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    Alkar's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    Quote Originally Posted by Berem View Post
    I would like to see quotes from J.R.R. Tolkien himself, or his talented profiteer, Christopher that confirm what you are saying about the dwarves. Also you seem to have a grudge against dwarves (I am not a small person, do not get me wrong), although Durin's folk was seen by their creator (Tolkien) as a noble race, and dwarves in general could be just "Good", "Evil", or honourable. To my knowledge the greatest in sheer size and grand colossal structures city ever build in Arda was Khazad-dûm; the walls of Moria, as it was latter called, were impregnable, were they not? Even the dwarves of late crafted an impregnable mithril gate for Minas Tirith after Sauron lost all his powers and was just a spirit of malice.
    Well, if you would like Tolkien specifically stated that Dwarves were not particularly evil (as a racial classification, like Orks), and only Men and Elves sometimes them out to be always evil (they were of course evil about certain things). The Dwarves of Durin for example are usually honourable enough. At any rate, there certainly were very greed selfish Dwarves, sometimes because of the accursed dragon-hoards and the influence of the Rings of Power, but a lot of the time plain lust and evil:

    Then the Dwarves looked upon the work of their fathers, and they beheld with wonder the shining jewel of Fëanor; and they were filled with a great lust to possess them, and carry them off to their far homes in the mountains.

    But Thingol perceived their hearts, and saw well that desiring the Silmaril they sought but apretext and fair cloak for their true intent; and in his wrath and pride he gave no heed to his peril, but spoke to them inscorn, saying: 'How do ye of uncouth race dare to demand aught of me, Elu Thingol, Lord of Beleriand, whose lifebegan by the waters of Cuiviénen years uncounted ere the fathers of the stunted people awoke?' And standing tall andproud among them he bade them with shameful words be gone unrequited out of Doriath.Then the lust of the Dwarves was kindled to rage by the words of the King; and they rose up about him, and laidhands on him, and slew him as he stood. So died in the deep places of Menegroth Elwë Singollo, King of Doriath, whoalone of all the Children of Ilúvatar was joined with one of the Ainur; and he who, alone of the Forsaken Elves, hadseen the light of the Trees of Valinor, with his last sight gazed upon the Silmaril.

    They were unsurpassed in works of stone:

    But in the Third Age something of their old character and power is still glimpsed, if already a little dimmed: these are the descendants of the Naugrim of the Elde rDays, in whose hearts still burns the ancient fire of Aulë the Smith, and the embers smoulder of their long grudge against the Elves; and in whose hands still lives the skill in works of stone that none have surpassed.

    They were not particularly evil:

    But they are not evil by nature, and few everserved the Enemy of free will, whatever the tales of Men may have alleged. For Men of old lusted aftertheir wealth and the work of their hands, and there has been enmity between the races.But in the Third Age dose friendship still was found in many places between Men and Dwarves ...

    The gate of Erebor could not be taken, if that means when it was defended or if it was its strength against rams is not known:

    At the same time as the great armies besieged Minas Tirith a host of the allies of Sauron that had longthreatened the borders of King Brand crossed the River Carnen, and Brand was driven back to Dale.There he had the aid of the Dwarves of Erebor; and there was a great battle at the Mountain's feet. It lasted three days, but in the end both King Brand and King Dáin Ironfoot were slain, and the Easterlings had the victory. But they could not take the Gate and many, both Dwarves and Men, took refuge in Erebor, and there withstood a siege.

    The Dwarves were never outmatched in the tempering of steel (achieving greater toughness of steel for swords and other bladed weapons):

    A warlike race of old were all the Naugrim, and they would fight fiercely against whomsoever aggrieved them: servants of Melkor, or Eldar, or Avari, or wild beasts, or not seldom their own kin, Dwarves of other mansions and lordships. Their smithcraft indeed the Sindar soon learned of them; yet in the tempering of steel alone of all crafts the Dwarves were never outmatched even by the Noldor, and in the making of mail of linked rings, which was first contrived by the smiths of Belegost, their work had no rival.

    Telchar was skilled in imbuing metaphysical properties into objects using the power of Runes:

    The Helm of Hador was given into Thingol's hands. That helm was made of grey steel adorned withgold, and on it were graven runes of victory. A power was in it that guarded any who wore it from wound ordeath, for the sword that hewed it was broken, and the dart that smote it sprang aside. It was wrought byTelchar, the smith of Nogrod, whose works were renowned. It had a visor (after the manner of those that theDwarves used in their forges for the shielding of their eyes), and the face of one that wore it struck fear intothe hearts of all beholders, but was itself guarded from dart and fire.

    The Dwarves learned much from the Elves:

    But though either people loved skill and were eager to learn, no great love was there between them; for the Dwarves were secret and quick to resentment, and Caranthir was haughty and scarce concealed his scorn for the unloveliness of the Naugrim, and his people followed their lord. Nevertheless since both peoples feared and hated Morgoth they made alliance, and had of it great profit; for the Naugrim learned many secrets of craft in those days, so that the smiths and masons of Nogrod and Belegost became renowned among their kin, and when the Dwarves began again to journey into Beleriand all the traffic of the dwarf-mines passed first through the hands of Caranthir, and thus great riches came to him.

    General statement (this most likely implies that they were taught somewhat by Aule, and that is why they were skilled from the start):

    But the Naugrim gave their friendship more readily to the Noldor in after days than to any others of Elves and Men, because of their love and reverence for Aulë; and the gems of the Noldor they praised above all other wealth. In the darkness ofArda already the Dwarves wrought great works, for even from the first days of their Fathers they had marvellous skill with metals and with stone; but in that ancient time iron and copper they loved to work, rather than silver or gold.

    The knife of Telchar (Angrist, signifying "Iron-Cleaver"), the greatest Dwarvish smith, is very potent:

    ThenLúthien rising forbade the slaying of Curufin; but Beren despoiled him of his gear and weapons, and took his knife,sheathless by his side; iron it would cleave as if it were green wood.

    The sword of Telchar (Narsil, signifying "Red and White Flame") was very potent:

    Against Aeglos the spear of Gil-galad none could stand; and the sword of Elendil filled Orcs and Men with fear, for it shone with the light of the sun and of the moon, and it was named Narsil.

    But Narsil was broken and its light extinguished, and it has not yet been forged again.

    But before all went Aragorn with the Flame of the West, Andúril like a new fire kindled, Narsil re-forged as deadly as of old; and upon his brow was the Star of Elendil.

    But even as the orc flung down the truncheon and swept out his scimitar, Andúril came down upon his helm. There was a flash like flame and the helm burst asunder. The orc fell with cloven head.

    There was a guard of orcs crouching in the shadows behind the great door-posts towering on either side, but the gates were shattered and cast down. Aragorn smote to the ground the captain that stood in his path, and the rest fled in terror of his wrath.

    Charging from the side, they hurled themselves upon the wild men. Andúril rose fell, gleamingwith white fire. A shout went up from wall and tower: ‘Andúril! Andúril goes to war. The Blade thatwas Broken shines again!’Dismayed the rammers let fall the trees and turned to fight; but the wall of their shields wasbroken as by a lightning-stroke, and they were swept away, hewn down, or cast over the Rock into thestony stream below. The orc-archers shot wildly and then fled.

    The Nauglamir also has a bit of power and is very beautiful (largely due to the Valinorean jewels and the Silmaril):

    And in that time was made for him the Nauglamír, the Necklace of the Dwarves, most renowned of their works in the Elder Days. It was a carcanet of gold, and set therein were gems uncounted from Valinor; but it had a power within it so that it rested lightly on its wearer as a strand of flax, and whatsoever neck it clasped it sat always with grace and
    loveliness.


    Húrin made no answer to the King, but drew forth from beneath his cloak that one thing which he had taken with him out of Nargothrond; and that was no lesser treasure than the Nauglamír, the Necklace of the Dwarves, that was made for Finrod Felagund long years before by the craftsmen of Nogrod and Belegost, most famed of all their works in the Elder Days, and prized by Finrod while he lived above all the treasures of Nargothrond.

    But then we have these statements of Elves:

    In Eregion the craftsmen of the Gwaith-i-Mírdain, the People of the Jewel-smiths, surpassed in cunning all thathave ever wrought, save only Fëanor himself; and indeed greatest in skill among them was Celebrimbor, son ofCurufin, who was estranged from his father and remained in Nargothrond when Celegorm and Curufin were drivenforth, as is told in the Quenta Silmarillion.

    Now Thingol had in Menegroth deep armouries filled with great wealth of weapons: metal wrought like fishes' mail an shining like water in the moon; swords and axes, shields an helms, wrought by Telchar himself or by his master Gamil Zirak the old, or by elven-wrights more skilful still. For some things he had received in gift that came out of Valinor and were wrought by Fëanor in his mastery, than whom no craftsman was greater in all the days of the world.

    And as their friendship grew he would at times go and dwell as guest in the deep mansions of Nogrod or Belegost. There he learned much of metalwork, and came to great skill therein; and he devised ametal as hard as the steel of the Dwarves, but so malleable that he could make it thin and supple; and yet it remained resistant to all blades and darts. He named it galvorn, for it was black and shining like jet, and he was clad in it whenever he went abroad.

    The Elves were taught by Aule himself:

    Aulë has might little less than Ulmo. His lordship is over all the substances of which Arda is made. In the beginning he wrought much in fellowship with Manwë and Ulmo; and the fashioning of all lands was his labour. He is a smith and a master of all crafts, and he delights in works of skill, however small, as much as in the mighty building of old. His are the gems that lie deep in the Earth and the gold that is fair in the hand, no less than the walls of the mountains and the basins of the sea. The Noldor learned most of him, and he was ever their friend.

    Of the fabric of Earth had Aulë thought, to whom Ilúvatar had given skin and knowledge scarce less than to Melkor; but the delight and pride of Aulë is in the deed of making, and in the thing made, and neither m possession nor in his own mastery; wherefore he gives and hoards not, and is free from care, passing ever on to some new work.

    The Elves (except Feanor apparently) were also taught be Melkor, greatest in knowledge:

    But fair-seeming were all the words and deeds of Melkor in that time, and both the Valar and the Eldar had profit from his aid and counsel, if they sought it; and therefore in a while he was given leave to go freely about the land, and it seemed to Manwë that the evil of Melkor was cured.

    But the Noldor took delight in the hiddenknowledge that he could reveal to them; and some hearkened to words that it would have been better for them never tohave heard. Melkor indeed declared afterwards that Fëanor had learned much art from him in secret, and had beeninstructed by him in the greatest of all his works; but he lied in his lust and his envy, for none of the Eldalië ever hatedMelkor more than Fëanor son of Finwë, who first named him Morgoth; and snared though he was in the webs ofMelkor's malice against the Valar he held no converse with him and took no counsel from him.

    The Elves of Celbrimbor were also taught by Sauron, who was a pupil of Aule himself in Valinor:

    But elsewhere the Elves received him gladly, and few among them hearkened to the messengers from Lindon bidding them beware; for Sauron took to himself the name of Annatar, the Lord of Gifts, and they had at first much profit from his friendship. And he said to them: "Alas, for the weakness of the great! For a mighty king is Gil-galad, and wise in all lore is Master Elrond, and yet they will not aid me in my labours. Can it be that they do not desire to see other lands become as blissful as their own? But wherefore should Middle-earth remain for ever desolate and dark, whereas the Elves could make it as fair as Eressëa, nay even as Valinor? And since you have not returned thither, as you might, I perceive that you love this Middle-earth, as do I. Is it not then our task to labour together for its enrichment, and for the raising of all the Elven kindreds that wander here untaught to the height of that power and knowledge which those have who are beyond the Sea?'It was in Eregion that the counsels of Sauron were most gladly received, for in that land the Noldor desired ever to increase the skill and subtlety of their works. Moreover they were not at peace in their hearts, since they had refused to return into the West, and they desired both to stay in Middle-earth, which indeed they loved, and yet to enjoy thebliss of those that had departed. Therefore they hearkened to Sauron, and they learned of him many things, for his knowledge was great. In those days the smiths of Ost-in-Edhil surpassed all that they had contrived before; and they took thought, and they made Rings of Power. But Sauron guided their labours, and he was aware of all that they did; for his desire was to set a bond upon the Elves and to bring them under his vigilance.

    Among those of his servants that have names the greatest was that spirit whom the Eldar called Sauron, orGorthaur the Cruel. In his beginning he was of the Maiar of Aulë, and he remained mighty in the lore of that people. Inall the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, – 10 –and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like ashadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void.

    The Three Rings of the Celebrimbor, greatest craftsmen of the Elves in the Third Age, are very powerful:

    But still there are the Three. What of the Three Rings of the Elves? Very mighty Rings, it is said. Do not the Elf-lords keep them? Yet they too were made by the Dark Lord long ago. Are they idle? I see Elf-lords here. Will they not say?’ The Elves returned no answer. ‘Did you not hear me, Glóin?’ said Elrond. ‘The Three were not made by Sauron, nor did he ever touch them. But of them it is not permitted to speak. So much only in this hour of doubt I may now say. They are not idle. But they were not made as weapons of war or conquest: that is not their power. Those who made them did not desire strength or domination or hoarded wealth, but understanding, making, and healing, to preserve all things unstained. These things the Elves of Middle-earth have in some measure gained, though with sorrow. But all that has been wrought by those who wield the Three will turn to their undoing, and their minds and hearts will become revealed to Sauron, if he regains the One. It would be better if the Three had never been. That is his purpose.’ ‘But what then would happen, if the Ruling Ring were destroyed, as you counsel?’ asked Glóin. ‘We know not for certain,’ answered Elrond sadly. ‘Some hope that the Three Rings, which Sauron has never touched, would then become free, and their rulers might heal the hurts of the world that he has wrought. But maybe when the One has gone, the Three will fail, and many fair things will fade and be forgotten. That is my belief.’ ‘Yet all the Elves are willing to endure this chance,’ said Glorfindel, ‘if by it the power of Sauron may be broken, and the fear of his dominion be taken away for ever.’
    ‘It is long since any of my own folk journeyed hither back to the land whence we wandered in ages long ago,’ said Legolas, ‘but we hear that Lórien is not yet deserted, for there is a secret power here that holds evil from the land.
    A light was upon it for which his language had no name. All that he saw was shapely, but the shapes seemed at once clear cut, as if they had been first conceived and drawn at the uncovering of his eyes, and ancient as if they had endured for ever. He saw no colour but those he knew, gold and white and blue and green, but they were fresh and poignant, as if he had at that moment first perceived them and made for them names new and wonderful. In winter here no heart could mourn for summer or for spring. No blemish or sickness or deformity could be seen in anything that grew upon the earth. On the land of Lórien there was no stain. He turned and saw that Sam was now standing beside him, looking round with a puzzled expression, and rubbing his eyes as if he was not sure that he was awake. ‘It’s sunlight and bright day, right enough,’ he said. ‘I thought that Elves were all for moon and stars: but this is more Elvish than anything I ever heard tell of. I feel as if I was inside a song, if you take my meaning.’ Haldir looked at them, and he seemed indeed to take the meaning of both thought and word. He smiled. ‘You feel the power of the Lady of the Galadhrim,’ he said.
    As Frodo prepared to follow him, he laid his hand upon the tree beside the ladder: never before had he been so suddenly and so keenly aware of the feel and texture of a tree’s skin and of the life within it. He felt a delight in wood and the touch of it, neither as forester nor as carpenter; it was the delight of the living tree itself.
    Frodo looked and saw, still at some distance, a hill of many mighty trees, or a city of green towers: which it was he could not tell. Out of it, it seemed to him that the power and light came that held all the land in sway.
    If there’s any magic about, it’s right down deep, where I can’t lay my hands on it, in a manner of speaking.’ ‘You can see and feel it everywhere,’ said Frodo. ‘Well,’ said Sam, ‘you can’t see nobody working it. No fireworks like poor old Gandalf used to show. I wonder we don’t see nothing of the Lord and Lady in all these days. I fancy now that she could do some wonderful things, if she had a mind. I’d dearly love to see some Elf-magic, Mr. Frodo!’
    But do not think that only by singing amid the trees, nor even by the slender arrows of elven-bows, is this land of Lothlórien maintained and defended against its Enemy. I say to you, Frodo, that even as I speak to you, I perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is closed!’ She lifted up her white arms, and spread out her hands towards the East in a gesture of rejection and denial. Eärendil, the Evening Star, most beloved of the Elves, shone clear above. So bright was it that the figure of the Elven-lady cast a dim shadow on the ground. Its rays glanced upon a ring about her finger; it glittered like polished gold overlaid with silver light, and a white stone in it twinkled as if the Even-star had come down to rest upon her hand. Frodo gazed at the ring with awe; for suddenly it seemed to him that he understood. ‘Yes,’ she said, divining his thought, ‘it is not permitted to speak of it, and Elrond could not do so. But it cannot be hidden from the Ring-bearer, and one who has seen the Eye. Verily it is in the land of Lórien upon the finger of Galadriel that one of the Three remains. This is Nenya, the Ring of Adamant, and I am its keeper. ‘He suspects, but he does not know – not yet. Do you not see now wherefore your coming is to us as the footstep of Doom? For if you fail, then we are laid bare to the Enemy. Yet if you succeed, then our power is diminished, and Lothlórien will fade, and the tides of Time will sweep it away. We must depart into the West, or dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten.’
    ‘Nay, time does not tarry ever,’ he said; ‘but change and growth is not in all things and places alike. For the Elves the world moves, and it moves both very swift and very slow. Swift, because they themselves change little, and all else fleets by: it is a grief to them. Slow, because they need not count the running years, not for themselves. The passing seasons are but ripples ever repeated in the long long stream. Yet beneath the Sun all things must wear to an end at last.’ ‘But the wearing is slow in Lórien,’said Frodo. ‘The power of the Lady is on it. Rich are the hours, though short they seem, in Caras Galadhon, where Galadriel wields the Elven-ring.’
    For there was a great inrush of those, burárum, those evileyed-blackhanded-bowlegged-flint-hearted-clawfingeredfoulbellied-bloodthirsty, morimaite-sincahonda, hoom, well, since you are hasty folk and their full name is as long as years of torment, those vermin of orcs; and they came over the River and down from the North and all round the wood of Laurelindórenan, which they could not get into, thanks to the Great ones who are here.’ He bowed to the Lord and Lady of Lórien.
    Now all these things were achieved for the most part by the counsel and vigilance of Mithrandir, and in the last few days he was revealed as a lord of great reverence, and clad in white he rode into battle; but not until the time came for him to depart was it known that he had long guarded the Red Ring of Fire. At the first that Ring had been entrusted to Círdan, Lord of the Havens; but he had surrendered it to Mithrandir, for he knew whence he came and whither at last he would return. ‘Take now this Ring,’ he said; 'for thy labours and thy cares will be heavy, but in all it will support thee and defend thee from weariness. For this is the Ring of Fire, and herewith, maybe, thou shalt rekindle hearts to the valour of old in a world that grows chill.
    Now these were the Three that had last been made, and they possessed the greatest powers. Narya, Nenya, and Vilya, they were named, the Rings of Fire, and of Water, and of Air, set with ruby and adamant and sapphire; and of all the Elven-rings Sauron most desired to possess them, for those who had them in their keeping could ward off the decays of time and postpone the weariness of the world. But Sauron could not discover them, for they were given into the hands of the Wise, who concealed them and never again used them openly while Sauron kept the Ruling Ring. Therefore the Three remained unsullied, for they were forged by Celebrimbor alone, and the hand of Sauron had never touched them; yet they also were subject to the One.
    She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a great light that illumined her alone and left all else dark. She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful. Then she let her hand fall, and the light faded, and suddenly she laughed again, and lo! she was shrunken: a slender elf-woman, clad in simple white, whose gentle voice was soft and sad. ‘I pass the test,’ she said. ‘I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.
    He knows that it is not one of the Three, for they have never been lost, and they endure no evil.
    The Three, fairest of all, the Elf-lords hid from him, and his hand never touched them or sullied them.

    The Elfstones, made by Enerdhil and Celebrimbor, famous Elven-smiths, are also very powerful:

    And it came into his heart to make a jewel within which the clear light of the sun should be imprisoned, but the jewel should be green as leaves. And he made this thing, and even the Noldor marvelled at it. For it is said that those who looked through this stone saw things that were withered or burned healed again or as they were in the grace of their youth, and that the hands of one who held it brought to all that they touched healing from hurt. This gem Enerdhil gave to Idril the King's daughter, and she wore it upon her breast; and so it was saved from the burning of Gondolin. And before Idril set sail she said to Eärendil her son: "The Elessar I leave with thee, for there are grievous hurts to Middle-earth which thou maybe shalt heal. But to none other shalt thou deliver it." And indeed at Sirion's Haven there were many hurts to heal both of Men and Elves, and of beasts that fled thither from the horror of the North; and while Eärendil dwelt there they were healed and prospered, and all things were for a while green and fair.

    Therefore he took thought, and began a long delicate labour, and so for Galadriel he made the greatest of his works (save the Three Rings only). And it is said that more subtle and clear was the green gem that he made than that of Enerdhil, but yet its light had less power. For whereas that of Enerdhil was lit by the Sun in its youth, already many years had passed ere Celebrimbor began his work, and nowhere in Middle-earth was the light as clear as it had been, for though Morgoth had been thrust out into the Void and could not enter again, his far shadow lay upon it. Radiant nonetheless was the Elessar of Celebrimbor; and he set it within a great brooch of silver in the likeness of an eagle rising upon outspread wings." Wielding the Elessar all things grew fair about Galadriel, until the coming of the Shadow to the Forest. But afterwards when Nenya, chief of the Three," was sent to her by Celebrimbor, she needed it (as she thought) no more, and she gave it to Celebrían her daughter, and so it came to Arwen and to Aragorn who was called Elessar.

    And when Olórin had told her many tidings she sighed, and said: "I grieve in Middle-earth, for leaves fall and flowers fade; and my heart yearns, remembering
    trees and grass that do not die. I would have these in my home." Then Olórin said: "Would you then have the Elessar?"

    The Silmarils of Feanor are also of surpassing beauty, power (due to the Light of Valinor within them) and craft.

    Here is an example:

    In that time were made those things that afterwards were most renowned of all the works of the Elves. For Fëanor, being come to his full might, was filled with a new thought, or it may be that some shadow of foreknowledge came to him of the doom that drew near; and he pondered how the light of the Trees, the glory of the Blessed Realm, might be preserved imperishable. Then he began a long and secret labour, and he summoned all his lore, and his power, and his subtle skill; and at the end of all he made the Silmarils. As three great Jewels they were in form. But not until the End, when Fëanor shall return who perished ere the Sun was made, and sits now in the Halls of Awaiting and comes no more among his kin; not until the Sun passes and the Moon falls, shall it be known of what substance they were made. Like the crystal of diamonds it appeared, and yet was more strong than adamant, so that no violence could mar it or break it within the Kingdom of Arda. Yet that crystal was to the Silmarils but as is the body to the Children of Ilúvatar: the house of its inner fire, that is within it and yet in all parts of it, and is its life. And the inner fire of the Silmarils Fëanor made of the blended light of the Trees of Valinor,which lives in them yet, though the Trees have long withered and shine no more. Therefore even in the darkness of the deepest treasury the Silmarils of their own radiance shone like the stars of Varda; and yet, as were they indeed living things, they rejoiced in light and received it and gave it back in hues more marvellous than before.All who dwelt in Aman were filled with wonder and delight at the work of Fëanor. And Varda hallowed the Silmarils, so that thereafter no mortal flesh, nor hands unclean, nor anything of evil will might touch them, but it was scorched and withered; and Mandos foretold that the fates of Arda, earth, sea, and air, lay locked within them.

    I believe what it means by all this about skill and craft of Elves is works of power, beauty, and skill, even alchemical skill. For the final quote, we see that the steel of the Dwarves was hard, and they had good technique, but the Elves had the true skill, of creating substances and objects of wondrous power (the highest Elves of the high, not to be found in the latter days of the Third Age). But again, the highest of the high Dwarves (like Telchar) are not to be found either.

    This is just about all the quoting I feel like doing on this subject, but I might make updates in the future. I hope this helps!
    Last edited by Alkar; August 03, 2015 at 09:55 AM.

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    Berem's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkar View Post
    Well, if you would like Tolkien specifically stated that Dwarves were not particularly evil (as a racial classification, like Orks), and only Men and Elves sometimes them out to be always evil (they were of course evil about certain things). The Dwarves of Durin for example are usually honourable enough. At any rate, there certainly were very greed selfish Dwarves, sometimes because of the accursed dragon-hoards and the influence of the Rings of Power, but a lot of the time plain lust and evil:

    Then the Dwarves looked upon the work of their fathers, and they beheld with wonder the shining jewel of Fëanor; and they were filled with a great lust to possess them, and carry them off to their far homes in the mountains.

    But Thingol perceived their hearts, and saw well that desiring the Silmaril they sought but apretext and fair cloak for their true intent; and in his wrath and pride he gave no heed to his peril, but spoke to them inscorn, saying: 'How do ye of uncouth race dare to demand aught of me, Elu Thingol, Lord of Beleriand, whose lifebegan by the waters of Cuiviénen years uncounted ere the fathers of the stunted people awoke?' And standing tall andproud among them he bade them with shameful words be gone unrequited out of Doriath.Then the lust of the Dwarves was kindled to rage by the words of the King; and they rose up about him, and laidhands on him, and slew him as he stood. So died in the deep places of Menegroth Elwë Singollo, King of Doriath, whoalone of all the Children of Ilúvatar was joined with one of the Ainur; and he who, alone of the Forsaken Elves, hadseen the light of the Trees of Valinor, with his last sight gazed upon the Silmaril.

    They were unsurpassed in works of stone:

    But in the Third Age something of their old character and power is still glimpsed, if already a little dimmed: these are the descendants of the Naugrim of the Elde rDays, in whose hearts still burns the ancient fire of Aulë the Smith, and the embers smoulder of their long grudge against the Elves; and in whose hands still lives the skill in works of stone that none have surpassed.

    They were not particularly evil:

    But they are not evil by nature, and few everserved the Enemy of free will, whatever the tales of Men may have alleged. For Men of old lusted aftertheir wealth and the work of their hands, and there has been enmity between the races.But in the Third Age dose friendship still was found in many places between Men and Dwarves ...

    The gate of Erebor could not be taken, if that means when it was defended or if it was its strength against rams is not known:

    At the same time as the great armies besieged Minas Tirith a host of the allies of Sauron that had longthreatened the borders of King Brand crossed the River Carnen, and Brand was driven back to Dale.There he had the aid of the Dwarves of Erebor; and there was a great battle at the Mountain's feet. It lasted three days, but in the end both King Brand and King Dáin Ironfoot were slain, and the Easterlings had the victory. But they could not take the Gate and many, both Dwarves and Men, took refuge in Erebor, and there withstood a siege.

    The Dwarves were never outmatched in the tempering of steel (achieving greater toughness of steel for swords and other bladed weapons):

    A warlike race of old were all the Naugrim, and they would fight fiercely against whomsoever aggrieved them: servants of Melkor, or Eldar, or Avari, or wild beasts, or not seldom their own kin, Dwarves of other mansions and lordships. Their smithcraft indeed the Sindar soon learned of them; yet in the tempering of steel alone of all crafts the Dwarves were never outmatched even by the Noldor, and in the making of mail of linked rings, which was first contrived by the smiths of Belegost, their work had no rival.

    Telchar was skilled in imbuing metaphysical properties into objects using the power of Runes:

    The Helm of Hador was given into Thingol's hands. That helm was made of grey steel adorned withgold, and on it were graven runes of victory. A power was in it that guarded any who wore it from wound ordeath, for the sword that hewed it was broken, and the dart that smote it sprang aside. It was wrought byTelchar, the smith of Nogrod, whose works were renowned. It had a visor (after the manner of those that theDwarves used in their forges for the shielding of their eyes), and the face of one that wore it struck fear intothe hearts of all beholders, but was itself guarded from dart and fire.

    The Dwarves learned much from the Elves:

    But though either people loved skill and were eager to learn, no great love was there between them; for the Dwarves were secret and quick to resentment, and Caranthir was haughty and scarce concealed his scorn for the unloveliness of the Naugrim, and his people followed their lord. Nevertheless since both peoples feared and hated Morgoth they made alliance, and had of it great profit; for the Naugrim learned many secrets of craft in those days, so that the smiths and masons of Nogrod and Belegost became renowned among their kin, and when the Dwarves began again to journey into Beleriand all the traffic of the dwarf-mines passed first through the hands of Caranthir, and thus great riches came to him.

    General statement (this most likely implies that they were taught somewhat by Aule, and that is why they were skilled from the start):

    But the Naugrim gave their friendship more readily to the Noldor in after days than to any others of Elves and Men, because of their love and reverence for Aulë; and the gems of the Noldor they praised above all other wealth. In the darkness ofArda already the Dwarves wrought great works, for even from the first days of their Fathers they had marvellous skill with metals and with stone; but in that ancient time iron and copper they loved to work, rather than silver or gold.

    The knife of Telchar (Angrist, signifying "Iron-Cleaver"), the greatest Dwarvish smith, is very potent:

    ThenLúthien rising forbade the slaying of Curufin; but Beren despoiled him of his gear and weapons, and took his knife,sheathless by his side; iron it would cleave as if it were green wood.

    The sword of Telchar (Narsil, signifying "Red and White Flame") was very potent:

    Against Aeglos the spear of Gil-galad none could stand; and the sword of Elendil filled Orcs and Men with fear, for it shone with the light of the sun and of the moon, and it was named Narsil.

    But Narsil was broken and its light extinguished, and it has not yet been forged again.

    But before all went Aragorn with the Flame of the West, Andúril like a new fire kindled, Narsil re-forged as deadly as of old; and upon his brow was the Star of Elendil.

    But even as the orc flung down the truncheon and swept out his scimitar, Andúril came down upon his helm. There was a flash like flame and the helm burst asunder. The orc fell with cloven head.

    There was a guard of orcs crouching in the shadows behind the great door-posts towering on either side, but the gates were shattered and cast down. Aragorn smote to the ground the captain that stood in his path, and the rest fled in terror of his wrath.

    The Nauglamir also has a bit of power and is very beautiful:

    And in that time was made for him the Nauglamír, the Necklace of the Dwarves, most renowned of their works in the Elder Days. It was a carcanet of gold, and set therein were gems uncounted from Valinor; but it had a power within it so that it rested lightly on its wearer as a strand of flax, and whatsoever neck it clasped it sat always with grace and
    loveliness.


    Húrin made no answer to the King, but drew forth from beneath his cloak that one thing which he had taken with him out of Nargothrond; and that was no lesser treasure than the Nauglamír, the Necklace of the Dwarves, that was made for Finrod Felagund long years before by the craftsmen of Nogrod and Belegost, most famed of all their works in the Elder Days, and prized by Finrod while he lived above all the treasures of Nargothrond.

    But then we have these statements of Elves:

    In Eregion the craftsmen of the Gwaith-i-Mírdain, the People of the Jewel-smiths, surpassed in cunning all thathave ever wrought, save only Fëanor himself; and indeed greatest in skill among them was Celebrimbor, son ofCurufin, who was estranged from his father and remained in Nargothrond when Celegorm and Curufin were drivenforth, as is told in the Quenta Silmarillion.

    Now Thingol had in Menegroth deep armouries filled with great wealth of weapons: metal wrought like fishes' mail an shining like water in the moon; swords and axes, shields an helms, wrought by Telchar himself or by his master Gamil Zirak the old, or by elven-wrights more skilful still. For some things he had received in gift that came out of Valinor and were wrought by Fëanor in his mastery, than whom no craftsman was greater in all the days of the world.

    And as their friendship grew he would at times go and dwell as guest in the deep mansions of Nogrod or Belegost. There he learned much of metalwork, and came to great skill therein; and he devised ametal as hard as the steel of the Dwarves, but so malleable that he could make it thin and supple; and yet it remained resistant to all blades and darts. He named it galvorn, for it was black and shining like jet, and he was clad in it whenever he went abroad.

    The Elves were taught by Aule himself:

    Aulë has might little less than Ulmo. His lordship is over all the substances of which Arda is made. In the beginning he wrought much in fellowship with Manwë and Ulmo; and the fashioning of all lands was his labour. He is a smith and a master of all crafts, and he delights in works of skill, however small, as much as in the mighty building of old. His are the gems that lie deep in the Earth and the gold that is fair in the hand, no less than the walls of the mountains and the basins of the sea. The Noldor learned most of him, and he was ever their friend.

    Of the fabric of Earth had Aulë thought, to whom Ilúvatar had given skin and knowledge scarce less than to Melkor; but the delight and pride of Aulë is in the deed of making, and in the thing made, and neither m possession nor in his own mastery; wherefore he gives and hoards not, and is free from care, passing ever on to some new work.

    The Elves (except Feanor apparently) were also taught be Melkor, greatest in knowledge:

    But fair-seeming were all the words and deeds of Melkor in that time, and both the Valar and the Eldar had profit from his aid and counsel, if they sought it; and therefore in a while he was given leave to go freely about the land, and it seemed to Manwë that the evil of Melkor was cured.

    But the Noldor took delight in the hiddenknowledge that he could reveal to them; and some hearkened to words that it would have been better for them never tohave heard. Melkor indeed declared afterwards that Fëanor had learned much art from him in secret, and had beeninstructed by him in the greatest of all his works; but he lied in his lust and his envy, for none of the Eldalië ever hatedMelkor more than Fëanor son of Finwë, who first named him Morgoth; and snared though he was in the webs ofMelkor's malice against the Valar he held no converse with him and took no counsel from him.

    The Elves of Celbrimbor were also taught by Sauron, who was a pupil of Aule himself in Valinor:

    But elsewhere the Elves received him gladly, and few among them hearkened to the messengers from Lindon bidding them beware; for Sauron took to himself the name of Annatar, the Lord of Gifts, and they had at first much profit from his friendship. And he said to them: "Alas, for the weakness of the great! For a mighty king is Gil-galad, and wise in all lore is Master Elrond, and yet they will not aid me in my labours. Can it be that they do not desire to see other lands become as blissful as their own? But wherefore should Middle-earth remain for ever desolate and dark, whereas the Elves could make it as fair as Eressëa, nay even as Valinor? And since you have not returned thither, as you might, I perceive that you love this Middle-earth, as do I. Is it not then our task to labour together for its enrichment, and for the raising of all the Elven kindreds that wander here untaught to the height of that power and knowledge which those have who are beyond the Sea?'It was in Eregion that the counsels of Sauron were most gladly received, for in that land the Noldor desired ever to increase the skill and subtlety of their works. Moreover they were not at peace in their hearts, since they had refused to return into the West, and they desired both to stay in Middle-earth, which indeed they loved, and yet to enjoy thebliss of those that had departed. Therefore they hearkened to Sauron, and they learned of him many things, for his knowledge was great. In those days the smiths of Ost-in-Edhil surpassed all that they had contrived before; and they took thought, and they made Rings of Power. But Sauron guided their labours, and he was aware of all that they did; for his desire was to set a bond upon the Elves and to bring them under his vigilance.

    Among those of his servants that have names the greatest was that spirit whom the Eldar called Sauron, orGorthaur the Cruel. In his beginning he was of the Maiar of Aulë, and he remained mighty in the lore of that people. Inall the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, – 10 –and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like ashadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void.

    The Three Rings of the Celebrimbor, greatest craftsmen of the Elves in the Third Age, are very powerful:

    But still there are the Three. What of the Three Rings of the Elves? Very mighty Rings, it is said. Do not the Elf-lords keep them? Yet they too were made by the Dark Lord long ago. Are they idle? I see Elf-lords here. Will they not say?’ The Elves returned no answer. ‘Did you not hear me, Glóin?’ said Elrond. ‘The Three were not made by Sauron, nor did he ever touch them. But of them it is not permitted to speak. So much only in this hour of doubt I may now say. They are not idle. But they were not made as weapons of war or conquest: that is not their power. Those who made them did not desire strength or domination or hoarded wealth, but understanding, making, and healing, to preserve all things unstained. These things the Elves of Middle-earth have in some measure gained, though with sorrow. But all that has been wrought by those who wield the Three will turn to their undoing, and their minds and hearts will become revealed to Sauron, if he regains the One. It would be better if the Three had never been. That is his purpose.’ ‘But what then would happen, if the Ruling Ring were destroyed, as you counsel?’ asked Glóin. ‘We know not for certain,’ answered Elrond sadly. ‘Some hope that the Three Rings, which Sauron has never touched, would then become free, and their rulers might heal the hurts of the world that he has wrought. But maybe when the One has gone, the Three will fail, and many fair things will fade and be forgotten. That is my belief.’ ‘Yet all the Elves are willing to endure this chance,’ said Glorfindel, ‘if by it the power of Sauron may be broken, and the fear of his dominion be taken away for ever.’
    ‘It is long since any of my own folk journeyed hither back to the land whence we wandered in ages long ago,’ said Legolas, ‘but we hear that Lórien is not yet deserted, for there is a secret power here that holds evil from the land.
    A light was upon it for which his language had no name. All that he saw was shapely, but the shapes seemed at once clear cut, as if they had been first conceived and drawn at the uncovering of his eyes, and ancient as if they had endured for ever. He saw no colour but those he knew, gold and white and blue and green, but they were fresh and poignant, as if he had at that moment first perceived them and made for them names new and wonderful. In winter here no heart could mourn for summer or for spring. No blemish or sickness or deformity could be seen in anything that grew upon the earth. On the land of Lórien there was no stain. He turned and saw that Sam was now standing beside him, looking round with a puzzled expression, and rubbing his eyes as if he was not sure that he was awake. ‘It’s sunlight and bright day, right enough,’ he said. ‘I thought that Elves were all for moon and stars: but this is more Elvish than anything I ever heard tell of. I feel as if I was inside a song, if you take my meaning.’ Haldir looked at them, and he seemed indeed to take the meaning of both thought and word. He smiled. ‘You feel the power of the Lady of the Galadhrim,’ he said.
    As Frodo prepared to follow him, he laid his hand upon the tree beside the ladder: never before had he been so suddenly and so keenly aware of the feel and texture of a tree’s skin and of the life within it. He felt a delight in wood and the touch of it, neither as forester nor as carpenter; it was the delight of the living tree itself.
    Frodo looked and saw, still at some distance, a hill of many mighty trees, or a city of green towers: which it was he could not tell. Out of it, it seemed to him that the power and light came that held all the land in sway.
    If there’s any magic about, it’s right down deep, where I can’t lay my hands on it, in a manner of speaking.’ ‘You can see and feel it everywhere,’ said Frodo. ‘Well,’ said Sam, ‘you can’t see nobody working it. No fireworks like poor old Gandalf used to show. I wonder we don’t see nothing of the Lord and Lady in all these days. I fancy now that she could do some wonderful things, if she had a mind. I’d dearly love to see some Elf-magic, Mr. Frodo!’
    But do not think that only by singing amid the trees, nor even by the slender arrows of elven-bows, is this land of Lothlórien maintained and defended against its Enemy. I say to you, Frodo, that even as I speak to you, I perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is closed!’ She lifted up her white arms, and spread out her hands towards the East in a gesture of rejection and denial. Eärendil, the Evening Star, most beloved of the Elves, shone clear above. So bright was it that the figure of the Elven-lady cast a dim shadow on the ground. Its rays glanced upon a ring about her finger; it glittered like polished gold overlaid with silver light, and a white stone in it twinkled as if the Even-star had come down to rest upon her hand. Frodo gazed at the ring with awe; for suddenly it seemed to him that he understood. ‘Yes,’ she said, divining his thought, ‘it is not permitted to speak of it, and Elrond could not do so. But it cannot be hidden from the Ring-bearer, and one who has seen the Eye. Verily it is in the land of Lórien upon the finger of Galadriel that one of the Three remains. This is Nenya, the Ring of Adamant, and I am its keeper. ‘He suspects, but he does not know – not yet. Do you not see now wherefore your coming is to us as the footstep of Doom? For if you fail, then we are laid bare to the Enemy. Yet if you succeed, then our power is diminished, and Lothlórien will fade, and the tides of Time will sweep it away. We must depart into the West, or dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten.’
    ‘Nay, time does not tarry ever,’ he said; ‘but change and growth is not in all things and places alike. For the Elves the world moves, and it moves both very swift and very slow. Swift, because they themselves change little, and all else fleets by: it is a grief to them. Slow, because they need not count the running years, not for themselves. The passing seasons are but ripples ever repeated in the long long stream. Yet beneath the Sun all things must wear to an end at last.’ ‘But the wearing is slow in Lórien,’said Frodo. ‘The power of the Lady is on it. Rich are the hours, though short they seem, in Caras Galadhon, where Galadriel wields the Elven-ring.’
    For there was a great inrush of those, burárum, those evileyed-blackhanded-bowlegged-flint-hearted-clawfingeredfoulbellied-bloodthirsty, morimaite-sincahonda, hoom, well, since you are hasty folk and their full name is as long as years of torment, those vermin of orcs; and they came over the River and down from the North and all round the wood of Laurelindórenan, which they could not get into, thanks to the Great ones who are here.’ He bowed to the Lord and Lady of Lórien.
    Now all these things were achieved for the most part by the counsel and vigilance of Mithrandir, and in the last few days he was revealed as a lord of great reverence, and clad in white he rode into battle; but not until the time came for him to depart was it known that he had long guarded the Red Ring of Fire. At the first that Ring had been entrusted to Círdan, Lord of the Havens; but he had surrendered it to Mithrandir, for he knew whence he came and whither at last he would return. ‘Take now this Ring,’ he said; 'for thy labours and thy cares will be heavy, but in all it will support thee and defend thee from weariness. For this is the Ring of Fire, and herewith, maybe, thou shalt rekindle hearts to the valour of old in a world that grows chill.
    Now these were the Three that had last been made, and they possessed the greatest powers. Narya, Nenya, and Vilya, they were named, the Rings of Fire, and of Water, and of Air, set with ruby and adamant and sapphire; and of all the Elven-rings Sauron most desired to possess them, for those who had them in their keeping could ward off the decays of time and postpone the weariness of the world. But Sauron could not discover them, for they were given into the hands of the Wise, who concealed them and never again used them openly while Sauron kept the Ruling Ring. Therefore the Three remained unsullied, for they were forged by Celebrimbor alone, and the hand of Sauron had never touched them; yet they also were subject to the One.
    She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a great light that illumined her alone and left all else dark. She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful. Then she let her hand fall, and the light faded, and suddenly she laughed again, and lo! she was shrunken: a slender elf-woman, clad in simple white, whose gentle voice was soft and sad. ‘I pass the test,’ she said. ‘I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.
    He knows that it is not one of the Three, for they have never been lost, and they endure no evil.
    The Three, fairest of all, the Elf-lords hid from him, and his hand never touched them or sullied them.

    The Elfstones, made by Enerdhil and Celebrimbor, famous Elven-smiths, are also very powerful:

    And it came into his heart to make a jewel within which the clear light of the sun should be imprisoned, but the jewel should be green as leaves. And he made this thing, and even the Noldor marvelled at it. For it is said that those who looked through this stone saw things that were withered or burned healed again or as they were in the grace of their youth, and that the hands of one who held it brought to all that they touched healing from hurt. This gem Enerdhil gave to Idril the King's daughter, and she wore it upon her breast; and so it was saved from the burning of Gondolin. And before Idril set sail she said to Eärendil her son: "The Elessar I leave with thee, for there are grievous hurts to Middle-earth which thou maybe shalt heal. But to none other shalt thou deliver it." And indeed at Sirion's Haven there were many hurts to heal both of Men and Elves, and of beasts that fled thither from the horror of the North; and while Eärendil dwelt there they were healed and prospered, and all things were for a while green and fair.

    Therefore he took thought, and began a long delicate labour, and so for Galadriel he made the greatest of his works (save the Three Rings only). And it is said that more subtle and clear was the green gem that he made than that of Enerdhil, but yet its light had less power. For whereas that of Enerdhil was lit by the Sun in its youth, already many years had passed ere Celebrimbor began his work, and nowhere in Middle-earth was the light as clear as it had been, for though Morgoth had been thrust out into the Void and could not enter again, his far shadow lay upon it. Radiant nonetheless was the Elessar of Celebrimbor; and he set it within a great brooch of silver in the likeness of an eagle rising upon outspread wings." Wielding the Elessar all things grew fair about Galadriel, until the coming of the Shadow to the Forest. But afterwards when Nenya, chief of the Three," was sent to her by Celebrimbor, she needed it (as she thought) no more, and she gave it to Celebrían her daughter, and so it came to Arwen and to Aragorn who was called Elessar.

    And when Olórin had told her many tidings she sighed, and said: "I grieve in Middle-earth, for leaves fall and flowers fade; and my heart yearns, remembering
    trees and grass that do not die. I would have these in my home." Then Olórin said: "Would you then have the Elessar?"

    The Silmarils of Feanor are also of surpassing beauty, power (due to the Light of Valinor within them) and craft.

    Here is an example:

    In that time were made those things that afterwards were most renowned of all the works of the Elves. For Fëanor, being come to his full might, was filled with a new thought, or it may be that some shadow of foreknowledge came to him of the doom that drew near; and he pondered how the light of the Trees, the glory of the Blessed Realm, might be preserved imperishable. Then he began a long and secret labour, and he summoned all his lore, and his power, and his subtle skill; and at the end of all he made the Silmarils. As three great Jewels they were in form. But not until the End, when Fëanor shall return who perished ere the Sun was made, and sits now in the Halls of Awaiting and comes no more among his kin; not until the Sun passes and the Moon falls, shall it be known of what substance they were made. Like the crystal of diamonds it appeared, and yet was more strong than adamant, so that no violence could mar it or break it within the Kingdom of Arda. Yet that crystal was to the Silmarils but as is the body to the Children of Ilúvatar: the house of its inner fire, that is within it and yet in all parts of it, and is its life. And the inner fire of the Silmarils Fëanor made of the blended light of the Trees of Valinor,which lives in them yet, though the Trees have long withered and shine no more. Therefore even in the darkness of the deepest treasury the Silmarils of their own radiance shone like the stars of Varda; and yet, as were they indeed living things, they rejoiced in light and received it and gave it back in hues more marvellous than before.All who dwelt in Aman were filled with wonder and delight at the work of Fëanor. And Varda hallowed the Silmarils, so that thereafter no mortal flesh, nor hands unclean, nor anything of evil will might touch them, but it was scorched and withered; and Mandos foretold that the fates of Arda, earth, sea, and air, lay locked within them.

    I believe what it means by all this about skill and craft of Elves is works of power, beauty, and skill, even alchemical skill. For the final quote, we see that the steel of the Dwarves was hard, and they had good technique, but the Elves had the true skill, of creating substances and objects of wondrous power (the highest Elves of the high, not to be found in the latter days of the Third Age). But again, the highest of the high Dwarves (like Telchar) are not to be found either.

    This is just about all the quoting I feel like doing on this subject, but I might make updates in the future. I hope this helps!
    By Morgoth Bauglir! That is surely a lot of thoughts and I do not have all the time needed to read and analyse them now; although more or less my position seems to stand at least to a certain degree accordingly with those Oliphaunt statements above ! I shall answer them later...


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    You see, my friend, or should I say foe: the truth has died so long ago, that I shall not find her headstone!

  3. #183
    Alkar's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    Quote Originally Posted by Berem View Post
    By Morgoth Bauglir! That is surely a lot of thoughts and I do not have all the time needed to read and analyse them now; although more or less my position seems to stand at least to a certain degree accordingly with those Oliphaunt statements above ! I shall answer them later...
    Hehe take your time

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    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    i am sooo excited, you guys are my heroes

  5. #185

    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    amazing..can't wait to see a screenshot of them

  6. #186
    ♔atthias♔'s Avatar dutch speaking
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    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    how is it going whit the dwarven model? is the task done?
    greetings atthias
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  7. #187
    Mr.Jox's Avatar WHY SO SERIOUS?!
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    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    This dwarf the most long in-development unit. It's not only because developer has no time but also because we made new dwarven skeleton for all dwarves, we still have to make new animations for new skeleton(easy one but time consuming) and dwarf a bit hard one unit coz of non-human proportions.

  8. #188
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    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.J View Post
    This dwarf the most long in-development unit. It's not only because developer has no time but also because we made new dwarven skeleton for all dwarves, we still have to make new animations for new skeleton(easy one but time consuming) and dwarf a bit hard one unit coz of non-human proportions.
    oke thanks for the answer
    greetings atthias
    Rise of Mordor 3D Modelers Wanted
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    Massive Overhaul Submod Units!
    D you want some units back in MOS 1.7? Install this mod http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...n-1-1-RELEASED
    It adds back units who were deleted from the campaign in MOS 1.7, namely the Winged Swordsmen, the Citadel Guard Archers and the Gondor Dismounted Bodyguard.

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    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    Clenvey you have talent, here is some +rep
    That's 3ds max am I right?

  10. #190
    Mr.Jox's Avatar WHY SO SERIOUS?!
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    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    Clenvey is no longer develops the mod. He has left the project after some RL issues. We still wait for the day for his return.
    And no, iirc Clenvey used Cinema 4D for modelling.

  11. #191
    Civis
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    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    Oh, that's a pity, I'd work on TW:ROM but I don't like Attila and gameplay mechanics can't be change, but still texture is amazing.

  12. #192
    Mr.Jox's Avatar WHY SO SERIOUS?!
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    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    Strange why you here then if you don't like the game

  13. #193
    Civis
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    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    It looks promisnig, I'd really like to play Attila with this mod

  14. #194

    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    Very good work!!!

  15. #195

    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    Question, how is the unit roster composed? Will you be keeping the Third Age TW roster or will this be made from scratch? I'm curious because I just saw some crazy The Hobbits models from Games Workshop. Here is the link if you hadn't seen them before: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Grim-Hammers

  16. #196
    Mr.Jox's Avatar WHY SO SERIOUS?!
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    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    Stop comparing TATW and RoM. Nothing will be like in TATW, it will be like in RoM.

  17. #197
    ♔atthias♔'s Avatar dutch speaking
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    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.J View Post
    Stop comparing TATW and RoM. Nothing will be like in TATW, it will be like in RoM.
    I fully agree whit this team keep up the good work
    greetings atthias
    Rise of Mordor 3D Modelers Wanted
    Total War - Rise of Mordor
    Are you a 3D Environment and Character artist, or a Character Animator?

    If yes, then the Rise of Mordor team linked above is looking for you!
    Massive Overhaul Submod Units!
    D you want some units back in MOS 1.7? Install this mod http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...n-1-1-RELEASED
    It adds back units who were deleted from the campaign in MOS 1.7, namely the Winged Swordsmen, the Citadel Guard Archers and the Gondor Dismounted Bodyguard.

    Under the proud patronage of
    Frunk of the house of Siblesz

  18. #198

    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Death View Post
    Question, how is the unit roster composed? Will you be keeping the Third Age TW roster or will this be made from scratch? I'm curious because I just saw some crazy The Hobbits models from Games Workshop. Here is the link if you hadn't seen them before: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Grim-Hammers
    funnt i have these standing next to me

  19. #199
    Laetus
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    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    For anyone interested, here's a history of the dwarves:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfeR52a3l-k (part 1)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzsqOu8dFVA (part 2)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04gd4hQ60ac (part 3)

    Enjoy!

  20. #200

    Default Re: [Development] Preview Thread: Dwarves of Erebor

    I hope that dwarves will still be an infantry oriented faction...with shild wal (hoplite phalanx) as main battle formation...invincible infantry but weak in rest...
    Last edited by son of romans; September 04, 2015 at 04:09 AM.

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