National Cohesion of USA

[Petrucci]

National cohesion entails the constructing of an integrated citizenry with a sense of belonging amongst members of different groups and from different regions, through the regulation and reconciliation of differences as well as competing interests and demands.
We all know that American nations didn't exist till 18/19 century. We also know that it was created by white immigrants from Europe who had many differences such as ethnicity, culture, religion and language.
My first question is how did American government or society managed to melt all those differences and create compact nation?
Second question, could some of you explain me melting pot mechanism in details and it function in process of "Americanization" (where Americanization is understood as the process of an immigrant to the United States of America becoming a person who shares American values, beliefs and customs and is assimilated into American society (copied detention from Wiki) ?
Third: How were American values, beliefs and customs created?
Fourth, Role of interest immigrants certainly shared in creating American nation, and mechanisms of it harmonization between various groups?

That's about it for past and now set of more contemporary questions:
Melting Pot vs Multiculturalism?
Black and Latino minority,are there still traces of racial segregation, and if it is still existing, is it strong enough to represent threat to national cohesion of USA?
Role of institution in promoting nationalism

I would like to ask you one more thing, only post if you can somehow contribute discussion and if you are familiar with topic. Also feel free to use any academic quotes or give advice about literature focused on this topic.
Wish us polite and informative discussion!

[Border Patrol]

1. America has developed a fairly homogeneous society mainly through a rejection of the homeland. Immigrants come to the United States seeking a brighter future with a desire to become an American.

2. This brings us to the melting pot, which is the method our society has developed to cope with its massive non-indigenous population. The overwhelming majority of Americans are descended from peoples who are not native to the United States, which may surprise you. What ends up happening is the immigrants to the United States end up learning our customs and behave in a manner similar, but not identical to that of multi-generational Americans. Our culture rubs off on them at the same time their culture rubs off on us. A classic example being St. Patrick's day being celebrated widely throughout the country by non-Irish descendants as a fantastic excuse to get plastered. "Americanization" as you describe it is not actually the immigrants becoming more like the people that are already here, it's more a process of us becoming more like each other.

3. American values, beliefs, and customs are still being created by the people still coming to this country from the lands they come from. While the United States was created by people who have rejected their homelands they haven't turned their backs on what they hold dear. They bring their religion, their customs, and their way of life. This leaves a lasting impression on the existing populace.

4. Immigrants absolutely created America. It's laws and cultural foundations were created by people foreign to the land, even in cases such as mine where the United States came to their people rather than the other way around. The melting pot is the philosophy behind the nation. We are one people from many, we do not celebrate our differences but rather embrace how we are the same.

5. The melting pot in my mind is a more permanent solution to immigration waves than multiculturalism, which just puts the problem off for future generations. Look at the nonsense in Catalonia and Caledonia (hehe) right now. They are almost identical to the majority group in their respective nations and yet they're too different to coexist when times get a little tough? How is that going to go down when people form half a world away are in the country when the natives and the immigrants haven't bothered to learn anything from each other? We need to grow together as a people to move forward and I don't see multiculturalism being about that at all.

6. Latinos are not actually racially segregated anywhere in the US that I have seen as of yet, and being Hispanic myself I do actually hesitate to embrace the label 'Latino'. To me it's a loaded word. It says brown. It says foreign. It says other. Give this one time, in the future I think we'll see less Latinos and more Americans of Hispanic descent. We need to keep in mind that this is a very recent immigration wave. We still have much growing to do.
Regarding black populations, I see it as being worse off in the north and the west than in the south. The south is driving much of the economic growth in the country and it's where the vast majority of the black Americans call home. The cities that are all black see this much less but the major population centers like Charlotte and Atlanta are seeing some serious racial healing compared to where they were fifty years ago. I think it will take much more time than any other people in the United States, but I do see signs of improvement.

[hellheaven1987]

The short answer is United States/New World has no culture under the definition of Old World, hence it can accept many different cultures quite openly.

[Dick Cheney.]

1. America has developed a fairly homogeneous society mainly through a rejection of the homeland. Immigrants come to the United States seeking a brighter future with a desire to become an American.

I actually think American society developed more through a rejection of oppressive government rather than homeland identity outright. Or at least it started out that way.

Paul Revere, of course, never said "the British were coming!" because American colonists, prior to the Declaration of Independence, still considered themselves as British. And most intellectual origins for the American Revolution (rooted in the Magna Carta) point to a widespread belief on behalf of the American Colonies that the Crown had denied them basic rights to representation and equal protection of the laws which should have been guaranteed to all Englishman.

2. This brings us to the melting pot, which is the method our society has developed to cope with its massive non-indigenous population. The overwhelming majority of Americans are descended from peoples who are not native to the United States, which may surprise you. What ends up happening is the immigrants to the United States end up learning our customs and behave in a manner similar, but not identical to that of multi-generational Americans. Our culture rubs off on them at the same time their culture rubs off on us. A classic example being St. Patrick's day being celebrated widely throughout the country by non-Irish descendants as a fantastic excuse to get plastered. "Americanization" as you describe it is not actually the immigrants becoming more like the people that are already here, it's more a process of us becoming more like each other.

On this point, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on American Exceptionalism and to how much of it extends to culture or just form of government. That Americans are not descended from people who are native to the United States is clear and unique in history, and I definitely agree on the rubbing part as far as demographics goes; but as for rule of law, I disagree that Americanization has been about constantly changing our original founding principles in representative government (with exceptions to slaves and women) to newly arriving immigrants and the rest of the world. On the contrarily, I think Americanization and Revolutionary principles- if anything- has been about the rest of the world trying to catch up to us; our constitution, belief in equality, and free society.

3. American values, beliefs, and customs are still being created by the people still coming to this country from the lands they come from. While the United States was created by people who have rejected their homelands they haven't turned their backs on what they hold dear. They bring their religion, their customs, and their way of life. This leaves a lasting impression on the existing populace.

There's considerable debate to how much of traditional American values are rooted in the Judeo-Christian Bible. Though I won't take a side on this and I'm smart enough to know that 99% of the founding fathers were not in favor of any particular religion, the debate amongst historians still exists because of the theological aspects of natural law and overthrowing a despot. And I think its still safe to say that our most basic cultural tenets -like language, free market principles, and representation- are still belonging to Great Britain.

4. Immigrants absolutely created America. It's laws and cultural foundations were created by people foreign to the land, even in cases such as mine where the United States came to their people rather than the other way around. The melting pot is the philosophy behind the nation. We are one people from many, we do not celebrate our differences but rather embrace how we are the same.

Disagree here. America is about being able to celebrate our differences. If we were allowed only to embrace how we are the same, we would be communists.

5. The melting pot in my mind is a more permanent solution to immigration waves than multiculturalism, which just puts the problem off for future generations. Look at the nonsense in Catalonia and Caledonia (hehe) right now. They are almost identical to the majority group in their respective nations and yet they're too different to coexist when times get a little tough? How is that going to go down when people form half a world away are in the country when the natives and the immigrants haven't bothered to learn anything from each other? We need to grow together as a people to move forward and I don't see multiculturalism being about that at all.

I would actually argue that Federalism, not melting pot or multiculturalism, as the best solution to immigration. People in Texas for instance, are way different than the people in California, Ohio and Oregon, Flordia and Alaska, and vice versa. It works because state laws are different. Yet being allowed to keep or "celebrate" their differences in their respective states but still being united under National Government is what makes cultural diversity work.

[Petrucci]

Can you explain me concept of American exceptionalism in details?
Can you tell me something more about basic american values: optimism, pragmatism , individualism, patriotism, tolerance and open mindedness? Are those values included in exceptionalism?

[Border Patrol]

American exceptionalism is the idea that the United States and Americans in general are superior to the rest of the world. Any obstacle can be overcome by our collective ingenuity and industriousness, the world looks to us for an example a la "that we shall be as a city upon a hill—the eyes of all people are upon us". Very rooted in patriotism and optimism, individualism is a bit unrelated. Tolerance and open mindedness have no place in that philosophy which is why it is generally shamed now days.

[RubiconDecision]

delete

[conon394]

Our ancestors would barely recognize today's American citizens, and it's tragic. The old days were not all good, far from it, but they were not all bad, and shouldn't be devalued. That lack of caring, just a massive apathy about America, has led to almost a persistent depression of being an American.

I beg to differ my Polish and Polish/Jewish ancestors got to find out how 'work sets you free' ... None of my family that emigrated to the US have been depressed about being American.

[hellheaven1987]

None of my family that emigrated to the US have been depressed about being American.

Probably because US is still much better than rest of world; at least putting effort does reward you in the end in US, which is not necessary in Old World.

[RubiconDecision]

I beg to differ my Polish and Polish/Jewish ancestors got to find out how 'work sets you free' ... None of my family that emigrated to the US have been depressed about being American.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publi...ca/index.shtml
"Mental Disorders in America

Mental disorders are common in the United States and internationally. An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older — about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year.¹ When applied to the 2004 U.S. Census residential population estimate for ages 18 and older, this figure translates to 57.7 million people.² Even though mental disorders are widespread in the population, the main burden of illness is concentrated in a much smaller proportion — about 6 percent, or 1 in 17 — who suffer from a serious mental illness.¹ In addition, mental disorders are the leading cause of disability in the U.S. and Canada.³ Many people suffer from more than one mental disorder at a given time. Nearly half (45 percent) of those with any mental disorder meet criteria for 2 or more disorders, with severity strongly related to comorbidity.¹"

• Major Depressive Disorder is the leading cause of disability in the U.S. for ages 15-44.³
• Major depressive disorder affects approximately 14.8 million American adults, or about 6.7 percent of the U.S. population age 18 and older in a given year.^{1, 2}
• While major depressive disorder can develop at any age, the median age at onset is 32.⁵
• Major depressive disorder is more prevalent in women than in men.⁶"

I stand by my statement. The aftermath of Vietnam, the effects of the end of economic prosperity, the end of superpower status, all are leading to a perpetual and increasing state of persistent Depression in America.

Maybe it's because of this, you think?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...oads/13152651/
More than a third of the country is in trouble when it comes to paying debts on time; 35% of Americans have debt in collections, according to a study out Tuesday from the Urban Institute, which analyzed the credit files of 7 million Americans.

That means the debt is so far past due that the account has been closed and placed in collections. This typically happens after the bill hasn't been paid for 180 days. It also means the debt has been reported to credit bureaus and can affect someone's credit score."

Or how about this?
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ove...ity-2014-06-03
"As the housing market slowly recovers, a majority of homeowners and renters are finding it hard to meet rising rents and mortgage payments, new research finds.

Over half of Americans (52%) have had to make at least one major sacrifice in order to cover their rent or mortgage over the last three years, according to the “How Housing Matters Survey,” which was commissioned by the nonprofit John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation and carried out by Hart Research Associates. These sacrifices include getting a second job, deferring saving for retirement, cutting back on health care, running up credit card debt, or even moving to a less safe neighborhood or one with worse schools.

“Affordability issues are real and a major hurdle,” says Lawrence Yun, chief economist at the National Association of Realtors, an industry group. Home prices have increased 20% over the past two years while wages have barely gone up, he says. “Only by adding more new supply, via housing starts, can home prices be tamed,” Yun adds. In fact, construction of housing units has averaged around 1.5 million a year for the past five decades, he says, but it’s likely to be less than 1 million in 2014.

Maybe Americans are depressed and not buying homes because of this little nugget of information:
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/24/pf/e...ngs/index.html
Roughly three-quarters of Americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck, with little to no emergency savings, according to a survey released by Bankrate.com Monday.

Fewer than one in four Americans have enough money in their savings account to cover at least six months of expenses, enough to help cushion the blow of a job loss, medical emergency or some other unexpected event, according to the survey of 1,000 adults. Meanwhile, 50% of those surveyed have less than a three-month cushion and 27% had no savings at all."

But not to worry because there's a family of happy non-depressed people in America...so everything is peachy.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Ok, just to clarify: social cohesion is not social integration. Despite the massive inequalities along the lines of educational-achievement, occupational compensation or income distribution that put a strain on every social structure the USA has a significantly strong level of social integration. This means that there's a more or less global acceptance of abstractly and ambiguously defined beliefs regarding many different aspects of everyday life, just as there's a somewhat strong consensus around the values defining the political institutions of the US, and even if the interpretations of everyday plebeians differ from one another the rationally accepted definitions of what one would call "the political elite" are strong enough to keep the country going without the massive challenges that societies much more homogeneous in appearance tend to face.

Then there's the concrete problem of "social cohesion", a concept related to integration but not really a synonymous. Social cohesion is best represented as the thinness or thickness of ties between individuals, families and local institutions of a community, of which there's millions in the US, thinness and thickness can be divided in relationship to the degree in which reliance-networks, interpersonal trust and safeness are diluted or heavily present in the minds of the inhabitants. As a country housing more than 300 million people along one of the largest territories of the planet it's to be expected that the many communities of the US develop differing levels of social cohesion. Structural factors such as urbanization, racial homogeneity, ideological heterogeneity or economic stability have a direct impact on the communities perception of cohesiveness; particular factors like the local perception toward institutions such a the police corps or image of governmental officials have a significant impact as well.

Of course differing levels of social cohesion at the local level can have differing impacts on social integration at a macro level; without certain degree of articulation toward the general values of the "american whole" it can get tricky for Federal institutions and secessionist impulses could appear as an ultimate alternative. But that doesn't seem like the case, not at all. However it's fair to say that urban communities along the rust-belt and other areas suffering from long term unemployment, with it's permanently reduced opportunity structure have suffered from decaying social cohesion for a long time now, how that affects political decisions and future social challenges at the macro scale is not deterministic.

[RubiconDecision]

Ok, just to clarify: social cohesion is not social integration. Despite the massive inequalities along the lines of educational-achievement, occupational compensation or income distribution that put a strain on every social structure the USA has a significantly strong level of social integration. This means that there's a more or less global acceptance of abstractly and ambiguously defined beliefs regarding many different aspects of everyday life, just as there's a somewhat strong consensus around the values defining the political institutions of the US, and even if the interpretations of everyday plebeians differ from one another the rationally accepted definitions of what one would call "the political elite" are strong enough to keep the country going without the massive challenges that societies much more homogeneous in appearance tend to face.

Then there's the concrete problem of "social cohesion", a concept related to integration but not really a synonymous. Social cohesion is best represented as the thinness or thickness of ties between individuals, families and local institutions of a community, of which there's millions in the US, thinness and thickness can be divided in relationship to the degree in which reliance-networks, interpersonal trust and safeness are diluted or heavily present in the minds of the inhabitants. As a country housing more than 300 million people along one of the largest territories of the planet it's to be expected that the many communities of the US develop differing levels of social cohesion. Structural factors such as urbanization, racial homogeneity, ideological heterogeneity or economic stability have a direct impact on the communities perception of cohesiveness; particular factors like the local perception toward institutions such a the police corps or image of governmental officials have a significant impact as well.

Of course differing levels of social cohesion at the local level can have differing impacts on social integration at a macro level; without certain degree of articulation toward the general values of the "american whole" it can get tricky for Federal institutions and secessionist impulses could appear as an ultimate alternative. But that doesn't seem like the case, not at all. However it's fair to say that urban communities along the rust-belt and other areas suffering from long term unemployment, with it's permanently reduced opportunity structure have suffered from decaying social cohesion for a long time now, how that affects political decisions and future social challenges at the macro scale is not deterministic.

I'd say a discussion of Americans within a Republic that treats them as plebeians and discusses a political elite sounds suspiciously like the corruption of the Roman Republic and the true aristocracy that ruled it. That's not the model of the Founding Fathers and it's not the model of even the worst excesses of the Republican party (GOP), so I'm not sure that part of being ruled by an elite has to do with our legal and mandated form of government nor cohesion. That's rather repulsive. Honestly it's sounding like serfdom.

I'd say that we have extremely high unemployment post-NAFTA and post-GATT, lost our industrial base, allowed the corporations to move jobs first to Puerto Rico in the pharmaceutical industry (there were major initiatives in the nineties) as they could pay them a little more, but those in the states got downsized. Then the manufacturing moved to China and the Pacific Rim, while American industry was shuttered, and the equipment sold for pennies on the dollar to those Chinese and Pacific Rim companies. It was all really rotten and aided and abetted by both the Democrats and the Republicans who got lots of PAC money.

Meanwhile we're seeing a lot of aging workers who have lost their jobs, too many people in college without prospects of what they got educated for, massive student loan defaults, people in their thirties who are still living with Mom and Dad, and according to some figures the true unemployment is 18% based upon old tried and true methods for calculating it. But we do have some temporary jobs and a lot of young people working them and in a pretty unstable situation and with no Hope.

Maybe it was No Hope and Change.

On top of that, we have up to 500K of illegal immigrants being allowed into the country and the government is not only not kicking them out, but facilitating with a 93% acceptance rate, bus transportation (dumping literally in states like Indiana) and actually asking Americans to house and mentor illegal aliens and cutting them a check if they accept.

Now, do you think any of that shows any stability and cohesiveness, because I ain't seeing it, y'all? I'm seeing implosion. They say misery loves company...maybe Americans will think of themselves as all suffering serfs and ask for bread and circuses and we can all laugh and watch the gladiators and commiserate together while the Republic dies. But we all will think of each other as gullible morons who let it happen too.

[conon394]

@RD

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publi...ca/index.shtml
"Mental Disorders in America

You know data w/o context or longitudinal history is kind of pointless

"Even though mental disorders are widespread in the population, the main burden of illness is concentrated in a much smaller proportion — about 6 percent, or 1 in 17 — who suffer from a serious mental illness."

So really only a tiny fraction of the population suffers from serious mental illness = how does that compare to 1960, 1945, 1885 1860? Dunno - do you? Certainly at least Women no longer suffer from Hysteria

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...tory-vibrators

Over half of Americans (52%) have had to make at least one major sacrifice in order to cover their rent or mortgage over the last three years, according to the “How Housing Matters Survey,” which was commissioned by the nonprofit John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation and carried out by Hart Research Associates. These sacrifices include getting a second job, deferring saving for retirement, cutting back on health care, running up credit card debt, or even moving to a less safe neighborhood or one with worse schools.

Again the problem is one of data its a survey only 2 years old and nothing to compare too...

http://www.macfound.org/press/press-...atters-survey/

On savings rates again how does that compare to 1850 or 1900?

--------------------

people in their thirties who are still living with Mom and Dad

Which is often a more sustainable economic situation. You know families used to live together quite a bit more the American nuclear family is often a silly ideal.

On top of that, we have up to 500K of illegal immigrants being allowed into the country and the government is not only not kicking them out, but facilitating with a 93% acceptance rate, bus transportation (dumping literally in states like Indiana) and actually asking Americans to house and mentor illegal aliens and cutting them a check if they accept.

Of god oh god no people willing to good work at jobs Americans don't want to do how terrible. Let's see now when my great father got off the boat he said - drunk, Polish, abusive, and skills - zero - will work for mob Yes. Oh wait they did not ask...

Now, do you think any of that shows any stability and cohesiveness, because I ain't seeing it, y'all? I'm seeing implosion. They say misery loves company...maybe Americans will think of themselves as all suffering serfs and ask for bread and circuses and we can all laugh and watch the gladiators and commiserate together while the Republic dies. But we all will think of each other as gullible morons who let it happen too.

Or maybe its easy to cherry pick ugly results at tail end of major recession. I do believe we have some serious sestemic issues to deal with but you have gone out of you way to build a glass darkly to look through.

[RubiconDecision]

America is seriously falling apart with deep persistent problems socially, mentally, physically, economically, spiritually, racially, politically. Did I leave anything out? Have you been reading a newspaper or periodical or watching the news? The worst part it's affecting the young, who can take a lot and keep on ticking, but when young people have no future, can't buy a home, can't afford to get married unless they live with mom and dad, then do you have any idea how that harms the country? It absolutely destabilizes it.

Now on top of that mess, we have a Drought of historic proportions in regions that normally generate a ton of produce, wheat, beef, etc for the rest of the country. I'm lucky. I'm not in that zone, thank God. But even here there's problems with the pig diarrhea disease. Big deal, so what? Why is RD talking about agriculture in a debate about cohesion. Well guess what, Dude? If food prices continue in this massive inflation, and the sizes of the boxes get smaller, then that harms everyone and destroys stability and is absolutely destructive when we have that and the above. It's stagflation and malaise. How could there be any sense of cohesion with that all going on?

What is it, 77% of Americans don't want illegal immigration as we already have a major problem with an enormous amount of people on public assistance and terrible unemployment and a healthcare crisis too. Now it's come out that the subsidies are not coming through, but the prices rose (more inflation) and so most people have HIGHER medical care costs that ever before, but no government subsides and making less money.

The American people are at a breaking point. There isn't any real cohesion. We're a very diverse group of ethnic people, in a political stalemate, business is in the toilet except for a ridiculously overpriced insane stock market. There's nothing on the forefront that will give us respite. It's a freaking recipe for disaster. We're literally staring into the Abyss and the least little thing could set it off.

Religion and Patriotism and Moms held America together. Now those won't as they're not valued like they were. We're held together by federal food assistance and Prozac and False Promises and Quantitative Easing and none of those are as strong as the original three.

America is a blistered festering wound, terribly infected, and putting a fresh band-aid on it does nothing anymore. I'm seeing gangrene set in and stink.

[Claudius Gothicus]

In complex societies like the American one political elites form themselves regardless of moral intention or origin, the normative system and institutional order does model their exclusion/inclusion practices and the level of communications that they establish with the rest of the population however. To be more precise: look at the educational backgrounds, look at the occupations or look at the surnames of those at congress, at the executive or at major positions within states, to deny that there's a political elite in the USA nowadays (no matter how open to recruits and competitive it is) would be as unfounded as claiming that it's very existence means that the political system is less legitimate or less accountable than other forms of organizing politicians.

[conon394]

America is seriously falling apart with deep persistent problems socially, mentally, physically, economically, spiritually, racially, politically. Did I leave anything out?

You seem to live in a different nation than I do.

Have you been reading a newspaper or periodical or watching the news? The worst part it's affecting the young, who can take a lot and keep on ticking, but when young people have no future, can't buy a home, can't afford to get married unless they live with mom and dad, then do you have any idea how that harms the country? It absolutely destabilizes it.

Well now it does not really cost all that much to get married. Home ownership is a risk like any other investment - do you need one. As half a couple with academic and professional careers necessitating frequent moves across the country it has proved a poor investment for my family. In hindsight renting would have been more practical. In point of fact that very ideal of labor mobility is one of the strengths of the US economy and the leave it to beaver model is actually a deterrent to that.

Now on top of that mess, we have a Drought of historic proportions in regions that normally generate a ton of produce, wheat, beef, etc for the rest of the country.

Well Mostly California and in fact that is artificial ag (in many cases) that has long needed a reckoning and it due time that localities and states depending on irrigation start to take water use seriously.

http://www.drought.gov/drought/

What is it, 77% of Americans don't want illegal immigration as we already have a major problem with an enormous amount of people on public assistance and terrible unemployment and a healthcare crisis too.

Asked the question how and it what context. People are mostly foolish and uniformed. When I see masses of unemployed New yorkers heading out for the back of nowhere USA to be seasonal agricultural workers at less than minimum wage I'll be impressed, and I still would not hire them because they likely could not tell horse from their ass or an apple tree. Of course we have people on public assistance that's what safety nets do when the economy is recovering from the worst economic down turn in almost a century.

The American people are at a breaking point. There isn't any real cohesion. We're a very diverse group of ethnic people, in a political stalemate, business is in the toilet except for a ridiculously overpriced insane stock market. There's nothing on the forefront that will give us respite. It's a freaking recipe for disaster. We're literally staring into the Abyss and the least little thing could set it off.

OK dude you really are over the top here. Political deadlock is built into the system and we have had it for 100s of years. We are stepping back from the drug war. We are getting closer to not needing to care much from odious oil rich mid east kingdoms/dictatorships. Immigration helps us keep a nice balanced demography that can sustain people who continue have longer average live spans.

Its a a good thing you were not Lincoln after first bull rUn - your answer would have OK its all crap let's just ask the UK to take us back.

[Ciciro]

What is it, 77% of Americans don't want illegal immigration as we already have a major problem with an enormous amount of people on public assistance and terrible unemployment and a healthcare crisis too.

Dude, Americans have never like any sort of immigration long before the so called "welfare state".

[RubiconDecision]

Dude, Americans have never like any sort of immigration long before the so called "welfare state".

I guess what's most amusing is I discussed the Irish and discrimination from the English immigrants who arrived first. Way to go, Ace.

[Ciciro]

I guess what's most amusing is I discussed the Irish and discrimination from the English immigrants who arrived first. Way to go, Ace.

Oh, I did notice. You just failed to notice the similarity between the two. 77%? Whoop de freaking doo. There was once an entire party dedicated to purifying the government of Catholics, that got 26% of the votes in a presidential election, and actually got into a few offices.

[RubiconDecision]

Oh, I did notice. You just failed to notice the similarity between the two. 77%? Whoop de freaking doo. There was once an entire party dedicated to purifying the government of Catholics, that got 26% of the votes in a presidential election, and actually got into a few offices.

I see, so despite the fact that we have laws regarding immigration, we allow the president to allow anyone in the country. We allow the President to not only break the law, but to make federal employees break the law, and to ship illegal immigrants where ever they choose, and to house illegal immigrants in facilities that most certainly break laws.

Question: who pays for it? Oh I get it, the President gets his pet project done and we spend more money we don't have.

And that everyone else has to immigrate into the US by legal means, and I'm pretty up on this since I'm assisted refugees for years, as well family members legally immigrating into the US, but those in Mexico and Central America can flood the Southern border at will. One county in Arizona had 120,000 illegal aliens. Now what would you do if the governor? It's a flagrant violation of multiple laws?

This is why there is no cohesion in America anymore. Some can flout the law, while others cannot. That goes for immigrants and that goes for Presidents and Congress. It's a breakdown of basic law and order.

How are we supposed to take care of them? Where will they work if our legal citizens who have education and experience cannot find jobs? How will we provide public assistance with less government revenues? Do you think that up to 500,000 illegal aliens will have a stabilizing effect and add to the cohesion of the country? What it's likely to do is cause real issues of bigotry. Just freaking brilliant. Never let a crisis go to waste.

Honestly, what happened to common sense in America, because I'm not seeing it?