Nihilism - an unhealthy, self-destructive philosophical school?

[Kyriakos]

Nihilism isn't a philosophy. For starters no movement in thought which doesn't have a Greek name can be an actual school of Philosophy

On another note: maybe the closest to concurrent 'nihilism' would be Diogenes of Athens (and Corinth), but he was pretty dumb- and a troll - next to the main philosophers of his day (i don't mean PlatoSocrates, btw, i mean Anaxagoras, Protagoras, Zeno, Democritos and so on ).

[Taiji]

Nihilism isn't a philosophy. For starters no movement in thought which doesn't have a Greek name can be an actual school of Philosophy

On another note: maybe the closest to concurrent 'nihilism' would be Diogenes of Athens (and Corinth), but he was pretty dumb- and a troll - next to the main philosophers of his day (i don't mean PlatoSocrates, btw, i mean Anaxagoras, Protagoras, Zeno, Democritos and so on ).

I loled so hard my sides hurt. +rep

It is latin, but it means nothing. Nothingism, right? Yeah, definitely a dumb troll.

Basically it's dishonestly plastered onto people who reject someone's claim. As if the rejection of a claim is a philosophical position.

[Kyriakos]

Thank you

Btw, it is said that when Zeno presented to Diogenes his paradox of Achilles and the tortoise, Diogenes replied by standing up and walking away
(i suppose so as to signify that he could move freely, unlike in the paradox. But the meaning of those paradoxa was to show the gap between the realm of the senses- where we do move freely- and the realm of thought, where limits are also as real as ideas of non-stop or infinite progression)

[Hakkapeliitta]

I notice, in my past years in TWC, that a lot of our members are actually Nihilists (either admitted or expressed similar thought). I wonder, how our fellow Nihilists ever able to live a healthy, meaningful life if you guys already think life has no purpose? I mean, if Nihilists think life has no purpose, why not shoot yourself now and end this meaningless life, but instead choose to live like a living corpse?

Are there really such nihilists here, or do you consider people who don't find any higher spiritual meaning in life as nihilists? In my experience, theists who consider life without religion as ultimately nihilist are themselves the ones who tend toward nihilism.

[Denny Crane!]

Nihilism isn't a philosophy. For starters no movement in thought which doesn't have a Greek name can be an actual school of Philosophy

On another note: maybe the closest to concurrent 'nihilism' would be Diogenes of Athens (and Corinth), but he was pretty dumb- and a troll - next to the main philosophers of his day (i don't mean PlatoSocrates, btw, i mean Anaxagoras, Protagoras, Zeno, Democritos and so on ).

I'm sure that was ironic. I hope it was. I'm sure that whistling noise emoticon made it so.

[The word of Satan]

To be fair, much of what the nihilists have said have made their arguments debunked...

enjoyment was the mainstream reason as why nihilists continue life... however don't reasons carry a meaning? something that carries a meaning is not nothing... in fact nihilism would assume no ability to reason. You believe in no morality due to objective reasoning rather than subjective reasoning... objectively... if nothing can be right or wrong, then nothing must be true, and if "nothing is true = true"... the statement is fallacious as it clearly contradicts itself by "this statement is the opposite to this other statement which is in fact our answer... also as a subjective argument... if nothing is true in this realm... how do you explain thoughts, feelings, tastes, opinions etc... You'd argue there is no purpose for them, but based on what? From a scale of many reasons for them having a reason, it sorta gives many reasons why they do have meaning themselves... and I have read many comments from nihilists who do speak as though these things do have meaning... Am I completely mind-ed by you lot... yes. You truly make no sense... Okay so we don't have a clear answer on a lot of stuff... this doesn't mean that just because something doesn't happen to have a clear reason for it being there, doesn't hold any explaination we don't know of... My question basically... can't you get your head around what's around you? I'm getting at... there isn't nothing... there is clearly something... there are emotions... there are calculations and all sorts that help us life well... if we were all nihilists... how would we even get anything done? Just mad.

Is there a greater meaning to life... there's no reason why it can't be true either... I am unsure of this stuff... but there's no reason for me to say no to everything. MAD PEOPLE!

Does make me laugh though ngl.

[Taiji]

To be fair, much of what the nihilists have said have made their arguments debunked...

enjoyment was the mainstream reason as why nihilists continue life... however don't reasons carry a meaning? something that carries a meaning is not nothing... in fact nihilism would assume no ability to reason. You believe in no morality due to objective reasoning rather than subjective reasoning... objectively... if nothing can be right or wrong, then nothing must be true, and if "nothing is true = true"... the statement is fallacious as it clearly contradicts itself by "this statement is the opposite to this other statement which is in fact our answer... also as a subjective argument... if nothing is true in this realm... how do you explain thoughts, feelings, tastes, opinions etc... You'd argue there is no purpose for them, but based on what? From a scale of many reasons for them having a reason, it sorta gives many reasons why they do have meaning themselves... and I have read many comments from nihilists who do speak as though these things do have meaning... Am I completely mind-ed by you lot... yes. You truly make no sense... Okay so we don't have a clear answer on a lot of stuff... this doesn't mean that just because something doesn't happen to have a clear reason for it being there, doesn't hold any explaination we don't know of... My question basically... can't you get your head around what's around you? I'm getting at... there isn't nothing... there is clearly something... there are emotions... there are calculations and all sorts that help us life well... if we were all nihilists... how would we even get anything done? Just mad.

Is there a greater meaning to life... there's no reason why it can't be true either... I am unsure of this stuff... but there's no reason for me to say no to everything. MAD PEOPLE!

Does make me laugh though ngl.

It's not that the nihilist is claiming anything. Take existential nihilism. The position that there's just no reason to accept that the meanings we associate with the existence of something can be objective.

So if you don't believe that life has a meaning which you haven't created or adopted from someone else then you're an existential nihilist.

If you believe life has an objective meaning which you know or can one day discover then you're... 'wishful' is a nice way to put it, but I prefer 'deluded'.

And it doesn't matter which flavor of nihilism. At the bottom of it is someone making a crazy claim, and then calling those who reject it nihilists.

By the way, I take it from your name that you're a christian. Are you a christian? (I'm a weak atheist, to be fair)

[The word of Satan]

It's not that the nihilist is claiming anything. Take existential nihilism. The position that there's just no reason to accept that the meanings we associate with the existence of something can be objective.

So if you don't believe that life has a meaning which you haven't created or adopted from someone else then you're an existential nihilist.

If you believe life has an objective meaning which you know or can one day discover then you're... 'wishful' is a nice way to put it, but I prefer 'deluded'.

And it doesn't matter which flavor of nihilism. At the bottom of it is someone making a crazy claim, and then calling those who reject it nihilists.

By the way, I take it from your name that you're a christian. Are you a christian? (I'm a weak atheist, to be fair)

You are claiming there is nothing... there is a scale...

from Something - to unsure - to nothing... Do you see this? I'm at unsure because something means we have evidence... nothing means we know for sure it's nothing, which we don't, yes there is no way for sure (except unless something came along that there is something) that there is nothing... but our intuition reflects meaning in general... we have to be taught otherwise... we were not born nihilists, we were born with a curious nature to explore whatever it is that fits ourselves.

I'm an agnostic atheist. nihilism is unnecessarily further down the line... it's like (as an example) saying there will be no way to fly (before flying came to be) It's like many things in that realm... how can you say... yeap defo nothing... I know this... it's just not true that you know it's nothing... and I don't believe that "nothing is true" it's a logical fallacy which I explained... I don't know what branch of nihilism you are but since you overlooked that statement I'm guessing you do not deny the universe... but as for purpose of the universe you reject there is any what so ever... why the universe really needs some meaning isn't of a concern to me... I don't look at life that way, there's no reason to that suites me... I wouldn't say that it's a meaningless universe, life is beautiful, full of wonderful things for me to do and please... I couldn't call it nothing... there's too much to admire worth a 1000 words a piece. If I've said something you've disagreed with here, you're probably not a true nihilist. That term "high spirit" must come from somewhere?? lol

In all without proof... something could be true up to a scaled percentage between 1-99% if we're talking about universal (less towards imagination)... otherwise it's can be like saying you understand the universe.

Nietzsche didn't believe in a natural cause of justice and forgiveness either, he asserts revenge for the most part in his work, people make mistakes, I think utilitarianism has been the way forward, might not be perfect but it's more in the right direction.

I'm an agnostic atheist baby, well cuz there is no evidence and there is not much point looking deep into it all, really it's too big for anyone to have a real good understanding of how things came to be. <3

[Maiar93]

That last part is mainly about things we will never be able to know, such as if there is a god. It also kinda matters what you mean by "god" - some mean a mysterious force in the universe and some mean a personal, intervening god.

[The word of Satan]

That last part is mainly about things we will never be able to know, such as if there is a god. It also kinda matters what you mean by "god" - some mean a mysterious force in the universe and some mean a personal, intervening god.

Yeap... I've made one plausibility for such a being's existence on a post but I mean if you read further into the conversation it gets there... just if that may interest you, I'd like to hear others opinions on that aswell... if you like that sorta thing


http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...sustainability

[Taiji]

You are claiming there is nothing... there is a scale...

from Something - to unsure - to nothing... Do you see this? I'm at unsure because something means we have evidence... nothing means we know for sure it's nothing, which we don't, yes there is no way for sure (except unless something came along that there is something) that there is nothing... but our intuition reflects meaning in general... we have to be taught otherwise... we were not born nihilists, we were born with a curious nature to explore whatever it is that fits ourselves.

I'm an agnostic atheist. nihilism is unnecessarily further down the line... it's like (as an example) saying there will be no way to fly (before flying came to be) It's like many things in that realm... how can you say... yeap defo nothing... I know this... it's just not true that you know it's nothing... and I don't believe that "nothing is true" it's a logical fallacy which I explained... I don't know what branch of nihilism you are but since you overlooked that statement I'm guessing you do not deny the universe... but as for purpose of the universe you reject there is any what so ever... why the universe really needs some meaning isn't of a concern to me... I don't look at life that way, there's no reason to that suites me... I wouldn't say that it's a meaningless universe, life is beautiful, full of wonderful things for me to do and please... I couldn't call it nothing... there's too much to admire worth a 1000 words a piece. If I've said something you've disagreed with here, you're probably not a true nihilist. That term "high spirit" must come from somewhere?? lol

In all without proof... something could be true up to a scaled percentage between 1-99% if we're talking about universal (less towards imagination)... otherwise it's can be like saying you understand the universe.

Nietzsche didn't believe in a natural cause of justice and forgiveness either, he asserts revenge for the most part in his work, people make mistakes, I think utilitarianism has been the way forward, might not be perfect but it's more in the right direction.

I'm an agnostic atheist baby, well cuz there is no evidence and there is not much point looking deep into it all, really it's too big for anyone to have a real good understanding of how things came to be. <3

The question is this; do you believe there is any intrinsic meaning to life?

Your answer was no - Welcome to the religiously arranged Nihilist Club.

It's just like the religiously arranged Atheist Club, where we get stereotyped with a negation for rejecting a claim

[The word of Satan]

A belief is just a matter of opinion, it usually has no absolute reflection on the natural world, whether the universe has an intrinsic value is beyond anyone's capability of knowing or control, so no I don't place myself within a group of people who think they have the answer for sure; nothing... just because I don't have a firm answer on what I think may have meaning, doesn't make me a nihilist but rather; open to life. But if that being an unserious response, then sure I guess I am

[Himster]

just because I don't have a firm answer on what I think may have meaning, doesn't make me a nihilist

Most religious people disagree with us on that.

[The word of Satan]

Most religious people disagree with us on that.

Does it really matter what anyone thinks who is going to call you a liar at the beginning of the conversation? But not to be too harsh on them, proposing that there is no morality in the world is a pretty big deal to a lot of people's world view and doesn't fully add up with mostly mammals (out of all different animals) possibility many birds too in many ways... hence I'm not part of the crew. We are caring in nature... it takes an over-step of the selfish-gene, some teaching or a crossed wire in the brain to put us away from that idea... terrorists don't grow on trees ya know?

[Himster]

Does it really matter what anyone thinks who is going to call you a liar at the beginning of the conversation?

Yes, it matters. It's not as simple as accusations of lying, it's a difference of opinion on something far more fundamental and all encompassing than that: epistemology. When someone believes morals to be knowable, they implicitly assert that everyone "knows" their morals, they can't help but view the world that way. They're not accusing us of lying, but from their point of view our position is inseparable from a nihilist's position, they view our non-stance as a negative assertion as their's is a positive assertion.

We are caring in nature... it takes an over-step of the selfish-gene, some teaching or a crossed wire in the brain to put us away from that idea... terrorists don't grow on trees ya know?

Humans a paradoxical entities, we fight for peace, we love to hate, we look inward (imagination etc.) for escapism, we do so much to help the less fortunate in one place, while the less fortunate in other places: we kill. It's tempting to oversimplify what makes us this way: like religious people saying we're just a race fallen from grace, or the ontological-naturalists saying it's our just biological imperatives and instincts........ it's folly and narrow mindedness.

[The word of Satan]

Yes, it matters. It's not as simple as accusations of lying, it's a difference of opinion on something far more fundamental and all encompassing than that: epistemology. When someone believes morals to be knowable, they implicitly assert that everyone "knows" their morals, they can't help but view the world that way. They're not accusing us of lying, but from their point of view our position is inseparable from a nihilist's position, they view our non-stance as a negative assertion as their's is a positive assertion.



Humans a paradoxical entities, we fight for peace, we love to hate, we look inward (imagination etc.) for escapism, we do so much to help the less fortunate in one place, while the less fortunate in other places: we kill. It's tempting to oversimplify what makes us this way: like religious people saying we're just a race fallen from grace, or the ontological-naturalists saying it's our just biological imperatives and instincts........ it's folly and narrow mindedness.

Pejoratives, never the less it doesn't answer why there is no morality... I see more evidence for than against... there are some general facts of life such as the struggle for life and survival of the fittest, but they're forced by surroundings than individual will... also it's the rich who do the dirty of starting wars, but they want no play in it so obviously stay away from it and get others to do it for a living wage, and they're trained into it so the natural condition has been altered, it would be unfair to say it was purely out of "one's own will"... also scarcity of resources, limitations for the good to stand against government action... You know this morning my bastard of a cat scratched me on the leg... I was about to kick him, but then I couldn't do it. So just as that for an example for a given foundation of morality... My cats cool though ^^

But yeah, from where I stand... There's no self-assertion in nihilism too... from what you just said you obviously can identify things that are wrong... but then you say something else that doesn't add up to that... see why I think you people are crazy? crazily funny... AND I LIKE IT.

[Visna]

Pejoratives, never the less it doesn't answer why there is no morality... I see more evidence for than against... there are some general facts of life such as the struggle for life and survival of the fittest, but they're forced by surroundings than individual will... also it's the rich who do the dirty of starting wars, but they want no play in it so obviously stay away from it and get others to do it for a living wage, and they're trained into it so the natural condition has been altered, it would be unfair to say it was purely out of "one's own will"... also scarcity of resources, limitations for the good to stand against government action... You know this morning my bastard of a cat scratched me on the leg... I was about to kick him, but then I couldn't do it. So just as that for an example for a given foundation of morality... My cats cool though ^^

But yeah, from where I stand... There's no self-assertion in nihilism too... from what you just said you obviously can identify things that are wrong... but then you say something else that doesn't add up to that... see why I think you people are crazy? crazily funny... AND I LIKE IT.

Thinking that morality is subjective doesn't make morality non-existant or arbitrary.

[The word of Satan]

Thinking that morality is subjective doesn't make morality non-existant or arbitrary.

I agree as well baby!

[Taiji]

If you think morality is subjective, you're a Moral™ nihilist

[The word of Satan]

If you think morality is subjective, you're a Moral™ nihilist

that's what you think GET IT? DOUBLE MEANING! xD *chuckles*