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Thread: The Slavic Question

  1. #1
    DukeofSerbia's Avatar Decanus
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    Default The Slavic Question

    Hello Ramon Gonzales y Garcia.

    I found other inconsistent descriptions:
    1. like the Picts in Main Campaign. The description is still the same from Celts.
    2. Slavic temples are 100% wrong.

    Plus - You wrote in credits that you use SigniferOne's Animations Pack. I used them in RTR 6.3 and the same problems what I noticed then I see here again. They are great but several heavy cavalry units hold spear/lance in the wrong way. And this is problem when cavalry charge – they hold them wrong and when they stuck in enemy unit then start to use properly. It’s little annoying.

    About ideas - tomorrow or in Monday. Need time to test it (some ideas are from RTR).
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  2. #2
    DukeofSerbia's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: == INVASIO BARBARORUM v6 DISCUSSION ==

    Bugs:
    It’s impossible for conquering Campus Slavi! Settlement is surrounded with forest.



    And river Jordan corrupted texture.

    Last edited by DukeofSerbia; October 07, 2006 at 11:26 AM.
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  3. #3
    DukeofSerbia's Avatar Decanus
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    Default My Suggestions

    Proconsul and Imperial Palace gave the same 10% law bonus for Barbarians and Huns. WRE and ERE has on last three levels 5% happiness bonus.
    I suggest that last three levels has law bonus for all factions (from 5% to 15%).

    I suggest that Barracks from level 1 to 5 have from 5% up to 25% law bonus for decreasing corruption and squalor and for easier control of settlements.

    I put that in my game in export_descr_buildings.txt.

    Following settlements should be in start in Slavic possession (which I will change in descr_strat, it’s little harder but…):



    Campus Latgalia (Slavs start with only this settlement)
    Campus Barbaricum
    Campus Venedae
    Pirobrodiva

    Change Pirobrodiva to be like this (descr_regions.txt):

    Sarmatica
    legion: Barbaricorum
    Piroboridava
    slavs
    Veneti
    125 68 76
    gold, pigs, timber, slaves, slavic
    5
    2
    pagan 100


    Relationship between Huns and Slavs: Slavs are protectorate of Huns (I need to see text from RTR as they do it with Parthia and Bactria which start as Seleucid protectorates in 6.0). This mean that Slavs pay tribute (as I know) and can attack ERE because of military access (which both side will have). Is it historical? Yes (if you need explanation I will write). And when Hunns became weaker Slavic player can betray them and expand.

    Venedi units are recruitable with German and Anglo-Saxon hidden resource. I deleted that.

    recruit "morav infantry" 0 requires factions { slavs, }
    recruit "morav cavalry" 0 requires factions { slavs, }

    After I redo that, I will promote your mod in one the largest Serbian forums for video games (as I did for RTR and following MTR and I plan for Rios 463AD).

    That’s from me for now.
    Last edited by DukeofSerbia; October 07, 2006 at 11:45 AM.
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  4. #4
    Hans Kloss's Avatar J-23
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    Default Re: == INVASIO BARBARORUM v6 DISCUSSION ==

    Quote Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia
    Bugs:
    It’s impossible for conquering Campus Slavi! Settlement is surrounded with forest.
    If I remember right that was done intentionally

    Quote Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia
    And river Jordan corrupted texture..
    Could be just a glitch depending on what video card/drivers you are using.I'm running mod on NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GS (nVIDIA Detonator 92.91) and have not problem with any campaign map textures

  5. #5
    DukeofSerbia's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Bugs or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Kloss
    If I remember right that was done intentionally
    Then it's OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Kloss
    Could be just a glitch depending on what video card/drivers you are using.I'm running mod on NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GS (nVIDIA Detonator 92.91) and have not problem with any campaign map textures
    I have Radeon 9800Pro with Omega drivers (forgot on what version of Catalyst). If is it ok at you then the problem is with my copm. :hmmm: That don't annoy me.
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  6. #6
    Hans Kloss's Avatar J-23
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    Default Re: == INVASIO BARBARORUM v6 DISCUSSION ==

    See if the latest driver help


    BTW @ Slavic temples

    Procopius mentioned Slavs worshipping Perun (God of thunders?) but that was 100 years later

  7. #7
    DukeofSerbia's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Slavic pagan religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Kloss
    BTW @ Slavic temples

    Procopius mentioned Slavs worshipping Perun (God of thunders?) but that was 100 years later
    Ahh, Procopius...

    Slavic pagan religion is well known. Yes, Perun was supreme god (of thunder). I will send tomorrow to Ramon Gonzales y Garcia full list of bugs and proposed improvements with files which are changed. Then you choose what to do? I can't solve two or three things. I need help about that (even if you don't want to put that in mod).
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  8. #8
    Hans Kloss's Avatar J-23
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    Default Re: Slavic pagan religion

    Quote Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia
    I can't solve two or three things. I need help about that (even if you don't want to put that in mod).

    what is that you have in mind -tell us more

  9. #9
    DukeofSerbia's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: == INVASIO BARBARORUM v6 DISCUSSION ==

    I want to create Slavs as protectorate of Huns in start. So far I only managed to both be allies. That's only what I can't solve. Everything else I solved as I looked for answers in Mod Workshop subforum.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: == INVASIO BARBARORUM v6 DISCUSSION ==

    Quote Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia
    I want to create Slavs as protectorate of Huns in start. So far I only managed to both be allies. That's only what I can't solve. Everything else I solved as I looked for answers in Mod Workshop subforum.
    In RTR 6.0 they have the Sarmatians a protectorate over I think the faction was the Thracian's to start the game. I don't have the files downloaded but it would be interesting to see them.

    faction was the Dacians.
    Last edited by Riothamus; October 09, 2006 at 11:29 AM.

    Under the esteemed patronage of Ramon Gonzales y Garcia IB and IB2 Mod

  11. #11
    DukeofSerbia's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: == INVASIO BARBARORUM v6 DISCUSSION ==

    I had some job afternoon and I almost finished remoding. Left work:

    1. New description for Picts as they have old Celtic description.
    2. New description for Slavs as it from vanilla sucks.
    3. Description of Slavic temples (I already included them).
    4. New description of Slavic units.
    5. Still don't know how to create Slavs as protectorate of Huns.


    I found bug - Steppe Spearmen - they hold spear through body!



    Quote Originally Posted by Riothamus
    In RTR 6.0 they have the Sarmatians a protectorate over I think the faction was the Thracian's to start the game. I don't have the files downloaded but it would be interesting to see them.

    faction was the Dacians.
    I looked in descr_strat.txt from RTR 6.3 and I copied they solution and I got - see below... :tooth:
    Last edited by DukeofSerbia; October 09, 2006 at 01:27 PM.
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  12. #12
    DukeofSerbia's Avatar Decanus
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    Default My moding

    I little tested and that's how look relations between Huns and Slavs.



    Starting Slavic position is with three provinces. I tested - Huns started to retreat from Lombardi and signed ceasfire. Huns then went via my provinces (I expected attack and betrey) but they go south from my province. Soon came ERE diplomat and offered ceasefire to me. Also notice new Slavic temple of Perun.



    P.S.
    I hope that I will not forget to put Slavic names (the oldest one).
    Last edited by DukeofSerbia; October 09, 2006 at 01:40 PM.
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    Hans Kloss's Avatar J-23
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    Default Re: == INVASIO BARBARORUM v6 DISCUSSION ==

    I want to create Slavs as protectorate of Huns in start. So far I only managed to both be allies
    We were trying to do that to prevent war between WRE and ERE but it turned out can't be done that way.It has something to do with game's hardcodes.Scripted "force diplomacy" was the only option and in the end we have abadoned idea alltogether

    I hope that I will not forget to put Slavic names (the oldest one)
    Hard to tell which are really the oldest.Being myself of half Slavic origin (Polish) I'm still looking for reliable sources.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksander_Bruckner

    Also notice new Slavic temple of Perun
    Yeah , they should have more of unique temples



    that one of loading screens from Vlad's mod
    Last edited by Hans Kloss; October 09, 2006 at 05:52 PM.

  14. #14
    DukeofSerbia's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Here I come...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Kloss
    We were trying to do that to prevent war between WRE and ERE but it turned out can't be done that way.It has something to do with game's hardcodes.Scripted "force diplomacy" was the only option and in the end we have abadoned idea alltogether
    I also try to create Lombardi as protectorate of Lombardi to simulate history but effect is the same as with Slavs. Now Huns, Slavs and Lombardi are all allies, military access received, military access granted and trade rights. I didn't put realations between Lombards and Slavs to 0 nor they start as allies in descr_strat.txt but they start!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Kloss
    Hard to tell which are really the oldest.Being myself of half Slavic origin (Polish) I'm still looking for reliable sources.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksander_Bruckner
    Wikipedia is not good. I have excellent sources. Trust me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Kloss
    Yeah , they should have more of unique temples
    Currently Slavs use German temples. But not any more. I created three unique temples (Perun, Svarog and Jarilo). You will see when I send files to Ramon Gonzales y Garcia. I can send to you, too but I need e-mail adress or Ramon Gonzales y Garcia send then to you. :hmmm:
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  15. #15
    DukeofSerbia's Avatar Decanus
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    Default ...

    Quote Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia
    I had some job afternoon and I almost finished remoding. Left work:

    1. New description for Picts as they have old Celtic description.
    2. New description for Slavs as it from vanilla sucks.
    3. Description of Slavic temples (I already included them).
    4. New description of Slavic units.
    5. Still don't know how to create Slavs as protectorate of Huns.
    1. done
    2. done
    3. done
    4. done
    5. impossible, also tried with Lombardi!


    Here is the my proposed starting map. I explained everything in my .doc file where I wrote everything what I changed.
    I consider that Vandals start with western-iberian settlements as they with Suebi and Alans conquered western Iberia in 409. :hmmm: Vandal AI is little stupid (I test on hard). They go left, right, sack one settlement, maybe two... Just stupid. Maybe to give them those settlements with several boats/large boats so they can invade Africa?

    What is purpose of script in beggining except when I click with ERE then I have new faction leader?

    Last edited by DukeofSerbia; October 10, 2006 at 01:24 PM.
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  16. #16
    Hans Kloss's Avatar J-23
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    Default Re: == INVASIO BARBARORUM v6 DISCUSSION ==

    Wikipedia is not good. I have excellent sources. Trust me.
    I was refering to Bruckner's book not Wiki.I need to brush up a bit on Slav's mythology.

    Currently Slavs use German temples. But not any more. I created three unique temples (Perun, Svarog and Jarilo). You will see when I send files to Ramon Gonzales y Garcia. I can send to you, too but I need e-mail adress or Ramon Gonzales y Garcia send then to you
    PM Ramon or as an alternative you can upload files to rapidshare - latter option might be easier.BTW what about temple of Svitovid?

  17. #17
    DukeofSerbia's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: == INVASIO BARBARORUM v6 DISCUSSION ==

    Description of Picts is copied from Wikipedia. I don’t like Wikipedia but everything is better than description of Celts.
    Description of Slavs is copied from Francis Conte’s book The Slavs. He’s good. I have parts of his book.
    I see that you used maps of Roman provinces to name provinces in Empire. Excellent! I used following maps for locating Lombardi, Vandals and Huns (it will be later):

    Unsolved:
    1. Slavs are not protectorate of Huns. Anyway, I tested and after some 7-8 turn Huns will attack and brake alliance. After they took one my settlement they offered I become protectorate. I accepted and after two turns they betrayed again. This is AI… The same with Lombardi – they are allies of Huns with trade rights, military access received, military access given but also is the same with the Slavs which I didn’t modify. Weird!
    2. Illyricani Auxilia has peasant UI and units_info when they are mercenaries and they are placed proper in merc folder. Strange?! Also Heruli Comitatus and Heruli Light Cavalry. Units is good but peasant is in unit_info. Why icons in unit_info are in merc and in units is in mercs?
    3. I plan to add another one temple to Slavs (so far I included three – it’s really hard because of contradictor facts).
    4. I can’t find Slavic names (the oldest one) in my computer as I have so many internet pages about history. I have somewhere and when I found it I will put them.

    What I can’t solve as I am not skinner and modeler of units:
    1. Slavic warriors should have small round shield and to be primary armed with javelins and secondary with spear.
    2. Slavic raiders have helmet. Unhistorical.
    3. East Slavic skirmisher – ah, it can be better.
    4. Venedi warriors are problematic. Early Slavs used very rare sword and that used warlords and rare cavalry. Speculations how Venedi are maybe Slavs are wrong. Venedi=Slavs.
    5. Venedi cavalry is absolutely unhistorical. I left them as “necessarily evil”. I will probably erase them from my campaign. Solution is in creating Slavic Raider Cavalry with no armor and helmet, armed with javelins and spear plus cavalry round shield. Like some Germanic factions which have Raider cavalry unit.
    6. Knyaz Druzhina is wrong. Slavic warlord should have cavalry round shield. Primary weapon is javelins and secondary is spear or sword. No helmets.

    Warning
    map.rwm have to be deleted or new applies will not work.
    Last edited by DukeofSerbia; October 11, 2006 at 06:20 AM.
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  18. #18
    DukeofSerbia's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: == INVASIO BARBARORUM v6 DISCUSSION ==

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Kloss
    I was refering to Bruckner's book not Wiki.I need to brush up a bit on Slav's mythology.
    OK. I will look.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Kloss
    PM Ramon or as an alternative you can upload files to rapidshare - latter option might be easier.BTW what about temple of Svitovid?
    Solved. I send via e-mail to Ramon.
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  19. #19
    Ramon Gonzales y Garcia's Avatar Nobleza y Valor
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    Default Re: == INVASIO BARBARORUM v6 DISCUSSION ==

    DukeofSerbia,

    I got the files. Great work!!!! will merge it into IBFD ASAP
    Thanks a million

    by the way here is a faction description given by Annunak, can we mergwe the two descriptions?
    The Slavs were indo-european tribes that were probably relatives of the baltic people and spoke a language that is considered today to belong to the balto-slavic language group. The territory in which the Slavs existed as a people until 500 AD was probably situated between the Odra,the middle basin of the Vistula and the middle basin of the Nipru rivers.\n\nIt is presumed that the initial density of the proto-slavic population was reduced as the sarmatians and the goths didnt encounter a strong ressistance during their migrations. The first written evidence of the proto-slavs appeared around the 1st and 2st century AD when they were mentioned by Plinius, Tacitus, and Ptolemy. The term "slavs" apeared for the first time in the 6th century AD from the Pseudo-Caesarius of Nazianz, Iordanes and Procopios. Iordanes spoke of 3 groups:the Venetii, the Anti, and the Sclavini but the name "sclavini" was the one that came into common usage.\n\nIn the second part of the 5th century, about 454 - after the disolution of the hunnic power, the Slavs began to migrate, and in the next couple of centuries occupied a vast territory that stretched from the Alps to Greece and in the east towards the Taiga regions. In the 6th and 7th century the Slavs crossed the Carpathians mountains in what is today Romania. From there, during the time of Justinian (518-527), they oraganized raids against the East Roman Empire south of the Danube.
    for other ppl here is description by DukeofSerbia
    It is generally believed that the Slavs, so numerous in the fifth and sixth centuries, dispersed in many directions and could not all have inhabited the territory of Polesia, the area of the Pripet marshes in present-day Poland, Byelorussia, and the Ukraine, where they used to be located. Even though they may have spread to greater territories, their tribes must have occupied adjacent regions. They, indeed, continued to speak the same language, the "common Slavic'' until their great migratory periods (in the fifth to sixth centuries). \n\nIn the fifth century B.C., a search for the exotic led the Greeks to discover Scythia and some of its mysteries. They perceived in the north of Hellespont Scythian "farmers" who may have been partly the ancestors of the Slavs. Throughout the first centuries, the Romans came in contact (directly or indirectly) with the Slavs along the Oriental border of their Empire, from the North Sea to the Black Sea and from the Germanic territory to Thrace, as they followed the Danube River. \n\n In the middle of the first millennium, the Slavs were called Venedes in their western territory, Sclavenes in the south and Antes in the east. Jordanes was able to locate the Veneti accurately. According to him, their territory formed a vast triangle extending along the eastern side of the Carpathians and beyond. It reached the high Vistula on the north, the Dnieper in the east, and the Prut in the west. He divided them into two main groups and described the numerous groups: the Veneti tribe settled in rather extensive areas starting at the source of the Visla (Vistula). Although their names changed according to tribes and places, they were usually called Sclavenes and Antes. The Sclavenes and the Antes occupied the entire left bank of the Danube in the fifth century from where they expanded into Balkan peninsula. Contrary to other barbaric peoples, Byzantium was never able to push the Slavs out of this area.
    Last edited by Ramon Gonzales y Garcia; October 11, 2006 at 09:51 AM.
    Ramon Gonzales y Garcia

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  20. #20
    DukeofSerbia's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: == INVASIO BARBARORUM v6 DISCUSSION ==

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramon Gonzales y Garcia
    DukeofSerbia,

    I got the files. Great work!!!! will merge it into IBFD ASAP
    Thanks a million
    Excellent news!


    Quote Originally Posted by Ramon Gonzales y Garcia
    by the way here is a faction description given by Annunak, can we mergwe the two descriptions?


    for other ppl here is description by DukeofSerbia
    Don't merge. His description is old one (plus grammar and spelling). My is the new from Francis Conte.

    This is not true:
    In the 6th and 7th century the Slavs crossed the Carpathians mountains in what is today Romania. From there, during the time of Justinian (518-527), they oraganized raids against the East Roman Empire south of the Danube.
    Francis Conte:
    The Sclavenes and the Antes occupied the entire left bank of the Danube in the fifth century from where they expanded into Balkan peninsula.
    Not 6th and 7th!
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