Should the West (mainly USA and EU) support the Syrian Army in it's war against ISIS?

[General Brittanicus]

For those claiming the US armed ISIS, can I get a source?

We (the West) have been arming all kinds of bloodthirsty maniacs in the middle east and north Africa as of late, so I wouldn't put it past us to have armed ISIS as well. Having said that I was under the impression that a lot of the modern arms that ISIS is currently using were seized from the Iraqi army (provided by the US) when they ran away. However I do imagine their is a good chance that at least some of the arms we have been flooding the area with recently will have found their way to ISIS as well.

[Derpy Hooves]

http://larouchepac.com/node/31101

http://thehill.com/policy/internatio...en-paul-claims

The first one, Larouche, is from a site about a nutjob, who believes that the Queen of the UK is pushing drugs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Views_o...ouche_movement

The second one, does not say that the US is arming ISIS, but their "allies." Which can mean many things, depending on how you interpret allies. For people who cannot handle the complex situation that is occurring in Syria, it means all the rebels (which includes the FSA which the US is arming)
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/26/po...ition-funding/
Try again.
@General Brittanicus
That's a risk that is faced in wars when you are supplying one side that you see as the better side. There is always the chance that those supplies leak over to the enemy because the enemy captured equipment.

[General Brittanicus]

@General Brittanicus
That's a risk that is faced in wars when you are supplying one side that you see as the better side. There is always the chance that those supplies leak over to the enemy because the enemy captured equipment.

Well yes, but there are no "better sides" in Syria and we shouldn't have been providing any arms at all to the area in the first place. I have serious doubts that we weren't supplying ISIS fighters in the first place before we actually decided they were the worst of the awful groups we were supporting. As for the equipment they captured from the Iraqi army I agree that there was always a risk that ISIS would have captured some of it, but I don't think we expected the western trained and equipped Iraqi army to collapse quite as fast as it did once we pulled out - perhaps we would have been better served giving all the weapons to the Kurds instead. Hopefully we now divert all military aid away from Syria into supporting the Kurds instead who I have a little more faith will actually make a fight of it and who I see as the only group capable of building a stable secular state in the area - the more land they manage to gain control of the better.

[Derpy Hooves]

But there is, the FSA, although based on how things are going right now, they are probably going out the window. Too bad we didn't supply them at the beginning, and really only started doing so last year.

[Condottiere 40K]

Ambivalence and middle east fatigue can be blamed for that; the Western electorates didn't want to get involved, and mostly still don't.

[Mary The Quene]

Well the FSA is still strong in the South though, however they have virtually dissapeared in the North though

[Bethrezen]

For those claiming the US armed ISIS, can I get a source?

Easy. Remember the "Syrian rebels" and how they were pushed by the Syrian Army beyond the Syria's borders, into Iraq? What happened immediately? ISIS appeared.

Now, it's a simple matter of googling "FSA join ISIS" and you will find your sources.
Since US armed FSA, you can make your own conclusions. Plus, Iraq was US' client state anyway.

[Derpy Hooves]

That kind of logic means that arming the Iraqi military=arming ISIS (since ISIS captured lots of Iraqi equipment). That would also mean that the Syrian military is arming the rebels (Syrian army soldiers killed means extra equipment for ISIS). Also this shows that you completely do not understand the Syrian Civil War. Please show me where the Syrian rebels have been pushed beyond the borders. Although the strength of the moderate rebels is now waning, the civil war is still going strong.
Also, Iraq was not a US client state. That one statement you made shows you know nothing about Iraq. If anything, they were a client state of Iran.

[Condottiere 40K]

Except for ISIS, regime forces and rebels strengths are relative, more of a question which is being attritioned faster. Without Hezbollah and the Iranians, the conflict might be over.

[Mayer]

to answer the question of the OP;

the EU: YES
the USA: illogical, they would never support a ally of russia (also they are responsible that ISIS could form in the first place)

[Aru]

How do we support Assad? Should we just say "Hey that Assad guy isn't so bad, that Syrian rebellion we armed and supported was just a bit of a misunderstanding". And Assad will say "lol ok, np" and rebels will say "yea, that Assad bloke's alright after all". And they will hold hands and kindly forget years of civil war, over hundred thousand dead and ruined cities around them. And there will be news reports "We are in northeast Syria where once enemies, and now fighters of Reunited Syria are pushing IS out of the country together. These men behind me fought each other, killed each other and tortured each other for years and are now merely enjoying a game of chess and a cup of tea in between kicking Islamist ass.

"Oh yes, Halid here was in my sniper sight only three months ago, but I missed him, and now we are pals. How lucky you, right Halid?"
"Haha, right Musa, hahaha"

"From northwestern Syria for Al Jazeera, Ivana Fukalot".

Worst thing is, it's actually possible to end like that, however unlikely.

[PointOfViewGun]

Many things should have been done differently but I don't think Syrian army should be supported. Instead, the West should start from the beginning. Pick one group and support it properly. Arm and train it. Train it properly. Have Turkey carve out a region in the north as a buffer zone for refugees and training.

[Vanoi]

Easy. Remember the "Syrian rebels" and how they were pushed by the Syrian Army beyond the Syria's borders, into Iraq? What happened immediately? ISIS appeared.

ISIS have been around since the Iraq War. They were not suddenly just born in March of 2013.

Now, it's a simple matter of googling "FSA join ISIS" and you will find your sources.
Since US armed FSA, you can make your own conclusions. Plus, Iraq was US' client state anyway.

How about you google the recent story of the ISIS pushing the FSA back in Northern Syria? Are they friends?

[Condottiere 40K]

There's not much we can do about Assad, since he's protected by Russia and China in the Security Council, and Iran and Hezbollah in the field. Actually, we could, but it doesn't seem worth the effort.

If Turkey wants to more actively support the FSA, it can. I think that Syria is in the same position as the US was in Vietnam, doesn't want to spark off a direct confrontation with Turkey.

[Mangalore]

Well yes, but there are no "better sides" in Syria and we shouldn't have been providing any arms at all to the area in the first place. I have serious doubts that we weren't supplying ISIS fighters in the first place before we actually decided they were the worst of the awful groups we were supporting. As for the equipment they captured from the Iraqi army I agree that there was always a risk that ISIS would have captured some of it, but I don't think we expected the western trained and equipped Iraqi army to collapse quite as fast as it did once we pulled out - perhaps we would have been better served giving all the weapons to the Kurds instead. Hopefully we now divert all military aid away from Syria into supporting the Kurds instead who I have a little more faith will actually make a fight of it and who I see as the only group capable of building a stable secular state in the area - the more land they manage to gain control of the better.

The west did never even arm the Free Syrian army because of its affiliation with Al Nusra. There was a key point where France and the US were close to intervention and essentially the islamists on the rebel side plus Russia + China warning against it made that collapse as not worthwhile to counter productive. Since then there is no big support of the Syrian rebels anymore (black ops and some humanitarian support nonwithstanding), they get their stuff from Saudi Arabia, Turkey and other Arab countries and I'm afraid they might have been far more okay with ISIS and its ideology for a good while till the call for the caliphate threatened their own power.

Giving the Kurds weapons pisses of Turkey, supporting Assad suppports a dictatorship, arming the FSA has high potential of those weapons ending up with ISIS.

[Bethrezen]

Everyone suddenly got a hit in the head and seems to have forgotten the similarities in the behavior of both FSA and ISIS: decapitations, murdering civilians, executing of prisoners, acts of terrorism.
Here, I googled it for you: https://www.google.ro/?gws_rd=ssl#q=fsa+decapitation
I can't believe some of you think arming FSA is actually better than supporting Assad. Do you think FSA should run Syria?

How about you google the recent story of the ISIS pushing the FSA back in Northern Syria? Are they friends?

No source to back your words (I, at least, wrote one), yet you tell me to google things. Does that mean you posses the supreme truth?

Many things should have been done differently but I don't think Syrian army should be supported. Instead, the West should start from the beginning. Pick one group and support it properly. Arm and train it. Train it properly. Have Turkey carve out a region in the north as a buffer zone for refugees and training.

The scope of US is to arm multiple groups so that no major power could ever arise from the area.

That kind of logic means that arming the Iraqi military=arming ISIS (since ISIS captured lots of Iraqi equipment). That would also mean that the Syrian military is arming the rebels (Syrian army soldiers killed means extra equipment for ISIS). Also this shows that you completely do not understand the Syrian Civil War. Please show me where the Syrian rebels have been pushed beyond the borders. Although the strength of the moderate rebels is now waning, the civil war is still going strong.
Also, Iraq was not a US client state. That one statement you made shows you know nothing about Iraq. If anything, they were a client state of Iran.

No, that means only what I wrote, nothing else. Yes, I completely do not understand things. It's good that you do. It's a good way in life to always be certain that you KNOW how things are better than everyone else.
Also, I did not say Iraq was a US client state. I said it IS a US client state.

[Derpy Hooves]

ДHow is Iraq a US client state?
About those acts of terrorism, show me where the FSA heads supported the acts of terrorism? Also, at least they haven't been turning Syria into a post apocalypticesque wasteland like Assad's military, which he condones, has done.

[Bethrezen]

ДHow is Iraq a US client state?
About those acts of terrorism, show me where the FSA heads supported the acts of terrorism? Also, at least they haven't been turning Syria into a post apocalypticesque wasteland like Assad's military, which he condones, has done.

Client state = a country that is dependent on a larger and more powerful country for its political, economic, or military welfare.
Well, Iraq is very dependent on US at least on military level. Didn't US armed the Iraq military and police? Didn't US trained them? Doesn't Iraq ask now for US military support? How do you define a client state?

To answer your second point: Assad haven't done anything different than Israel is doing in Gaza. FSA deployed the same military tactics as Hamas + barbaric and terrorist acts.

[Derpy Hooves]

Don't talk about Israel and Gaza, I couldn't care less about that topic and neither should you on this thread, as it is off topic. The fact is, Assad has left Syria in ruins. Now if you can't give me a source that the FSA condones these practices, then that just means these are isolated incidents that happened because of one or a few monsters.

[Mary The Quene]

I like the fact that you only blame Assad and none other gets blamed for the current situation