The Parthenon marbles are the world's most beautiful art – and that's why we should give them back

[Caesar Germanico]

There's another explanation for having large phalluses or erect penises in ancient art, and it has to do with male virility and ability to copulate. It's the same token as the highly accentuated female figures with big bosoms in fertility artwork of various periods. For the Romans, take Priapus (Greek: Priapos) for instance:

Spoiler for explicit Roman paintings: 

Yeah, Romans and Greeks had a different concept when it came to male organs.Though I do wonder if the Greek smallfolk felt the same about the penis as the artists did.

I always wonder, was having a small penis a desirable trait in old Europe?

Can't count how many times I have heard this question or a silly comment, it's a flaccid penis why should the athlete have an erection?

[Cyclops]

Yeah, Romans and Greeks had a different concept when it came to male organs.Though I do wonder if the Greek smallfolk felt the same about the penis as the artists did...

From the evidence of the satyr plays and the episode of the herms it seems the Greek smallfolk liked their penises large and erect.

...Can't count how many times I have heard this question or a silly comment, it's a flaccid penis why should the athlete have an erection?

Quite right, but generally classical statuary depict relatively small penises even given they are flaccid/its a cold day/other excuses.

Perhaps there was an erotic quality, or simply norms of beauty tended towards a youthful form.

I wonder what role the kouroi played in religious life. Perhaps they were substitutes for a human sacrifice of a youth. In that case an association of youthful figure and sacred statuary might have been established?

[neoptolemos]

I wonder what role the kouroi played in religious life. Perhaps they were substitutes for a human sacrifice of a youth. In that case an association of youthful figure and sacred statuary might have been established?

They were representing the "kalos" of the male body of an athlete/warrior while the kores were representing the refinement and prudence of the ideal females

[Caesar Germanico]

Quite right, but generally classical statuary depict relatively small penises even given they are flaccid/its a cold day/other excuses.

Perhaps there was an erotic quality, or simply norms of beauty tended towards a youthful form.


I wonder what role the kouroi played in religious life. Perhaps they were substitutes for a human sacrifice of a youth. In that case an association of youthful figure and sacred statuary might have been established?

I am sure you are right, though apparently the size of a flaccid penis is not proportionate to the size when erect.But I doubt an ancient greek collected enormous amount of data and then published a study.

[Kyriakos]

^They just could go see any of the plays by Aristophanes, for that

[Roma_Victrix]

I love how this conversation has devolved into the scrutinization of ancient statues' penises and their state of being flaccid or erect.

[saxdude]

From the evidence of the satyr plays and the episode of the herms it seems the Greek smallfolk liked their penises large and erect

I do have to wonder if the smallfolk of greece didn't just scoff and laugh at the idea of a small penis being more cultured in private, expecially in those states where male-male pederasty was more of an aristocratic thing shunned by the main populace.

[Kyriakos]

Well, just google Aristophanes, the old drawings of the genital props should tell you what the ancient Greek audiences thought.

Also i read (in the Suida byzantine encyclopedia, iirc of the 10th century AD) that Aristophanes also wrote a (non-surviving) comedy centered on a famous statue of "Hermes Tricarinos" (which means 'hermes the three-headed'), which according to scholars and some excerpts here and there was in the central road of Athens and oversaw a crossroad with its three heads. Aristophanes alluded to that, but in the play the statue had three penises (predictably), and so was called 'Triphales' or something of that variety

The props for the aristophanic comedies always feature huge penises, and half the dialogue is on that anyway (part of why i didn't read them :\ i am more of a Euripedes/Bacchai person).

[Himster]

Its an interesting point. Penises come up in ancient art a lot, usually as a happy-gootime-lucky charms and the like. There's ithyphallic depictions of Egyptian Gods, and its not just in the Med: some old Irish chapels are festooned with boners as well as ladies goatse-ing their ladyparts.

I think gentials have a "happytime" magic aura in archaic societies, and were part of riotous popular festivals like the satyr plays. By association big penises may have had a rustic or corny air to them (like our crappy Christmas or Easter decorations) and the smart sophisticated snobs of the Athenian elite may have disdained them as animalistic or rustic.

Certainly Socrates circle sneered at the Herms of Athens with their cheerfully *and supposedly protective) erect penises and allegedly smashed many of them to bits.

Then again the kouros typically have a small penis and they go back to the archaic period, so we can't blame Socrates.

Maybe the Archaic Greeks had an idea about perfect young men being the prettiest thing of all? Not neccasariully erotic, although there might be an exchange of influences with the institution of pederasty?

It's pretty complicated. In Athens social nudity was often viewed as an expression of honesty, having nothing to hide, also an expression of equality: you can't tell who's rich and who's poor straight away, business meetings would often be done in the nude. The Romans liked this expression of egalitarianism for a time...... when it suited them, a polite fiction if nothing else. The whole Satyr/fertility thing is quite separate from all of that though. There were works of explicit homo-eroticism but they're very different from fertility/satyr art, or hero art, there might be some overlap in Hellenistic times, but It's not entirely clear.

[Petrucci]

I always wonder, was having a small penis a desirable trait in old Europe?

There's another explanation for having large phalluses or erect penises in ancient art, and it has to do with male virility and ability to copulate. It's the same token as the highly accentuated female figures with big bosoms in fertility artwork of various periods. For the Romans, take Priapus (Greek: Priapos) for instance:

Spoiler for explicit Roman paintings: 

From the evidence of the satyr plays and the episode of the herms it seems the Greek smallfolk liked their penises large and erect.



Quite right, but generally classical statuary depict relatively small penises even given they are flaccid/its a cold day/other excuses.

Perhaps there was an erotic quality, or simply norms of beauty tended towards a youthful form.

Well you know the sentence: Penis bonus pax in domus.
I guess Hellenes lacked pax

[Roma_Victrix]

Well you know the sentence: Penis bonus pax in domus.
I guess Hellenes lacked pax

Well, they were fighting all the time, nominally over resources and political control of the Hellenic world. Are you suggesting they were fighting instead out of some sense of insecurity compared to the Romans?

On average, I'm sure the Greeks and Romans were the same size.

Okay, that's the last OT post of mine in this thread. I promise!

[saxdude]

On average, I'm sure the Greeks and Romans were the same size.

Why do you think the romans expanded.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Frankly if England offered to give them back I don't think Greece could afford the shipping. And then FedEx would loose it en-route.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Petrucci]

Well, they were fighting all the time, nominally over resources and political control of the Hellenic world. Are you suggesting they were fighting instead out of some sense of insecurity compared to the Romans?

On average, I'm sure the Greeks and Romans were the same size.

Okay, that's the last OT post of mine in this thread. I promise!

How perspicacious observation!

Why do you think the romans expanded.

Fortune favors the bald. It is known.

[Hobbes]

Fortune favors the bald. It is known.

Indeed. It was only after Caesar started losing his hair that he was able to defeat the Gauls.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

All this talk of penises and expansion is making me feel insecure.

[saxdude]

You should go and conquer something to make up for it.

[Petrucci]

You should go and conquer something to make up for it.

Pure gold.

[saxdude]

That helps too.