The Opifex and lesser TW-awards...

[LestaT]

Then you probably have to award 99% of people who have modded and posted mods on TWC. No one was born to be a household name here ( unless there's some shady dealings behind the scenes somewhere )

[Aikanár]

Just streamline how recognising contributions to the site work:
do away with the civitate/citizen/artifex badges. Have one recognition for citizenship. Then move on and create medium awards who are given out for effort and craftsmenship to supplement the popularity awards. Do that for modding as pilot, if it works, expand on it for other areas of the site.

[Bethencourt]

I prefer you start with another group, if it works, which I doubt because everything is very subjective, then do with the modders.
Because now with artifex and opifex you can see how it can be confusing, with just two options. Imagine with five options for example.

[G|I|Sandy]

This is, perhaps, my first post related to the website activities as a citizen. Seeing all the recent changes and the discussions about awards, i feel obliged to share my opinion like all the rest. It is a lengthy post, which i crafted over the past few days, but bear with me. I used words such as "perhaps" quite a lot, so feel free to contribute.

My concern and ideas about the current situation

As it is now, people can't figure out who to give Artifex and Opifex to properly (hence 3 pages of discussions about who is worthy and what are the criteria). I only recently learned CdeC is no more... Now people are suggesting to introduce a new intermediate award that will consume even more precious effort, which could be directed towards modding and other stuff (like figuring out the current awards and process them more regularly). The yearly modding awards for 2012 were only recently conducted... with some categories empty. The best encouragement the website can give to modders is to implement awards that are already in place in a timely manner. I glanced through the categories, and i don't seem to fit into any of them. Where is 3D/2D modeller/texturer, which is a big part of every serious mod? Sound/SFX or Composer or Strategic Gameplay (!?) - how many people work on it? The way it is now, the number of people who actually mod for the categories are different. So we end up having 1-2 people nominated for certain categories and most people have no idea or know no one working on them. The demand for each category is different. I feel the yearly awards system hasn't changed since long ago... hence no improvements. Why not simplify them into more general categories: 5 or 6 just like in the Mod Workshops for each category and perhaps one Others category. And maybe instead of giving one award, give more awards per category. Instead of awarding complete Mods, award modders. How many complete mods are released each year? Rewarding modders of a half-complete mod but with good previews or continuous commitment is likely to motivate modders to finish the mod. Awards should never be the objective. They can motivate and encourage to a certain extent, to some people more than to others, but at the end of the day it is the appreciation of the community that counts. Ideally awards should represent this appreciation of community. Now people argue that awards are based on popularity. Is this bad? I feel it has both sides of the coin. A more popular mod is beneficial and useful to more people. So i say it is a job well done - people enjoy it, hence an hour of modding spent is more productive on some of these popular mods. Such popularity bias however may discourage underrated but talented modders and shift some into modding for popular mods. The current task is to locate underrated but good quality mods and promote them via mod review articles or similar activities, while at the same time awarding people working on traditional popular mods such as TATW and Stainless Steel. We need both.

My suggestion is this:

1) Create a small but effective team with representatives from modding communities of each or most TW titles (Hexagon Council of Modders or something). "Small" for effectiveness, and "from several titles and areas of modding" for fairness and adequacy. These could be term positions, or rotated (i.e. 1 member changes every month for example based on commitment/performance or in a fixed order) to have a performance check/positive pressure.*

2) Concentrate efforts in the near future to figure out/redesign and properly implement current yearly (2013) awards, Artifex and Opifex awards.

3) Give them a time period to a) come up with criteria, b) scan through tons of pages of tutorials, wip mods, previews, minimods, submods, packs, open-source, releases etc... c) identify potential Artifex and Opifex and put them up in a list of potential candidates to promote applications (periodically?).

4) Collaborate with content staff to promote underrated mods and promising mods still in development. (This is probably being done to a certain extent). Increase communication between content (article writers, youtube channels, etc) and modding communities. Ideally, potential/promising mods must be PRed in youtube, interviews/previews published periodically in some sort of "journal". **

5) After all the above consider new awards, if necessary.

* For starters keep it simple, don't overdo with formalities as these people are likely to be active modders. The rotation is necessary to see the team evolve and learn from the previous members and gradually adjust/reassess the criteria/procedures for awards and activities. Hence, even if the initial decisions for criteria and implementation are far from good, they will evolve with time quite likely into a furnished set of rules and consensus among the community. Here comes the role of publicity to communicate the recent awards, publications, and team decisions to the community and hopefully together we will improve. Although finding active modders willing to commit could be an issue. Responsible and experienced people such as Gig, who are well versed in modding and engage in discussions in many parts of the forum, would be ideal.

** This can both increase interest in mods and motivate modders to complete their tasks (i.e. a team wants to get into the next journal article or spotlight -> rep -> extra motivation to some). Now most people will argue that modding for rep is wrong, and i agree with them, but reality is that rep can serve as a vehicle in the modding community. Perhaps getting published itself can be a criteria for a mod team to receive some sort of "promising mod", not a full badge or icon, but some sort of icon that perhaps belongs to the entire mod and can be put up in the main page of the mod... (just a thought, probably too premature at the moment). The importance of this is to link people whose task is to write articles and promote activities on twc with the modding community. As a modder i know it is a tedious job and takes time, and not all modders are good at presenting their work and promoting it. Higher anticipation and awareness of community can put positive pressure on modders to finish their mods and increase commitment. This can also attract interested people (potential new modders) who might help mods with their contributions.

Overall i feel that the criteria should never be clear cut and set in stone. Modding is not like that... it is a passion, not a function of time put = quality and quantity, neither does is relate to popularity. I ask myself "Are awards on twc (a mere icon) worthy of many hours of modding? Do I mod for awards?" and the answer is no. Then I ask myself deep down inside "Would I want to be awarded and does it motivate me to put extra few hours into modding?". The answer is yes. And i believe this is the same case with most of us. Even more so if the process is improved and implemented properly and the modding community gets more "interesting". By interesting i mean more people getting attracted into modding, the desire to come to mod workshops, post there, help others, engage in discussions, get involved in site activities, post your works, see people's appreciations in form of simple posts, and as icing on the cake an award of some sort.

Sandy

[Bethencourt]

Sandy, in general I like what you say about awards in the hidden part.

I have to read the rest of it.

In the point 2) you say Artifex and Opifex awards, as if they were yearly. I do not understand what you mean in that point.

About the idea in general, it requires a committed long term group of modders for every game, I doubt this can be done, modders are more intersted in modding it self than in committees where the political strugle is inevitable. I can see a shadow of the CdC here, how many active modders were involved?

[G|I|Sandy]

Bethencourt,

I meant all the current awards: 1) yearly mod awards, 2) Artifex, 3) Opifex.

I agree with you that it is hard to find the right people. Modders mod in their free time or do other non TW related stuff. However, like i said, if it is going to increase interest in modding, attract new modders, and increase communication between different branches of twc, then i would say it is worth the effort. Finding people is an issue. For example i myself always find it time-consuming to do simple things like updating my sig and keep up with latest developments on twc. Perhaps we don't need to do anything. Modders will continue modding, some slowly and inconsistently, some will stop, some new people will come, as it always has been, with or without awards.

Sandy

[Taiji]

I do have my doubts that comments like these will help much if the intent is to motivate administration to participate\contribute in this discussion. If you deem my participation as unhelpful or otherwise disturbing kindly say so and I will leave you to your deliberations.

You either see the point of the joke or you don't. I'm sorry if you were somehow made to feel unwelcome by my humorously cynical description.

You're a modder, so you're welcome to be a part of the discussion, as far as I am concerned. And you're a Hex member too, which might mean you can offer some insight into the reasoning behind making site admin more bling heavy than modding.

But frankly it was disturbing to see you act as if the quality of your effort earned you those modding awards, when that's probably absolute, complete and utter bollocks.

Winning an award for it at the annual modding awards is simply the icing on the cake for a job well done.

It's like you're saying just the award winners and noone else did a modding job well, don't you think?

[Gigantus]

Apology\explanation accepted.

It's like you're saying just the award winners and noone else did a modding job well, don't you think?

I corrected you, but it was anyhow meant to convey that winning an award (at least for me) is an acknowledgement of my effort (simply the cherry on top?), it's not the goal. I would be surprised to actually meet a modder with an attitude like the one you implied with your statement.

[Taiji]

The point being that TWC doesn't exactly hand out medals for a job well done. I've seen trivial work and broken work get awards, they're no measure of quality or effort. I guessed it's probably a mistake, and that you didn't mean to say you got an award for a doing a job well. Because I think you've probably observed what I've observed for yourself, and that's why it's disturbing to see you say it as if you don't know better in the first place.

[Gigantus]

Willful misinterpretation is one of the reasons why I don't participate in the D&D - can't see where 'cherry on the top' can mean anything else in that context but an acknowledgement of work done (well). I responded to your first statement about my 'icing\cherry on top' a long time ago. So what's the hang up?

It won't be popular if it isn't well done. Or at least acceptable. But I do agree, eventually it works out to be a popularity contest of those that are well done.

I missed something else again?

[Taiji]

Willful misinterpretation is one of the reasons why I don't participate in the D&D - can't see where 'cherry on the top' can mean anything else in that context but an acknowledgement of work done (well). I responded to your first statement about my 'icing\cherry on top' a long time ago. So what's the hang up?

I missed something else again?

'Willful misinterpretation'? 'Attitude like the one you implied in your statement'? It seems to me you're just hostile because you don't like my negative opinion of what you've said.

Personally I like being held to account for stuff I've posted, it helps me improve my written communication skills. But being held to account for imagined stuff isn't so useful.

[Bethencourt]

I think Gigantus posting has been very balanced and not necessarily opposed to what you say. Awards have a limited efficiency in relation to reward modding work, but what other things can be done to improve the result? By the experience it seems to be difficult and maybe it the path that some propose does not match with the nature of the awards and requires means that do not exist.

[Taiji]

I think with M2TW one thing that is appropriate anyway, and might help a lot, would be to acknowledge the success of the two more popular mods by giving out medals specifically for the modders of those mods.

So have Third Age: Total War modding awards, and have SS modding awards, separate from Medieval 2: Total War, the game they eclipse in terms of popularity on this site.

[Bethencourt]

I have been, only once, in an awards committee and the rule is that there are no rules. Quite pirate, isn't it? But said like that sounds worse that it could be, because the committee created for every contest has more flexiblity to take decisions that may work, or not, depending on the modding actuality. So now what you propose can be used by the next committee or not depending on the wise discretionality of its future members. So everything is very flexible but also very random. Now is changing this is better than keeping it this way? If we decided to give it some rules, do you think they should go to the level of detail of the one you propose in every game? which organization should be behind all this? A permanent committee to decide the changes, listen to proposals and so? a permanent committee for every game?

As far as I know this depends on the administrators, so what can be decided here for the long term?

[Taiji]

That's a really good point. I guess use site statistics as an initial guide.

As a side note perhaps the site could provide direct links to the most popular mod forums.

Medieval II: Total War General Discussion(39 Viewing)
Discuss Medieval II: Total War and its expansion, Kingdoms, here.

Could become 3 links:

Medieval II: Total War General Discussion(39 Viewing)
- Stainless Steel Discussion(35 Viewing)
- Third Age: Total War Discussion(68 Viewing)

So in cases where it's obvious a mod is getting a lot more activity than other mods, and even vanilla, show them off.

Perhaps if a mod is consistently represented over a period of a year or more and there's enough modding activity to warrant it, then give them an award ceremony.

Also it's not really just a matter of popular mods meaning more votes, they can often mean easier work, for having so many testers.