[UPD 20 AUG 16] Preview: Dwarves of Erebor

[MOS-Lukas-Dwarf]

The Goats go against lore and look like something from world of warcraft... cheap and childish

[ArchBasedBishop]

Yes yes, spiders can be added as well. Ents probably will be added too.
Two types of wargs planned: Isengard wargs and Gundabad wargs.

Awesome. I don't think we understand each other though. In the Hobbit movie, there were Gundabad wolves/wargs/whatever that didn't have riders on them. So my idea was that you guys would keep the warhounds as units but instead, have wolves/warges with Orc handlers in place of the dogs and human handlers.

Just a suggestion.

[ArchBasedBishop]

I think it'll be cool that every faction has some sort of unique Calvary unit. For instance, Mordor could have these...



The Dwarves could have those goats... Harad has the Mumaks and Half Trolls... Khand has the chariots and charioteers...

I know it's a lot but these are just suggestions for a possible sub-mod, maybe. These units could add a unique feel to the mod.

[MOS-Lukas-Dwarf]

That unit would be better as a Monstrous creature kind of unit, how could gondorian cavalry fight that xD Something similar to how elephants in Attila and Mumakil in TATW would be more appropriate... game balancing, I know Mr J mentioned these as a unit for Mordor, Gorgoroth beasts or something of that ilk... cool idea

[Mr.Jox]

Yes I mentioned this as an idea but I didn't say this will be included.
You guys want so much and want mod be released asap...

[Havelock Vetinari]

well, all these monstrous/cavalry units can be added in a submod, i think there are some more important things.

[throneror]

Yes I mentioned this as an idea but I didn't say this will be included.
You guys want so much and want mod be released asap...

Do that much we will wait!

[Mr.Jox]

Do that much we will wait!

But if we do as much as possible nothing will last at next releases after 1.0

[MOS-Lukas-Dwarf]

I dont think many of us mind waiting, I'm gonna wait till at least 2 updates after release before playing. Take your time

[ArchBasedBishop]

Yes I mentioned this as an idea but I didn't say this will be included.
You guys want so much and want mod be released asap...

Lol. Sorry if some of us come off as a bit anal but we're just so excited about the mod! Take your time, do what you think is best or what's possible and good luck! Awesome work!

[Sahlor]

The Goats go against lore and look like something from world of warcraft... cheap and childish

I am flattered that you can't answer to my points directly, but instead disregard all my arguments and simply restate the opinion I commented against in the first place :3

[Grimnir]

Chill. Maybe smb will make submod. But have more important things to do than goats.

[Privatecamping]

I am flattered that you can't answer to my points directly, but instead disregard all my arguments and simply restate the opinion I commented against in the first place :3

I agree with Grimnir. Someone who realy wants goats will make a submod ant than just subscribe to it in attila workshop and play with that unit. It is that simple

[MOS-Lukas-Dwarf]

Yeah but i'm not here to argue, it goes against lore and that's why i don't like them, as said above someone will definitely make a sub-mod for you and your sheep herd

[Sahlor]

Yeah but i'm not here to argue, it goes against lore and that's why i don't like them, as said above someone will definitely make a sub-mod for you and your sheep herd

It is not "against lore", nor is it "lore faithful". It is an artistic and thematic choice by the designers, just like the addition and depiction of all the things that were not specifically stated or described by Tolkien, like almoat everything in other words.
I think dwarfs shouldn't have mounts, maybe only the generals and some very very elite troops, that is not my point It is just really frustrating how casually and misplaced people use the same old "against lore" argument, without even thinking about the meaning of this phrase.
If you like the goats, great, if you hate them, great. But don't justify your opinion based on wether it is lore faithful or not. The movies are not a religious code, they are an adaptation

[Mr.Jox]

It is not "against lore", nor is it "lore faithful". It is an artistic and thematic choice by the designers, just like the addition and depiction of all the things that were not specifically stated or described by Tolkien, like almoat everything in other words.
I think dwarfs shouldn't have mounts, maybe only the generals and some very very elite troops, that is not my point It is just really frustrating how casually and misplaced people use the same old "against lore" argument, without even thinking about the meaning of this phrase.
If you like the goats, great, if you hate them, great. But don't justify your opinion based on wether it is lore faithful or not. The movies are not a religious code, they are an adaptation

We base our mod not only on films but books too. In this case Lukas used "lore-against" word in meaning it was not mentioned in books then why should it be in the mod, as far as I understand his words.
Yes our politic is to use lore as logic content and films as visual content of the mod and in this case dwarves in lore can't be mounted battle units (I believe they could ride ponies but not to use them inbattle coz of short arms, average small height (dwarf+pony) and other logical reasons. Yes in theory possible but functionally it sucks).

[Bercor]

Well, Tolkien states in his essay "Of Dwarves and Men" that the Dwarves rellied on their mannish allies for cavalry. That and their general dislike for mounting makes me think they wouldn't have a goat force.

[Ngugi]

There's no 'think' in this. They did not ride on goats. The movies made that up, end of story IRL, and if the desire is to make a game based on Tolkien's legandrium and not the PJ movies legendarium.
As Bercor refere to, Dwarves allied to Men because Men could provide something that the Dwarves did not have: riders. Dwarves did not held animals of any kind.

In the battles that followed the Dwarves were outnumbered, and though they were the most redoubtable warriors of all the Speaking Peoples they were glad to make alliance with Men. ... These things the Dwarves amended in return for one great service that Men could offer. They were tamers of beasts and had learned the mastery of horses, and many were skilled and fearless riders (29).
- HoME 12; Of Dwarves and Men; Relations of the Longbeard Dwarves and Men


29. No Dwarf would ever mount a horse willingly, nor did any ever harbour animals, not even dogs.
- HoME 12; Of Dwarves and Men; Notes

Even when pointing at the one instance in the Hobbit when ponies are used by the companions of Thorin's company (that in at least 2 of 3 occasions are borrowed them), the novel leave it as a custom solution for them. Indeed when Dain's army is call to in a hurry deliver the besieged at Erebor, what do they do? Their army do a forced march, on foot. Not a mounted Dwarf to be seen, on any kind of beast of burden.
And no example of Dwarven riders elsewhere to be found either.


Point at end is, if the developers say they want to make a [mainly] movie based game, then the argument that there should be no mounted Dwarves based on lore is irrelevant.
While if developers say that they want to make a [mainly] book based game, then the argument that there should be no mounted Dwarves based on lore is valid and solid.

[MOS-Lukas-Dwarf]

Honestly i'm not sure why you're mad, a sub-mod will be made so whats the problem?! Didn't mean to crush any dreams :s

P.S. I watch the TV adaptation for Game of Thrones, I quite understand an adaptation... Logically the goats annoy me for reasons Mr.J pointed out, i'm not having a go at Peter Jackson.

[Sahlor]

Yeah sorry, that was quite heated from my part :$
I did have another question, concerning dwarfs and minerals. Iron Hill dwarfs will probably have iron equipment, but what about Erebor? Since their main treasure is gold, will they have some visual reference to that? What about the other dwarf houses, do they have some sort of characteristic element, lice copper or wood or something? Will there be any Mithril in the game?