymore as they were in a save made in the first version of EB2. Maybe it was 35% and not 25%

[Zeleny drak]

Can anyone tell me how to use the colonists as Hellenon. I've been getting notified by my advisor since turn 1 but I don't know how to use them....

Go through all your cities and check if a new building is available. It should be the last in the list and be called something like military settlers and have in the description some text regarding macedonian settlers. Check also in the buildings report what are the requirements for Greek colonies (as you may need to upgrade the farms, for example)

[Ballpoint202]

That's not been my experience at all; I've seen it grow from 20% to 31% without a military colony, indeed with nothing more than time and a governor present.

EBII seems to use the "alternate" piety system from the Britannia Kingdoms campaign, as described here. In the Britannia campaign, M2TW's "piety" became "management" and "religion" became "culture".

In EBII, "management" became "influence", but it seems to work the same. That is, a city governor's influence increases the faction's culture in a city (the greater the influence, the faster the change) without causing additional unrest from other factions present in the city; and it increases income, first by decreasing corruption, then by adding administrative income.

Presumably, culture is also influenced by the cultures of neighboring provinces, as described here.

[Poppis]

EBII seems to use the "alternate" piety system from the Britannia Kingdoms campaign, as described here. In the Britannia campaign, M2TW's "piety" became "management" and "religion" became "culture".

In EBII, "management" became "influence", but it seems to work the same. That is, a city governor's influence increases the faction's culture in a city (the greater the influence, the faster the change) without causing additional unrest from other factions present in the city; and it increases income, first by decreasing corruption, then by adding administrative income.

Presumably, culture is also influenced by the cultures of neighboring provinces, as described here.

Thanks for those links. Interesting read.

[Legion_IX]

Probably a stupid question, but where can I see the actual growth rate of my culture within the city? In the city details window, if I understand it correctly, only the actual difference between your culture and other cultures is showed.

[Poppis]

As far as I know, you can't.

[QuintusSertorius]

Probably a stupid question, but where can I see the actual growth rate of my culture within the city? In the city details window, if I understand it correctly, only the actual difference between your culture and other cultures is showed.

You can't see the rate anywhere, I know from regularly having a look at the culture mix on the settlement summary screen.

[Legion_IX]

As far as I know, you can't.

You can't see the rate anywhere, I know from regularly having a look at the culture mix on the settlement summary screen.

Thanks a lot guys. These are in fact bad news. With the visiable growth rate you would at least have a good indication which of your actions have a positive and negative cultural effect.

[Legion_IX]

I have a problem with culture mechanics in my current Baktria game.

To get the reform you need three steps.
1) reject tribute payments to Arche
2) win 9 battles and conquer 2 provinces from Arche
3) build Basilike Patris

The problems began with the third step. To build this building a need a metropolis, neither of my cities has such a status. To became metropolis you need a Forum and 69% greek culture level. The capital Baktra, has the highest level of 52%. It seems to be that the governor hasn't any effect. I have currently a governor with 9 influence, but the culture level isn't changing at least during my 10 last turns. So the only possibility is to build Military Settlers Barracks. But to build them you need 16 hellenistic settler points and if I understand this correctly they are created by metropolis only, which I don't have at all.

We have here a typical vicious circle. To complete the reform I need to build a metropolis->to have a metropolis I need a high culture level->the only way to increase culture is to build a metropolis

[Giuliano Taverna]

Not at all clear on this but to make Arche Hellenic I should take Pergamon and Alexandria, demolish all native garrison buildings, and make faction colonies and poleis when and where possible?

If not please explain, also should I occupy and reduce taxes on settlements with metropoleis in order to speed up colonial rates or are they independent of actual city development?

[ambereyes]

DrakeEB2, I just started playing as Sweboz and I'm also trying to figure this out.
Two questions:
1. What level of farms did you have before you destroyed the herding?
2. What type of units did you have in your garrison.
It is my impression that forest tribalism represents a nomadic way of life. I don't think there is a way to convert to cities and still maintain forest tribalism.
What I don't know is whether there is a trigger or reform to shift the Sweboz to the European culture found to it's west and south (the name escapes me), but I doubt it. I can't see how it would mesh with the tribal system that characterizes Sweboz gameplay.
Have you ever successfully increased forest tribalism? It's unclear to me if the tribal migration buildings actually do so.

[ambereyes]

A visible growth rate would be incredibly useful. It would make the entire mod significantly more user friendly to be able to see the effect of a queued building on culture in the same way that you can preview it's effect on public order. Does anyone know if this is feasible? Lacking a visible growth rate is there a way to check inside the files somewhere to see what's currently affecting the culture of a given city, or the rate of a change of a culture in a given city?

[ertai1987]

Either that or it's a combination with government, perhaps Allied States don't change?

Allied Administration (of every faction, I think) gives a religion_bonus to rel_x which, per descr_religions, is Other (auto-destroy mechanic and non-factional other). In other words, it's a malus.

EBII seems to use the "alternate" piety system from the Britannia Kingdoms campaign, as described here. In the Britannia campaign, M2TW's "piety" became "management" and "religion" became "culture".

In EBII, "management" became "influence", but it seems to work the same. That is, a city governor's influence increases the faction's culture in a city (the greater the influence, the faster the change) without causing additional unrest from other factions present in the city; and it increases income, first by decreasing corruption, then by adding administrative income.

Presumably, culture is also influenced by the cultures of neighboring provinces, as described here.

Great stuff, I wish we had the hard numbers!