You can't Fight Fate ( SS 6.4 Baltic Blitz! )

[Vipman]

Next http://www.mediafire.com/download/65...Denmark_16.rar

[yuonyuon]

i need 2 days extension . i will be away from pc. i hope is OK

[yuonyuon]

Im back home ,but it will take a while until i will get at the PC .

[Mithridate]

Clearly

[yuonyuon]

Clearly

what do you mean?? you thought me to keep people informed?
)))

By the way i manage to finish the turn with a broken keyboard ....anyway . war is going to get big in the near future ,Lithuania will be driven away from Scandinavia and TO will suffer for his puppet actions . about Scotland the situation is funny .

[yuonyuon]

second part!

[Mithridate]

I am amazed how high odds you get with your merchants, I rarely have more than 5-10% chance even when my mercs have a few levels

Anyhow, you used a bug with that fort - I request you replay that or that admin issues a suitable fine. Sieging to then pull out garrisons is cowardice and foul, but legal.
Standing next to a fort to repeatedly jojo the defenders is using a bug ( outside army enters fort, attacker moves to defeateds prev spot and defeated moves out from the fort to be attacked again ).

[yuonyuon]

I am amazed how high odds you get with your merchants, I rarely have more than 5-10% chance even when my mercs have a few levels

Anyhow, you used a bug with that fort - I request you replay that or that admin issues a suitable fine. Sieging to then pull out garrisons is cowardice and foul, but legal.
Standing next to a fort to repeatedly jojo the defenders is using a bug ( outside army enters fort, attacker moves to defeateds prev spot and defeated moves out from the fort to be attacked again ).

i have to check my merchant i noticed that too.

but about the fort ? what do you mean?

but legal.

well next time don t let units near fort "undefended" the temptation is high. and there is no rules against like there is none for missions from where you get your siege weapons.

Thorn will be retaken anyway .and TO will fell the power of red money ,in bottom right corner of the screen ,again.)))

[Mithridate]

but about the fort ? what do you mean? well next time don t let units near fort "undefended" the temptation is high. and there is no rules against like there is none for missions from where you get your siege weapons.

I mostly brought up your siegeblocking to highlight that it is not what I meant when stating you had used a bug. You can request rules against the missions if you want, just as I could against siegeblocking to pull garrisons.

As to the bug:

Place a unit next to a fort, defeat anything in the same forts ZoC and it will enter the fort unless blocked by siege, stand there and then be pushed out when the victorious army takes its new position. Play the same thing again slowly and you will see what I mean, you used this to get past the TO fort I assume? I think the layman term is fort yo-yoing.

You fighting poor captain Kurt so many times is a dead giveaway, your screens are not accurate either to what happened ( though that is minor ).

[yuonyuon]

I mostly brought up your siegeblocking to highlight that it is not what I meant when stating you had used a bug. You can request rules against the missions if you want, just as I could against siegeblocking to pull garrisons.

As to the bug:

Place a unit next to a fort, defeat anything in the same forts ZoC and it will enter the fort unless blocked by siege, stand there and then be pushed out when the victorious army takes its new position. Play the same thing again slowly and you will see what I mean, you used this to get past the TO fort I assume? I think the layman term is fort yo-yoing.

You fighting poor captain Kurt so many times is a dead giveaway, your screens are not accurate either to what happened ( though that is minor ).

The screens shows that i didn t play the battle on the battlefield.

you used this to get past the TO fort I assume?

Ohh that glitch you talking about , well i didn t use that in any way .the fort was taken then i siege Thorn , and the army outside didn't retreat in fort after first battle , then you have to beat them strategically until the nr of unit from the fort get same nr as those outside , so they die booth .

other than besieging the fort to bring Kurt near i did nothing wrong. and i don t think if admin can redo my moves accurately but i assure you there are no tricks .

Anyway i give you chance to prove that you didn t play with TO , we will see if you resist temptation ))))you will see when your turn comes.

[Mithridate]

We're talking in circles but I'll try to clarify again:

Ohh that glitch you talking about , well i didn t use that in any way .the fort was taken then i siege Thorn , and the army outside didn't retreat in fort after first battle , then you have to beat them strategically until the nr of unit from the fort get same nr as those outside , so they die booth .

other than besieging the fort to bring Kurt near i did nothing wrong. and i don t think if admin can redo my moves accurately but i assure you there are no tricks .

According to your screens whom does not quite add up regarding positioning, you seem to have.

First battle by fort: Image displays you using the bug I described <-- This is the only major thing, the screens are inaccurate but leaves little doubt anyway. ( Kurt post defeat by fort is positioned where you supposedly had an army, this is impossible - still minor ofc ). But I'll wager you have left out 1-2 battles where you brought Kurt down from 50ish men to the 5 men you show in the last screen.

You attacked the same captain, outside the fort 2-5 times to wipe both forces out and pass?

Anyway i give you chance to prove that you didn t play with TO , we will see if you resist temptation ))))you will see when your turn comes.

I cannot provide a sliver of evidence that I have not, fortunately I am not the one making the claim, you are.

I've trieed to be clear and have said my peace, it is up to loose what to do and if he wants to explain further

[yuonyuon]

Well i used a bug to do what exactly? you should be more specific about what bug i used , what i achieve and what rule had been broken ,or what rule of morality because i think is a misunderstanding here.

i know two glitches that can occur in this situation but none of them are used

it this stage i clearly don know what are talking about anymore.


EDIT:

the screens are inaccurate but leaves little doubt anyway

the screens are very accurate!!

[Loose Cannon]

Let us pause for a moment while I figure things out.

[yuonyuon]

Let us pause for a moment while I figure things out.

NO !! Lets continue if i did something wrong i will get a fine or i will windrow from Thorn region. because all i did was that i took a fort and a peasant archer by beating the unit next to it. that was done in every HS until now .

Arrow play your turn , there is nothing to investigate .to many bumps everywhere .

[Mithridate]

I tried to avoid a holdup, may it not be a long one.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As things cut from the same cloth, It always the same in the end.

[Vipman]

Yes we really need to clear out these issues, whether besieging fort/settlement so defeated armies stay near it instead of going inside, and then repeatedly defeating army which yoyo's around instead of retreating inside fort/settlement and you kill both armies taking fort/settlement without assaulting it.

We have to clear this out and apply it to all hotseats, are they bugs (I'd say they are as army should retreat inside if there is enough room) or not, is it an exploit to repeatedly defeat army that yoyo's around instead of entering settlement, do we need separate rules to ban them or not?

Unless we can solve this fast I have no problem with continuing, next turn danish army could not be allowed to take Thorn that turn, if it is decided so.

[Mithridate]

Besieging to deny retreat is no more a bug than pulling out an army from ambushing imo and should be legal unless agreed that it should not be. What I am talking about, is not doing that but an actual bug that causes forces retreating into a fort, to move out again instead of remaining in the fort. ( the former prevents them from entering the fort in the first place, the latter depends on them moving into the fort ).

The bug: Army gets defeated in the fort ZoC when any other hostile army is inside the same fort ZoC -> Defeated army moves into fort -> Victorios army takes defeated armys old position -> Army that retreated inside fort moves outside again due to bugg. This can be repeated until everything is dead ( looks like Yuon did that here ).

I tried to make it very clear that these two instances are very different things, this bugg cannot be done with settlements btw.

[yuonyuon]

I hope that decision will be implemented from next turn ! that's all i hope . even it was done multiple times in the past .

so the moving ship bug is allowed(that one when you gain +1 mov.point at the time) and use of missions to gain extra units (spawning , in HS is more like a cheat ) so that is not

cowardice and foul

next turn danish army could not be allowed to take Thorn that turn, if it is decided so.

really ?

There is only one way to save Thorn and TO , but not by the admin of course.

Whatever decision is made, Scotland should be playing right now.

[Vipman]

But you're the one who said above if you did wrong you should "get a fine or withdraw from Thorn", if admin says it's not ok that because of that bug you eliminated the armies and took the empty fort, then you should have ended the turn besieging the fort and not Thorn, that's why I said you should not be allowed to take Thorn if admin says it's not ok that you took the fort the way you did. It would be the normal thing to do, again only if admin decides that it was not ok.

[Mithridate]

I hope that decision will be implemented from next turn ! that's all i hope . even it was done multiple times in the past .

This bug has not been allowed in the past, ever - Or are you meaning rules being implemented in hindsight regarding bugs? In either case, prove it as I do not believe it.

Should it have happened, I do not think it should be so here anyway as bugs are impermissible - you'd need to provide reasons for why an exception should be made imo.

so the moving ship bug is allowed(that one when you gain +1 mov.point at the time) and use of missions to gain extra units (spawning , in HS is more like a cheat ) so that is not

Movement bug is a bug = impermissible - bugs are impermissable
Missions are a game mechanic functioning as intended = permissible unless we want to impose restrictions.

The former is not allowed as per rules, the latter is allowed unless unless agreed or enforced otherwise. I can certainly agree that swapping capitol to affect where rewards appear ( or adoptions ) is abuse of the engine and should not be allowed, though most people whom knows of this use it and I do not intend to be an example of chivalry.



We are still talking in circles and waiting for the Canon.