Personal Tweaks to COW

[Javesh]

Wow. That sounds nice. Wouldn't might tightening my spear walls and such as when fighting in towns I get annoyed by enemy units passing threw my formations. EDU? You mean Export Description Units?

[Vossie]

You want to be careful there tho.. these modification will make them really OP.

[MeatChopper]

Yep, this is from the export_descr_unit. And Vossie, the attack and defense stats tend to be higher across the board in my EDU, so that's not a problem. A frontal assault is a terribly bad idea, as it should be, but they still get slaughtered when outflanked.

[Javesh]

hmm. Well if you have adjusted your whole EDU, maybe you would like to share it?

[MeatChopper]

Uhm, probably not the one I'm using right now, it's still a WIP and all in all, Empire is going to be stronger in my EDU when it's finished, just to show who's boss lore-wise. I mean Archaon's armies aren't supposed to get any further than Middenheim during the Storm of Chaos. Plus I need slightly stronger allies because I never expand beyond what would be my faction's provinces in the lore. So yeah, my EDU really only makes sense for my own playstyle. If you want it anyway, I'll upload it tomorrow or so after I switched around and tested some more values.

[Vossie]

Yep, this is from the export_descr_unit. And Vossie, the attack and defense stats tend to be higher across the board in my EDU, so that's not a problem. A frontal assault is a terribly bad idea, as it should be, but they still get slaughtered when outflanked.

Yeah, try killing them in a city.

That's the OP part I meant.. they're pretty much immortal from the front.. and well some scenarios don't provide the luxury of flanking them.
I don't like to use it as I don't have any trouble with my pikemen but I heard it does wonders for other people none the less. Thanks for sharing.

[Javesh]

ah ok. Well maybe I should just try to tweak things myself. Currently not playing the MOD right now, but if I know myself correct, then i'll be playing again soon. Waiting for some more goodness from Kahvi hehe. That + some minor tweaks will be fun

[MeatChopper]

I don't know if you did any EDU editing before, Javesh, but it's really easy to get the hang of it. Three things I found to be invaluable:

1) http://notepad-plus-plus.org - superior to the usual notepad in every way
2) http://medieval2.heavengames.com/m2t...de/index.shtml - a comprehensive guide to the export_descr_unit
3) Backups

Edit: Oh, and if you're interested in editing buildings as well, here's the same guide for the export_descr_buildings.txt:
http://medieval2.heavengames.com/m2t...de/index.shtml

[Javesh]

Yea I think I've gotten the hang of editing the EDU and EDB. I've made the mistake of changing something and not having a backup :|
So far I've changed what I wrote in the first post and since it's in a .txt file, it shouldn't be that hard. As for Changing models and such is another matter. I've seen the numbers in the EDU that you mentioned, but I just didn't have any idea of what they did. Thanks to you I now know

[MeatChopper]

Yea I think I've gotten the hang of editing the EDU and EDB.[...] So far I've changed what I wrote in the first post...

lol already forgot about that...okay, stupid comment on my part (note to self: think first, type later )
Anyway, it's been bugging me for quite some time that there are no fire arrows in the game as it is. Is there any specific reason why? Do they still work in M2, or is this just a relic from RTW? It's been a hell of a long time since I played vanilla M2. There are fire arrows in the descr_projectiles, but it seems no unit is using them. I'm really tempted to give them to some units, since the towers (even cannon towers) are surprisingly useless against siege equipment.

Edit: Meh. They work...sort of. There's no model for flaming arrows in flight, so you have people getting hit by standard arrows and then going up in flames. -_- Only solution I can see so far is marketing ("Albert the Alchemist's Amazing Spontaneous Combustion Arrows"!)

Edit #2: Got it. Models (effects, actually) are there, but the custom effect from the mod doesn't use them. You have to change the "effect" line of the projectile in the descr_projectile.txt to use the vanilla M2 effect.

projectile arrow_fiery


flaming arrow
effect arrows_fire_new_set <- instead of "arrow_warhammer_model_set"
end_effect arrow_flaming_impact_ground_set
end_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_package_effect arrow_flaming_impact_wall_set
end_shatter_effect arrow_flaming_impact_ground_set
end_shatter_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_shatter_package_effect arrow_flaming_broken_impact_wall_set

Final Edit (promise): D'OH! They're burning in flight and on impact, but not before being released -.-

[Javesh]

Ohh nice. I've wondered about that. As you said the tower arrows have been rather Meh. Will be sure to add this If you find more awesome stuff then let me know

[MeatChopper]

I'll keep you posted. Remaining problems:
Arrows are not on fire before being released. They're working, but don't zoom in on your archers when they shoot. Looks weird.

Update: Before you start editing, there are some changes I had to make which I didn't mention earlier.
THIS is how a new, working, projectile looks like in my descr_projectile (+ the original for reference):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

projectile longbow_mega


effect arrow_warhammer_model_set
end_effect arrow_impact_ground_set
end_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_package_effect arrow_impact_wall_set
end_shatter_effect arrow_impact_ground_set
end_shatter_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_shatter_package_effect arrow_broken_impact_wall_set


effect_offset -1.5
damage 1
radius 0
mass 0.01
accuracy_vs_units 0.015
affected_by_rain
min_angle -75
max_angle 75
velocity 22 50
display aimed
effect_only


projectile longbow_mega_fiery <- Guess you can name it however you want, I added this extension to the flaming version


flaming longbow_mega <- New line, tells the game that this is the flaming version of the projectile above; The game automatically adds the ability to switch between projectiles to the archers if an alternative version is present
effect arrows_fire_new_set <- As said before, without changing this line you will have standard arrows in flight
end_effect arrow_flaming_impact_ground_set
end_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_package_effect arrow_flaming_impact_wall_set
end_shatter_effect arrow_flaming_impact_ground_set
end_shatter_man_effect man_impact_tiny_set
end_shatter_package_effect arrow_flaming_broken_impact_wall_set


effect_offset -0.85 <- Change in values not necessary, I just copied this over from the arrow_fiery
damage 1
radius 0
mass 0.01
accuracy_vs_units 0.024 <- Same here, decrease in accuracy not necessary but it makes sense
affected_by_rain
fiery <- New line, don't know exactly what it does, but the arrow_fiery has it, so...
min_angle -60 <- Again, copied from the arrow_fiery
max_angle 75
velocity 22 50
display aimed
effect_only

Update: I have all new projectiles in-game and working now, must have been a typo somewhere or something. Apart from the changes in the descr_projectile, I had to edit one line in the EDU; the shortbow_mega is used by halflings and ellyrian reavers; since the reavers are cavalry giving them fire arrows is weird, so I gave them their own projectile (identical to shortbow_mega). You simply have to change their primary weapon stats inside the EDU to
stat_pri x, y, shortbow_mega_HE, abc, de, missile, missile_mechanical, piercing, none, 0, 1

Cut that, cavalry never uses flaming arrows anyway.

My new descr_projectile is attached to this post, in case anybody wants it.

Another Update:
On a related topic...well, the original reason why I wanted to have fire arrows was because the tower defenses were too weak compared to the siege engines. Turns out the towers are not the real problem, the siege engines are. Even the small siege towers (against which you only have arrow towers to defend) have 500 hit points instead of the 130-150 of vanilla M2. The "engine_ignition" parameter has also been modified (0.15 instead of 0.3), although I'm not sure if that increases or decreases the chance to catch fire...but based on in-game experience I would say it's a decrease. I'll run some tests with modified values and keep you posted on the results...

Oh my...just scrolled through the descr_engines, when I saw a developer's note next to the Great Cross. I lol'd so hard.

engine_flammable false ;;; Bob. This'll probably come back as a bug. Please don't fix it as we're not aiming for an endorsement from the KKK

Update on Towers v Siege Engines:
I changed the siege tower HP for small, medium and big to 120, 180, 240, respectively. I also increased the "engine_ignition" value slightly from 0.15 to 0.25. I'm pretty satisfied with the results, sometimes they go up in flames, sometimes they don't.
ALSO the arrow towers in vanilla CoW seem to be bugged. They don't shoot fire arrows at anything, and there's a pretty simple reason for it: the arrow_fiery is linked to the wrong projectile.
If you want your towers to shoot fire arrows, you have to edit the entry in the descr_projectile.txt so it looks like this:

projectile arrow_fiery


flaming arrow
effect arrows_fire_new_set
[...]

Vanilla CoW was:

projectile arrow_fiery

flaming arrowbs3_fire
effect arrow_warhammer_model_set
[...]

[Yuko]

How does the AI usually fare if you guys take out the spawn scripts and whatnot? they don't really seem to expand with me...

[Javesh]

Nice Stuff MC and thanks for the file. Do you happen to have one for the siege engines as well? Maybe as Kahvi to add these to his fixes? These are small tweaks that really should be in the MOD.

Yuko - I myself have not removed the script spawns and I found that when I lowered the cost for units and buildings, then there is always enough units going around and epic battles

[MeatChopper]

Nice Stuff MC and thanks for the file. Do you happen to have one for the siege engines as well? Maybe as Kahvi to add these to his fixes? These are small tweaks that really should be in the MOD.
Yuko - I myself have not removed the script spawns and I found that when I lowered the cost for units and buildings, then there is always enough units going around and epic battles

Agree Yuko, the AI is usually too stupid to get its act together without the spawns; I put them back in after experimenting for a while. And here's my descr_engines, Javesh. Just to put the changes into perspective, 2 cannon balls in the face and the siege tower is gone. Which sometimes creates the problem that both gatehouse towers fire at the siege tower at the start of the battle, instantly destroying it. Most of the time they don't hit anything, so I think it's okay for now, but I will keep tweaking til I find the sweet spot.
If you want them to be more durable you can experiment with your own values a bit, would be nice to get some feedback.

Update: For reasons unknown to me, settlement defenses level 4 include having two cannon turrets per tower - i. e. the gatehouse instantly fires 4 cannon balls at the start of the battle (so don't start a siege battle if you don't have at least 2 siege towers -_-). If I comment out one of the cannon towers, level 4 defenses are no longer selectable in custom battles. I guess I'll have to reduce firepower for the cannons.

Update:
Okay, here are all my tweaked files in one. Just unzip to your Rage of Dark Gods directory. List of changes:

- Added fire arrows to all archers
- Added fire arrows to towers
- Decreased siege tower hit points to 120 (small), 180 (medium), 240 (big) (vanilla CoW was 500 for all)
- Decreased cannon tower damage to 35 (vanilla CoW was 120)
- Increased probability of siege engines catching fire: engine_ignition value is 0.3 (vanilla CoW is 0.15/0.2, vanilla M2TW is 0.3)
- Commented out the flaming bombard shot used by cannon towers

[Yuko]

Nice Stuff MC and thanks for the file. Do you happen to have one for the siege engines as well? Maybe as Kahvi to add these to his fixes? These are small tweaks that really should be in the MOD.

Yuko - I myself have not removed the script spawns and I found that when I lowered the cost for units and buildings, then there is always enough units going around and epic battles

Javesh, could you post your files with the new prices for units and buildings? I wanna keep trying to see if I can make the AI act decently even without the scripts.

@MeatChopper: ty for the files, i'll try it out!

[Javesh]

Awesome MC! Thanks for the file I'll let you know when I have to MOD up and running again

Yuko - After steam combined the to M2TW games I lost all my files and had to do a reinstall hence I lost my EDU with the tweaks :|

They are pretty easy to do though, but time consuming. Just open your EDU and EDB (make backups!) and have a look at your buildings and units. You will easily see what's needs to be tweaked. If I start to play the MOD again and do the tweaks, then I'll be sure to post it here


The highlighted numbers bellow is the build time, cost and upkeep.
Nuln Pikeman
dictionary Nuln_Pikeman
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type Heavy
banner faction banner_nuln_inf
banner holy crusade
soldier Ostland_spearman4, 50, 0, 2, 0.25, 2
officer Ostland_spearman5
officer Ostland_spearman3
officer Ostland_spearman6
mount_effect elephant +10, horse +10, camel +10
attributes sea_faring, can_withdraw, pike, mercenary_unit
formation 0.5, 1.8, 2.4, 2.4, 3, square, phalanx
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 13, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 0, 0.001
stat_pri_attr spear, long_pike
stat_sec 10, 6, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 0, 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 6, 5, 0, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, -2, -5, -1
stat_mental 11, normal, trained
stat_charge_dist 40
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 400
stat_cost 1, 1600, 320, 100, 100, 1600, 4, 1500
armour_ug_levels 4
armour_ug_models Ostland_spearman1
ownership hre, portugal, spain, scotland, sicily, milan, venice, saxons, france, byzantium
info_pic_dir merc
recruit_priority_offset 20

[Vossie]

Awesome MC! Thanks for the file I'll let you know when I have to MOD up and running again

Yuko - After steam combined the to M2TW games I lost all my files and had to do a reinstall hence I lost my EDU with the tweaks :|

They are pretty easy to do though, but time consuming. Just open your EDU and EDB (make backups!) and have a look at your buildings and units. You will easily see what's needs to be tweaked. If I start to play the MOD again and do the tweaks, then I'll be sure to post it here


The highlighted numbers bellow is the build time, cost and upkeep.
Nuln Pikeman
dictionary Nuln_Pikeman
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type Heavy
banner faction banner_nuln_inf
banner holy crusade
soldier Ostland_spearman4, 50, 0, 2, 0.25, 2
officer Ostland_spearman5
officer Ostland_spearman3
officer Ostland_spearman6
mount_effect elephant +10, horse +10, camel +10
attributes sea_faring, can_withdraw, pike, mercenary_unit
formation 0.5, 1.8, 2.4, 2.4, 3, square, phalanx
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 13, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 0, 0.001
stat_pri_attr spear, long_pike
stat_sec 10, 6, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 0, 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 6, 5, 0, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, -2, -5, -1
stat_mental 11, normal, trained
stat_charge_dist 40
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 400
stat_cost 1, 1600, 320, 100, 100, 1600, 4, 1500
armour_ug_levels 4
armour_ug_models Ostland_spearman1
ownership hre, portugal, spain, scotland, sicily, milan, venice, saxons, france, byzantium
info_pic_dir merc
recruit_priority_offset 20

You didn't changed anything when it comes to pricing/upkeep?

[MeatChopper]

I guess it was just a reference for Yuko to see which values need editing.
Personally I reduced and, more importantly, simplified all build/recruit times and costs, as well as upkeep. I. e. there now are 23 different cost values for recruitment and upkeep in my EDU, down from an original 90 or so. Most of the values were only used by a single unit and were almost identical to others, and it made future editing unnecessarily complicated.

[Vossie]

Ah yeah sounds about right. Kinda misunderstood as Javesh stated he lost his old files.

Yeah that works, tho I found it easier to just increase the King's purse for most Factions. ( Currently testing it tho. Have around 10 ongoing campaigns all around turn 40+. My experience so far, it's quiet easy for Human players since they don't really have to struggle with their economy. However the AI does produce alot of stacks and keeps building. Not impressed by their army compositions tho. )

Not sure how your approuch would influence the difficulty of the game, but it does make the game easier.