Ideas/Suggestions

[theharkonnen]

There are only 4 Revivalist (Liu Bei, Liu Zhang, Liu Biao, and Kong Rong); that's too many?

Well, there are only 3 dynastic change factions. It just seems that Liu Bei was the only one that went out of his way to restore the Han. Invading Jingzhou and Ba-Shu territories seems easy for Liu Bei, since they share his "religion".

I mean its no big deal, it just seems a bit off to me.

And I fail to see how either Liu Zhang or Liu Biao were isolationists, as both of them expanded quite a bit and engaged in military expeditions to enlarge their territory. Liu Zhang expanded his control to encompass all of the Sichuan Basin, acquired territories north and east (such as Baidicheng) of Sichuan, sent an expedition led by Zhang Lu to conquer Hanzhong, and repeatedly waged war with Zhang Lu after his revolt. Liu Biao was constantly at war with Yuan Shu, expanded his domain throughout Jingbei and established Zhang Ji and Zhang Xiu as vassals, achieved hegemony over the four prefectures of Jingnan, and constantly fought with Sun Ce and Sun Quan over eastern Jingzhou. In addition to this, Liu Zhang (and Liu Yan before him) engaged in fighting with Liu Biao on a regular basis (Liu Yan/Zhang and Liu Biao were arch-enemies).

I understand this, but I fail to see why this would make them restorationists? I mean the Sun clan is also "isolationist", despite going to war with Liu Biao and others.

Maybe its my understanding of isolationist. Isolationist means to me that someone holds onto their specific region and refuses to really expand across China. They don't really want to get involved.

[sickNsane]

Well, there are only 3 dynastic change factions. It just seems that Liu Bei was the only one that went out of his way to restore the Han. Invading Jingzhou and Ba-Shu territories seems easy for Liu Bei, since they share his "religion".

I mean its no big deal, it just seems a bit off to me.


I understand this, but I fail to see why this would make them restorationists? I mean the Sun clan is also "isolationist", despite going to war with Liu Biao and others.

Maybe its my understanding of isolationist. Isolationist means to me that someone holds onto their specific region and refuses to really expand across China. They don't really want to get involved.

It may mean that but i think its more that they will conquer without the help of allies or trade, if they do use them it would be for a limited time. Just m take on it.

[cheesegrader]

Well, there are only 3 dynastic change factions. It just seems that Liu Bei was the only one that went out of his way to restore the Han. Invading Jingzhou and Ba-Shu territories seems easy for Liu Bei, since they share his "religion".

I mean its no big deal, it just seems a bit off to me.



I understand this, but I fail to see why this would make them restorationists? I mean the Sun clan is also "isolationist", despite going to war with Liu Biao and others.

Maybe its my understanding of isolationist. Isolationist means to me that someone holds onto their specific region and refuses to really expand across China. They don't really want to get involved.

I believe the key point is the land they hold they conquer in the name of the Liu family. Liu Biao taken many cities with the kuai brothers without the need of soldiers, Liu Yan also expanded a lot since he was posted there and Liu Zhang inherited after his death.

[Voice of Treason]

Nothing drastic, just experimenting with some cosmetic changes
(Though any changes in EDU requires a new campaign)

How about a few guerrilla/bandit style units (I'm still learning all this but I changed NANMANGONSHUE (bow) and NANMANBIN (warriors) having their EDU formation changed from regimented square to "Horde" stance?

A quick preliminary warrior and archer and siege palisade and siege walls proved OK
Just a concept to throw out there (it all seemed fine in a play-test)
....???

[The Despondent Mind]

So far I find this ok, some of the "problems" I noticed, I expect will be addressed by moders anyway.

Yet I can't really get into the battle music. It's just sounds so cheesy, cheap and under produced. It feels like an ost from some cheap 90s series.

So if it's possible, I would like to suggest the China OST From the generals games .

I mean it just has the right serious badass tone for a battle in Three Kingdoms Era. I mean if this mod took the "romance" approach, I wouldn't mind so much but still there are better romantic and fantastic scores.

This would also kind off fit



Good for the battle loading screen, no?


Good for the the pre-battle setup, but without the electronic part in around 2:00

[Seether]

It just seems that Liu Bei was the only one that went out of his way to restore the Han.

Perhaps in the fictional novel, but definitely not if you go by history (which this mod attempts to emulate).

I understand this, but I fail to see why this would make them restorationists? I mean the Sun clan is also "isolationist", despite going to war with Liu Biao and others.
Maybe its my understanding of isolationist. Isolationist means to me that someone holds onto their specific region and refuses to really expand across China. They don't really want to get involved.

This is what the Isolationist traits says: The people desire internal security and peace free of interference from all outside influences

[sickNsane]

Perhaps in the fictional novel, but definitely not if you go by history (which this mod attempts to emulate).


This is what the Isolationist traits says: The people desire internal security and peace free of interference from all outside influences

Peace? Sun Quan maybe but Jian and Ce were pretty aggressive.

[cheesegrader]

Peace? Sun Quan maybe but Jian and Ce were pretty aggressive.

sun jian I would consider restoration of the han, he is the main contender during the coalition aganist dong zhuo to free the emperor, but before that when he was young he and his father help pacify the south as civil officers. I think Sun Ce only want to regain the lands his father had control, Yan Baihu is a bandit who declare his own sovereignty in wu territory, his father territory, since Liu Yao aid the bandit he is consider a enemy too, but since this game is base on a timeline, Sun Quan only capture Jing afterward he barely made any progress and doesn't wage war on the north and focus on internal problems. his children made no effort to expand only govern what they are given and bickering among one another. for a state that has a greater advantage to contend with Wei, and not to mention easier pathway to zhongyuan I felt like Wu is the biggest let down.

[sickNsane]

Ahh, well then isolationist seems fitting.

[dalapto]

What's the difference between Daoist Revolution and Daoism? Is one more radical than the other or what?
Can you also change Revival to Restoration, I just think it sounds cooler.

[theharkonnen]

After the arguments listed here, I can understand Liu Biao being restorationist. However, I agree with Cheesegrader that the Sun faction should be changed. But instead of restoration, maybe factionist. It was said Zhou Yu had more power than the Suns, so I would think this would be best. I do not think 2 of the 3 kingdoms should share beliefs for balance sake. I think all three kingdoms should have a different belief.

Although, I still think Liu Zhang should be isolationist. Was there a reason Liu Yan went to Bashu? I always thought he was like, "This is getting crazy over here. Time to bail."

@Dalapto

I thought it was restorationist. Yeah, I think restoration sounds better.

[Seether]

cheesegrader wasn't saying that the Sun Clan should be changed:

sun jian I would consider restoration of the han

He was only talking about Sun Jian (who is long dead by the mod's starting point), not Sun Ce or Sun Quan. Sun Jian was loyal to the Han, but cheesegrader was contrasting him to his successors Ce and Quan. From what I read, he seems fine with the Sun Clan having the belief they do.

What's the difference between Daoist Revolt and Daoism? Is one more radical than the other or what?

Daoist Revolution is pretty much the same as the Way of Peace - the religious teachings of Zhang Jue and the Yellow Turbans. So it's not that one is more radical, but that one is more militant.

[cheesegrader]

After the arguments listed here, I can understand Liu Biao being restorationist. However, I agree with Cheesegrader that the Sun faction should be changed. But instead of restoration, maybe factionist. It was said Zhou Yu had more power than the Suns, so I would think this would be best. I do not think 2 of the 3 kingdoms should share beliefs for balance sake. I think all three kingdoms should have a different belief.

Although, I still think Liu Zhang should be isolationist. Was there a reason Liu Yan went to Bashu? I always thought he was like, "This is getting crazy over here. Time to bail."

@Dalapto

I thought it was restorationist. Yeah, I think restoration sounds better.

Liu Yan originally wanted to move to Jing province seeing how he wanted to avoid the corruption, but after seeing how the imperial family was losing power and grasp on the land he request to move to Yi province further from the chaos and made mianzhu his capital. while coalition was fighting aganist dong zhuo, Liu Yan got busy mustering troops and conquering a lot of cities up to Hanzhong. it was after dong zhuo death he and the allied ma teng try to take back chang an from Li Jue and Guo Si, but failed foiled by Jia Xu Plans. Liu Zhang would had been dead if emperor Xian didnt send him to warn his father and Liu Yan detained him in Ba-Shu, since Liu Yan other three son were co-conspirator inside the city to help rid of traitors, but the plan was exposed and were all executed, overly grieved from two of the three son death and the natural disaster as lighting had stuck and caught fire in the capital as well as contracting an illness the latter past away. after the fire caught in Mianzhu they relocated it to Chengdu

[dalapto]

Can shrines get effects at level one like in the original Rome? It's irritating having to check the building browser every time to see the effects.
Can we also get roads for Mountain Passes and the ability to build peasants there? It doesn't make any sense to have a Leather Tanner or a Shrine on it's own and no roads (especially in Winter) are a pain.

[cheesegrader]

Can shrines get effects at level one like in the original Rome? It's irritating having to check the building browser every time to see the effects.
Can we also get roads for Mountain Passes and the ability to build peasants there? It doesn't make any sense to have a Leather Tanner or a Shrine on it's own and no roads (especially in Winter) are a pain.

I tho the reason there was no troops recruitable cause its not a city but rather a well build fortification wall, heavy makeshift castle compare to regular camps that officers can put up.

[Seether]

Can shrines get effects at level one like in the original Rome? It's irritating having to check the building browser every time to see the effects.

That could potentially make shrines overpowered, or at least more powered than we'd like them to be. Checking the building browser isn't that much trouble.

Can we also get roads for Mountain Passes... and no roads (especially in Winter) are a pain.

No. They purposely don't have roads so as to simulate the difficulty in moving an army through the narrow mountain pass. If it is a pain in the winter, then it is working as intended.

... and the ability to build peasants there? It doesn't make any sense to have a Leather Tanner or a Shrine on it's own

An no on the peasants as well (see cheesegrader above). Being that it is purely a strategic defensive fortification, it has a Leather Tanner so you can upgrade low-tier troops that may get stationed there or travel through, and the shrine is to help with Public Order and Belief Conversion. I talk about the Fortified Pass in my Gameplay Notes.

[Stath's]

The faction symbols are Chinese letters or syllables , right? They are a bit confusing, I can't really tell them apart.

So is there no hope for a change regarding the faction symbols?

[dalapto]

So is there no hope for a change regarding the faction symbols?

It is confusing but there's probably no alternative. My best suggestion for an alternative would be a symbol (not a Chinese character) for what each faction specializes in or something that represents them. Or maybe a combination of the Chinese character(s) and the representative symbol for them. For example, the emperor has a Dragon and the Chinese character on top of the dragon. Probably wouldn't work for all factions though.

That could potentially make shrines overpowered, or at least more powered than we'd like them to be. Checking the building browser isn't that much trouble.

A 0.1% growth bonus or +1 law bonus wouldn't make it overpowered, all higher tier shrines could have the same values, base ones have minute values, almost ineffectual ones. Not sure about the Armour shrine maybe recruitment costs -0.1% or -1%, and for the morale shrine I don't know maybe cheaper agent recruitment costs or cheaper construction costs? I haven't a clue honestly.

Being that it is purely a strategic defensive fortification, it has a Leather Tanner so you can upgrade low-tier troops that may get stationed there or travel through, and the shrine is to help with Public Order and Belief Conversion.

I guessed you would say something like that
It is 12 turns per year (or something like that) so movement isn't too bad.
There is definitely going to be a different battle map for fortified passes eventually? I thought it would be cool have a pass with 2 levels of walls, one outside & one inside with tents and a couple of buildings. Maybe that sounds silly. Also what else are you planning to include in the next release? Too much questions? Maybe?

[Seether]

So is there no hope for a change regarding the faction symbols?

It is confusing but there's probably no alternative. My best suggestion for an alternative would be a symbol (not a Chinese character) for what each faction specializes in or something that represents them. Or maybe a combination of the Chinese character(s) and the representative symbol for them. For example, the emperor has a Dragon and the Chinese character on top of the dragon. Probably wouldn't work for all factions though.

Pretty much the problem. While some factions have an obvious symbol that could be used, most other do not. Recognition of the current symbols will come in time, as they are color coded and the same as their strat banners.

A 0.1% growth bonus or +1 law bonus wouldn't make it overpowered, all higher tier shrines could have the same values, base ones have minute values, almost ineffectual ones. Not sure about the Armour shrine maybe recruitment costs -0.1% or -1%, and for the morale shrine I don't know maybe cheaper agent recruitment costs or cheaper construction costs? I haven't a clue honestly.

You can't do 0.1% growth; the lowest is 0.5%. Also, the benefits from shrines are intentionally minute. It is not until you develop them into temples that you start to see tangible benefits outside of religious conversion.

I guessed you would say something like that
It is 12 turns per year (or something like that) so movement isn't too bad.
There is definitely going to be a different battle map for fortified passes eventually? I thought it would be cool have a pass with 2 levels of walls, one outside & one inside with tents and a couple of buildings. Maybe that sounds silly. Also what else are you planning to include in the next release? Too much questions? Maybe?

Yes, but we have to do it via IWTE and such is not an easy task. I have delved into IWTE a little bit, but I am not yet skilled enough to create the fortified pass as I would like them. As far as the next patch, I'm not sure yet. Bug fixes, a new "officer type" for some units, and perhaps the Cao Clan missions. Can't promise anything, but we'll see.

[cheesegrader]

in the next patch could we change some of the famous officer loyalty and dread level? cause I see a lot of faction famous generals and they got very low loyalty and dreads, cause back in the beta before 1.0 loyalty seem to make a lot more sense for instance zhang he was recruitable, but yan liang and wen chou cannot. basically any generals that switch sides got lower loyalty while officers that stick with one faction stays high loyalty. cause I see sun qian, liao hua, lu meng, and etc etc got high dread and no loyalty.